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2014 Official Orange Mane Mock Draft Discussion/Alpha player list

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  • Originally posted by BMORE View Post
    You wanted to take me to the movies a few hours ago, now your ready to join OBF1 and BowlenBalls' anti BMORE group!
    Not hating the player, just hating the game -- you make good picks and do your homework, and I'm glad you're participating in the OM Mock.

    However, it's general etiquette to have your homework done beforehand, and pull the trigger when you're on the clock. You took 11 hours and 59 minutes for your first pick and 11 hours and 30 minutes for your 2nd rounder -- if we all did that, we would only be in the 3rd round by the time the real draft rolled around....

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    • Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
      I agree! Though I think he's interesting as a late 1st too. UNC's Pro Day is Tuesday, Martin will probably only do the Short Shuttle, and sit on the rest of his drills from the Combine, but I'm curious to see how many teams show up, if the Broncos and Bengals go, how Martin looks in his positional workouts, if they try him at OLB, and the hype, if any, that comes out of his Pro Day. I'm having trouble seeing this guy stay behind Ealy and Crichton as a prospect on all the draft boards.
      Right. Yeah, there's no reason Martin should be behind Ealy and Crichton. I would also consider putting him ahead of Ford (who is a one-year wonder 5th year Senior). I didn't even know Martin existed. Could use a lot more polishing, specifically on pass-moves and leverage, but he has a ton of tackles and double-digit sacks. Similar to Chandler Jones, but Martin is faster and doesn't know how to use his hands as well.

      I generally don't like one year wonders, but compared to the other guys, his production is WAY better, and he actually has the physical tools to improve. Seems like he is still a basketball player developing into a football player, but he could make a big leap.

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      • Originally posted by BowlenBall View Post
        Not hating the player, just hating the game -- you make good picks and do your homework, and I'm glad you're participating in the OM Mock.

        However, it's general etiquette to have your homework done beforehand, and pull the trigger when you're on the clock. You took 11 hours and 59 minutes for your first pick and 11 hours and 30 minutes for your 2nd rounder -- if we all did that, we would only be in the 3rd round by the time the real draft rolled around....
        Noted, I will try to move quicker.

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        • Martin had almost as many tackles this year, as Dee Ford has in his entire 5 year college career.
          Last edited by pricejj; 03-23-2014, 10:51 AM.

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          • Originally posted by pricejj View Post
            Martin had almost as many tackles this year, as Dee Ford has in his entire 5 year college career.
            i'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China? I don't necessarily like Ford over Martin (depends on the scheme), but I think it's a fallacy to base much DE/pass rusher analysis on aggregate tackle #s.

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            • Originally posted by BroncosfanGuy View Post
              i'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China? I don't necessarily like Ford over Martin (depends on the scheme), but I think it's a fallacy to base much DE/pass rusher analysis on aggregate tackle #s.
              Price goes off of raw numbers and has a set of generalities before he watches them. Price cares, but he needs to watch some tape first!

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              • Originally posted by BroncosfanGuy View Post
                i'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China? I don't necessarily like Ford over Martin (depends on the scheme), but I think it's a fallacy to base much DE/pass rusher analysis on aggregate tackle #s.
                Well production does matter but Ford and Martin play different roles so that is a moot point to compare the two.
                Speed rushers don't get a ton of tackles in most cases because their job is to get up the field and get to the QB.
                Martin is a guy I have really come to like lately and is someone that I could see the Broncos taking in the 2nd for the DE spot.
                I think he has a chance to be a complete DE with good pass rush skills.

                I like both players but a guy like Ford in the first would be somewhat meaningless to us as Von and Ware play his role. So he would be primarily a passing down guy for us.

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                • Originally posted by Lestat View Post
                  Well production does matter but Ford and Martin play different roles so that is a moot point to compare the two.
                  Speed rushers don't get a ton of tackles in most cases because their job is to get up the field and get to the QB.
                  Martin is a guy I have really come to like lately and is someone that I could see the Broncos taking in the 2nd for the DE spot.
                  I think he has a chance to be a complete DE with good pass rush skills.

                  I like both players but a guy like Ford in the first would be somewhat meaningless to us as Von and Ware play his role. So he would be primarily a passing down guy for us.
                  Martin to play LDE?

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                  • Originally posted by BroncosfanGuy View Post
                    i'm not sure what that has to do with the price of tea in China? I don't necessarily like Ford over Martin (depends on the scheme), but I think it's a fallacy to base much DE/pass rusher analysis on aggregate tackle #s.
                    You have to have the complete package to be a starter in the NFL, otherwise you're a liability. Rarely do players have more production in the NFL than they did in college.

                    To me, Ford projects as a 40 tackle, 8 sack (at most) type of guy in the NFL and a massive liability in the run game. A slower Barkevious Mingo. A smaller, less-impactful version of Sean Phillips (who was a 4th round pick).

                    Some of these so-called scouts think that anybody who can bust off for 10 sacks one year in college, is worthy of a 1st round pick. Not so.

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                    • Originally posted by BMORE View Post
                      Martin to play LDE?
                      I would love that but you have Wolfe so that complicates matters as he likely doesn't start.
                      Ware,Knighton,Sly and Wolfe are likely the base 4-3 DL.(No, not forgetting Vick, I just do not see Sly giving up his starting job)
                      You can move Ware and Von around to DE and LB in different situations.
                      Wolfe can move inside on certain downs then you slide Martin into a DE spot to fill the spot vacated by either Ware or Wolfe.

                      He's been very good against the run in his career at UNC and gets TFL's at a decent clip. Now his issue is consistency as he was always one to flash brilliant talent but it didn't become consistent until his was a senior.
                      Which is normally a big red flag for me. But I think his talent under this staff would be huge. Pair him with Q and I think the future pass rush will be epic.

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                      • Originally posted by pricejj View Post
                        You have to have the complete package to be a starter in the NFL, otherwise you're a liability. Rarely do players have more production in the NFL than they did in college.

                        To me, Ford projects as a 40 tackle, 8 sack (at most) type of guy in the NFL and a massive liability in the run game. A slower Barkevious Mingo. A smaller, less-impactful version of Sean Phillips (who was a 4th round pick).

                        Some of these so-called scouts think that anybody who can bust off for 10 sacks one year in college, is worthy of a 1st round pick. Not so.
                        In fairness though. This is the first season in which Ford had a good coach.
                        Chizik was horrible as a teacher.

                        But your analysis is pretty much spot on. That is what makes me leery of guys who flash in a contract or draft year without previous production.
                        I do however think that Ford will be a good NFL pro. But he needs to be in a 3-4 aggressive scheme.

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                        • yeah, I agree the production in college should be there. I disagree, however, that total tackles should be used as the indicator of whether a guy can rush the passer--which is what Ford would likely be asked to do in the pros. I'd rather see TFL, hurries, sacks, and whether he can fight off a block and how he can beat the OT off the ball. Total tackles are contingent on a number of factors (scheme, tackle opps--Auburn likely has fewer tackle opps than a team with a poor offense and defense, and supporting cast) and aren't something I'm going to spend a lot of time looking at when looking for a DE or pass rusher.

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                          • Well.... This has become a bit of a stand still to be honest

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                            • I'm actually getting close to the point where I don't check the draft forum very often

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                              • Originally posted by phibacka31 View Post
                                I'm actually getting close to the point where I don't check the draft forum very often
                                Just give someone your cell and they can text you when your pick is up. I gave mine to Elway, I assume I can trust him not to share my number.

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