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Kyler Murray, NOT even an UDFA for me.

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  • Kyler Murray, NOT even an UDFA for me.

    Posting this in the draft thread because the opinions and thoughts I care about are found here. I hate this guy as a football player. The reasons why are detailed throughout the long analysis below, the final straw being in the Alabama game. If you take the time to read it, and want to discuss my analysis, I'm game. Nothing is going to change my mind though. I'd rather have Keenum as the Broncos QB. I'd rather have Kyle Orton. I'd definitely rather have Tebow.





    QB KYLER MURRAY OKLAHOMA

    Texas G1 (2018): Playing in a shotgun only scheme. He’s tiny, both in height and thickness. Quick and sudden with the read option, good speed, not quite Lamar Jackson, but relatively close. 50/50 back shoulder fade to the WR up the seam for a 30 yard TD, good catch between two defenders, feel like if either the safety coming over or the CB would have played the ball, that might have turned out badly. I’m not even sure Murray saw the safety at all. On review, they ruled the WR didn’t maintain possession, no catch or TD. Still counts for prospect analysis though. 5 yard TD on playaction swing pass where Murray also ran towards the line to freeze the defense before hitting the uncovered RB in the flat for the score. That’s a legit aspect of his game due to his running ability, it’s going to cause headaches for LBs and safeties. Good accuracy on 20 yard corner route. A lot of misdirection plays that lead to open receivers on quick hitting routes, not reading the defense at all, most of these are determined pre-snap. Playaction pass to the TE up the seam which was picked off by the safety. Murray did the fake, saw the LB bite up and the TE get behind him, and just threw it, did not even attempt to read the safety. That’s twice now on down field throws up the seam where he’s not reading the defense. Looked pretty gun shy on the next possession, had a play at the 5:10 mark or so in the 1st quarter where he had the WR with two steps on a Go route up the sideline and he pulled it down. Think the INT rattled him a little. 10 yard out route, arm strength looks solid, ball sailed a bit on him but the WR made a nice catch. Making some curious decisions, pulled down a primary read bubble screen which was wide open, and ran around eventually taking a 10 yard sack. Followed that up with a scramble on the next play but intentionally went down when a DL touched his leg. I don’t like any of this so far. Tried to scramble on 3rd and long, he’s close to Lamar Jackson in terms of suddenness and quickness, but he doesn’t have Jackson’s blinding long speed. Murray can run fast, but it’s not difference making speed, probably 4.45. Read option play with a RB open in the flat similar to the first TD of the game, Murray this time threw it ten feet over his head with no defender in sight. Tried to hit a quick curl on 3rd and 3, DE swatted the ball down at the line. Several effective QB scrambles, generally goes down intentionally prior to contact. TD pass that was tipped by the DE that still fluttered to a WR uncovered on a slant for a 5 yard TD. There was nothing impressive about that first half at all. Moonball to a wide open WR Brown up the sideline for a long Go route TD. Accuracy was good, had him so wide open, he kind of just lofted it and let the WR adjust his speed to run under it. That throw would not have worked if there was a deep safety. Fumbled on a scramble, was waving the ball around in one hand as he ran around, it just popped out of his hand. Small hands? 50/50 ball on seam route to blanketed WR in double coverage that was both almost picked off and almost caught. Dumb throw, but it was largely on point. I would say he has good accuracy. Best quality so far has been his quickness and elusiveness when scrambling, he is really slippery in the open field. Led the WR too far on 10 yard slant over the middle, one of the few inaccurate passes so far. CB blitz, CB grabbed his foot, he went down for the sack. He doesn’t even try to hide the fact that if you touch him, he just goes down. There is protecting yourself from injury, and then there is being a giant puss, especially when your team is down big. Leaning towards the latter at this point. Great throw while scrambling to the sideline across his body to the TE up the seam for a 15 yard TD. Most impressive throw of the night, that was a laser beam, perfect accuracy, thrown before the TE was even looking. 70 yard TD scramble up the sideline, speed looks good, not elite, still thinking 4.45, which is obviously all you need if nobody is faster on the defense on that side of the field. Final thoughts on this tape, he doesn’t know how to read defenses yet, he’s not asked to most of the time, the offense is designed to have wide open WRs on short routes. I hate this offense, same reason I didn’t trust Mayfield. How much is the success the scheme, how much the player? Hard to tell. Not going to penalize Murray for running this offense though, I learned that lesson last year. He had one impressive throw the entire game, two if you count the wide open bomb. Accuracy mostly looked fine. Arm strength mostly looked fine. Decision making not so much. Far more effective as a scrambler than a passer in this game.

    Texas G2 (2018): Playing in shotgun only scheme. Second go round against this defense, lets see what Murray has figured out. Playaction, solid throw on wide open slant for 20 yards. Confusion on first series, had to burn a time out. Designed QB run, stuffed for a loss. Interception off a 20 yard crossing route in the end zone, CB made a nice play to swat the ball and it went straight to another DB. Unrelated penalty bailed out that INT, still counts to me though. Replay from behind Murray showed the ball was thrown inaccurately late and behind the WR. Superb bomb on a Go route up the seam, trajectory was good, arm strength was good, accuracy was perfect, and WR dropped a probable TD. That was 50 yards mostly on a rope. Very impressive throw. Murray making some audibles at the line, he’s trying to read the defense. Go route up the sideline, ball badly underthrown and off target, but PI bailed them out. Need to send CB Boyd some flowers, has had 3 major penalties in this quarter, including the one that wiped out the INT earlier. Designed QB draw on 3rd and long, able to convert, slid down at the end as usual. Offense is in some disarray, have now used all their timeouts in the 1st quarter due to not being able to get the plays called. Ridiculously high lob ball on a fade route, was catchable though, but unnecessarily difficult to track. Playaction, deep post, ball a little underthrown, CB able to close and cause the WR to not catch the ball. That’s a 75 yard TD if thrown out in front of the WR. Really nice play where they made the defense think Murray was on a designed QB sweep, and he pulled up at the last moment and hit the WR who had snuck out on a wheel route up the sideline for a chunk gain. He throws a great ball when rolling out and on the move. Might be more accurate outside the pocket. Nice job avoiding rush while in the pocket but then ran out of bounds for a sack and 5 yard loss, really needed to just throw the ball away. Perfect 30 yard TD throw on post route from the slot, sat in the pocket on that one and put it right on the money. He has some bad throws at times, but I think he’s mostly an accurate passer, arm strength is definitely plus, though that last TD had a good deal of touch as well. Accurate throw on 15 yard out to wide open receiver on sideline. Another accurate throw on 15 yard comeback route to the sideline in two minute drill before half. 10 yard TD on a slant to cap off an excellent two minute drill drive. Murray went through multiple reads on that play before settling on the slot WR. Everything about that last drive was extremely impressive. Great job sidestepping blitz and hitting open WR who settled in zone across the middle. Great accuracy on 50 yard Go route, think that should have been caught for a TD but WR slowed on his route. One of the bigger concerns I have so far is that he holds the ball at times a really long time and can look indecisive in throwing into tight coverage, he takes some sacks he doesn’t need to take. The OL being elite definitely helps him, but some of this is probably just due to only starting for one season. Still, he needs to process faster, make definitive decisions, and just throw at a quicker pace. It’s not every play it’s a problem, but it’s frequent enough. Panicked under pressure on 3rd and long and threw a wounded flutter duck up for grabs that somehow wasn’t picked off. Inaccurate on crossing route, just led the WR too much. The 10-15 yard crossing routes are where he’s had the most trouble for whatever reason. Overthrew TE on wheel route down sideline, had a step, would have been a TD. Accuracy has been off so far in the second half. Bad miss on dig route on 3rd and 6, ball well behind the WR, I think the DT was able to get a finger on it, Murray doesn’t usually miss that badly. Nice accuracy and touch on 15 yard out route. Solid throw on 15 yard comeback route, WR was wide open though, turned that into a massive gain with YAC and then fumbled at the very end near the goal line. Making some key throws on 3rd down late in the game to seal the victory, nothing amazing, just mixing his athleticism with pulling up the LBs and then lobbing a throw over them to a wide open WR for short gains that move the sticks. That’s part of his game though, you have to come up to try and keep him from scrambling and that opens up passing opportunities. He’s doing a good job of using that skillset. Perfect throw on corner fade to the slot WR for a 15 yard TD to ice the game. Flawless touch throw from the pocket. Final thoughts on this tape are that Murray is mostly accurate, but struggles on crossing routes at all levels of the field. Accuracy is very good on short throws and on most vertical routes. He showed the ability to read the defense at times, thought he had a lot more freedom to change the play than in the first Texas game, and he did make some audibles at the line. Had some problems with the DL swatting his passes on quicker, shorter routes, no problems on deeper routes where he could drift back or roll out in the pocket. His arm release point does work against him when he had to throw from up in the pocket. He is insanely protective when he scrambles or feels pressure, will take sacks or run out of bounds rather than risk getting hit. Regardless, still an electric and elusive runner when he scrambles, his quickness is elite. Biggest question is probably decision making, he panics when under heavy pressure, generally just takes the sack or throws the ball haphazardly up for grabs. Luckily, he’s not under heavy pressure all that often due to an NFL caliber OL. So far, I’m seeing a guy that can play QB and brings a good running dynamic that opens up some options other QBs don’t have, but not seeing an elite, can’t miss QB talent at all. Mostly just a good athlete that has decent accuracy with a plus arm, but also a QB that makes poor decisions and panics under pass rush pressure. That’s fairly normal, but he has the benefit of a stellar offensive scheme designed to keep defenses off balance and on their heels and an elite OL that keeps pressure to a minimum. I don’t think Murray would succeed at all if forced to play on a team like Northwestern where Clayton Thorson gets killed almost every snap. The trick is to project how Murray will do in an NFL offense where he’ll face twice the amount of pressure he did in college at a minimum. If you look at his snaps against a single pass rush pressure, he makes them miss and makes a play. It’s when it all breaks down and multiple guys are coming at him that he panics and makes mistakes or fetals and takes the sack. That’s what I am worried about, I feel like some of the tape is a mirage because everything is so perfect at times in terms of protection and wide open receivers. Same concern I had about Mayfield as well, and so far, he looks to be the real deal. Still think the concern is legit and valid though.

    Alabama (2018); Playing shotgun only scheme. Still prioritizing not taking a hit over maximizing a scramble. I get the long game concept of this, but on his first scramble of the night for example, he had another 5-10 yards he could have easily picked up by cutting inside, instead he sees the defender coming and immediately races to the sideline to try and avoid getting hit. I hate that about him. I hate it even more when he just falls down and fetals to take a sack under pressure instead of throwing the ball away or trying to break a tackle attempt. And speaking of that, in the previous games I’ve outlined how he just falls down at first contact, on the second offensive play of this game the OLB grabs his jersey and Murray falls down. Bounced a swing pass to the WR open in the flat, not sure what that was about, just kind of short armed the throw. That’s a pass he usually makes though. Stop and Go deep route attempt, overthrew WR, no problem with that, missing long is safe. Playaction 15 yard pass to TE up the seam for leaping catch, thought the ball placement and arm strength were rock solid on that throw. Not reading the defense at all early in this game, it’s all-predetermined quick throws, some are even into triple coverage. This is a step back from the second Texas game. Solid back shoulder throw on corner route for chunk gain, tough to tell for sure if he was going for the backshoulder or not intentionally, they haven’t done much back shoulder throws in the other games, though they do throw corner routes a lot. I suspect that was an underthrow that just worked out. Quick slant, batted down at the line. That has been a problem in every one of these games, any time he does a quick pass where he’s up in the pocket, the ball gets swatted. That ball in particular was just released too low, it was almost going to hit his RT in the back of his head. Definitely an intended back shoulder throw along the sideline to convert a 4th and 2 on a 10 yard gain, nice pass. Alright, so even on the last play of the half when he’s scrambling well down the field making something happen, he knows the clock has run out, instead of cutting inside and just seeing if he can race to the end zone and make people miss, he runs out of bounds and ends the half. I hate that. He has no desire to put his body on the line to try and make one amazing play. Every game I hate that about him. You watch John Elway almost die for a TD or first downs, you’ll never get that from Murray. And regardless of all the other debates about his potential, I’ve decided right this second that I will never want this guy as a QB for my team. There is no doubt in my mind, he puts himself first. I don’t want players like that. It’s half time of this game, and I’m going to stop here. This guy is not going to be on my draft board. I would not sign him as an undrafted free agent. Does he have the physical ability to play QB in the NFL? Yes, the arm and accuracy are good enough. Does his size hurt and limit him? Yes, saw it in every one of these games. Does he have the mental ability to play QB and progress through reads? Don’t know, but he didn’t do it in two of these games, and only did it a handful of times in the second Texas game. Most of his throws are determined pre-snap by the scheme. Does he have the heart and desire to put his body on the line and put the team and winning above all else? No. Very confident in that. For whichever team drafts him, I think it would be a catastrophic mistake. Especially if a team uses a first round selection on him.
    Last edited by Mat'hir Uth Gan; 02-13-2019, 06:48 AM. Reason: Spelling/Grammar

  • #2
    i cant say I have done in depth analysis on him, but from what I saw last year he has a first round worthy arm and his touch is amazing.

    Maybe just me but I prefer him not taking those hits.

    It will be pretty huge for him at the combine to be closer to 200 than 185 so we will see what he looks like there.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's not about not taking hits, it's about being a giant p***Y every play in every game. He'll take a loss if it means avoiding a hit. There are times to play smart and go out of bounds, and there are times when your team is losing and you need every yard to try and squeeze out a win, at those times you lay it all on the line. You don't fetal or run out of bounds and accept defeat. In both loses this year, he was more concerned with protecting his body than winning the game.

      Do you want that type of personality as your QB?

      On physical skills alone, he's not a 1st round caliber QB prospect either. I have no idea why the hype train is so high on him. But then, half the QBs drafted in the first round shouldn't be, so who knows. In terms of talent, I would have slotted him ahead of Daniel Jones, in the late 2nd-3rd round range.

      One thing I can say for sure, his touch is not amazing. Not even close. His accuracy is not amazing, not even close. He missed a ton of wide open throws in those games, I documented them. He had awful touch on many of throws, I documented them. He is mostly accurate, just like every legit QB prospect outside of Lamar Jackson, and he makes some amazing and perfect throws at times, just like every NFL QB prospect including Lamar Jackson. For whatever reason, people are completely ignoring his warts and really focusing on his highlight reel plays. That's insanity to me.

      And I'm not even digging into his height, which is a problem. His hand size, which resulted in a fumble while just running around in Texas Game 1, or any other physical aspect to him. Just his ability to throw the ball accurately. He's fine, but he's not special. And people are touting him as special. The only thing special about him is his elusiveness as a scrambler. He's a more accurate Lamar Jackson, but how much of that is due to scheme and a great OL. When the WRs weren't wide open, he struggled with INTs and DBs swatting his balls away. He doesn't really read safeties at all. When he was under heavy pressure, he would fetal, run out of bounds for a sack, or throw the ball up for grabs. So, how would he have produced if he was forced to throw to tight windows and was under pressure every snap like Stidham, Thorson, and some of the other prospects? Judging by the samples in these games, he would have been a turnover machine if he had to deal with what those QBs did consistently.


      He played two real defenses this year, 3 if you count TCU, and he lost two of those games and generally struggled in both losses. What if he played in the SEC, BIG 10, or even the ACC? Would he have even finished .500?

      Comment


      • #4
        Nice write up. really appreciate the time you put into these.

        You've really emphasized the point that he is way overprotective when there is a possibility of getting hit. I would normally agree with your assesment that this is a problme, but in this case...he was a signed baseball player, with an agent (Scott Boras) who probably went to great lengths to instill in his client that there were millions of reasons not to take those hits. I would venture to say that in the NFL, fully committed to football, with a contract signed...he'll be a bit more willing to play those situations out better.

        You've mentioned the swatted balls....I read an article somewhere....his batted ball rate was at or below the other high end QB prospects...that seems off to me..I'll try and find it and post a link.

        Unlike you....I see Murray as the top prospect in this draft. I had Mayfield first in last years. I agree it isn't always easy to separate the player from the system. (part of why so many didn't get the eval on Mahomes right)

        I maintain, that the Arizona Cardinals had a lot of internal meetings about their team and direction this offseason...and part of that was evaluting this kid and deciding he was special....then deciding to fire the coach...then deciding that Kliff Kingsbury should be coach.....after he had signed to be the OC at SoCal. They've already basically made up their mind.....

        And I think they are going to proceed to make the right call here and take Murray 1/1.

        Comment


        • #5
          Maybe if AZ takes Murray 1/1 as is rumored they can trade Rosen to DEN for the 10th pick.

          Comment


          • #6
            No QB is going top 5 unless someone trades up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
              Nice write up. really appreciate the time you put into these.

              You've really emphasized the point that he is way overprotective when there is a possibility of getting hit. I would normally agree with your assesment that this is a problme, but in this case...he was a signed baseball player, with an agent (Scott Boras) who probably went to great lengths to instill in his client that there were millions of reasons not to take those hits. I would venture to say that in the NFL, fully committed to football, with a contract signed...he'll be a bit more willing to play those situations out better.

              You've mentioned the swatted balls....I read an article somewhere....his batted ball rate was at or below the other high end QB prospects...that seems off to me..I'll try and find it and post a link.

              Unlike you....I see Murray as the top prospect in this draft. I had Mayfield first in last years. I agree it isn't always easy to separate the player from the system. (part of why so many didn't get the eval on Mahomes right)

              I maintain, that the Arizona Cardinals had a lot of internal meetings about their team and direction this offseason...and part of that was evaluting this kid and deciding he was special....then deciding to fire the coach...then deciding that Kliff Kingsbury should be coach.....after he had signed to be the OC at SoCal. They've already basically made up their mind.....

              And I think they are going to proceed to make the right call here and take Murray 1/1.
              No problem with your stance on the prospect, just as valid as mine. Your point about maybe playing it extra safe due to the baseball contract is legit. But, even if so, I can't get behind a football player that while his teammates are killing themselves to try and win, he's going to step out bounds and not put his own body on the line time and again. Practical and financial reasons or not, that's not appealing to me at all as a personality trait. If you're going to play a team game, put the team first.

              I'm not even going to dig into the fact that he lied to the A's organization when he gave them assurances that if they took him in the 1st Round, he was going to commit to baseball. I don't like people that go back on their word because they discovered additional leverage at a later date either.

              So, is he a selfish liar or is he a pussy? To me, if he loves football, he says to hell with it and plays balls to the wall, to win, to never lose, and to leave everything he has on the field. He didn't do that, so he can't love football. Yet, he's now saying he does. I don't trust him as a man, I don't trust him as a football player, and I would not trust him as a teammate. If I'm a lead blocker and we're going down the sideline and a LB is charging in, do I take that guy head on and get a concussion so Murray can keep going down the field for a TD? In my mind, there's a good chance he goes out of bounds no matter what I do because he wants to avoid a chance of getting hit. I can't have a teammate like that. I imagine there are a lot of players that are going to have a problem with him if he continues to go out of his way to avoid contact at the expense of team success.

              Now, ALL of that personal feeling stuff aside. Just judging him on his merits on the football field as a QB, I can't imagine someone takes him #1 overall. He's just not good enough for that. He's not accurate enough, he doesn't handle pressure well enough, he's not a transcendent talent at the position. He's just a guy with a good arm and decent enough accuracy that has some wiggle when he scrambles. Nothing about that should be a #1 overall selection or even a 1st round selection. Now, he is a million times better than Lamar Jackson, and Jackson went in the 1st Round, so obviously there are stupid teams out there that will overdraft QBs. They did it with Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Blake Bortles, and a boatload of others, including Jackson last year. So, I fully expect Murray to go in the 1st round, I think it's going to be an absolute disaster for whoever takes him. Especially if they trade up. And that's even assuming you are right and he starts to play with toughness and leaves it all on the field. He's got a long ways to go to approach the type of man and QB Russell Wilson is.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SoCalBronco View Post
                Maybe if AZ takes Murray 1/1 as is rumored they can trade Rosen to DEN for the 10th pick.
                Yeah, I would do that in a second. Rosen needs a good OL and/or a quick hitting scheme, I still think he compares to Peyton Manning as a polished cerebral type QB. He has neither the scheme nor the OL in Arizona, but he did prove his toughness at least, getting physically battered game after game and coming back for more. That was a big question for some about him coming out that should now be erased.


                Now, our scheme should fit him, but the OL needs some work. If you don't fix the OL, Rosen is going to struggle. That's true for most pocket QBs though.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                  No problem with your stance on the prospect, just as valid as mine. Your point about maybe playing it extra safe due to the baseball contract is legit. But, even if so, I can't get behind a football player that while his teammates are killing themselves to try and win, he's going to step out bounds and not put his own body on the line time and again. Practical and financial reasons or not, that's not appealing to me at all as a personality trait. If you're going to play a team game, put the team first.

                  I'm not even going to dig into the fact that he lied to the A's organization when he gave them assurances that if they took him in the 1st Round, he was going to commit to baseball. I don't like people that go back on their word because they discovered additional leverage at a later date either.

                  So, is he a selfish liar or is he a p***Y? To me, if he loves football, he says to hell with it and plays balls to the wall, to win, to never lose, and to leave everything he has on the field. He didn't do that, so he can't love football. Yet, he's now saying he does. I don't trust him as a man, I don't trust him as a football player, and I would not trust him as a teammate. If I'm a lead blocker and we're going down the sideline and a LB is charging in, do I take that guy head on and get a concussion so Murray can keep going down the field for a TD? In my mind, there's a good chance he goes out of bounds no matter what I do because he wants to avoid a chance of getting hit. I can't have a teammate like that. I imagine there are a lot of players that are going to have a problem with him if he continues to go out of his way to avoid contact at the expense of team success.

                  Now, ALL of that personal feeling stuff aside. Just judging him on his merits on the football field as a QB, I can't imagine someone takes him #1 overall. He's just not good enough for that. He's not accurate enough, he doesn't handle pressure well enough, he's not a transcendent talent at the position. He's just a guy with a good arm and decent enough accuracy that has some wiggle when he scrambles. Nothing about that should be a #1 overall selection or even a 1st round selection. Now, he is a million times better than Lamar Jackson, and Jackson went in the 1st Round, so obviously there are stupid teams out there that will overdraft QBs. They did it with Blaine Gabbert, Christian Ponder, Blake Bortles, and a boatload of others, including Jackson last year. So, I fully expect Murray to go in the 1st round, I think it's going to be an absolute disaster for whoever takes him. Especially if they trade up. And that's even assuming you are right and he starts to play with toughness and leaves it all on the field. He's got a long ways to go to approach the type of man and QB Russell Wilson is.
                  So, you don't like him?

                  I think you are missing the athletic ability that by far and away the biggest factor in this. Then you add that he is far more accurate than a guy like Vick, then I feel like its not as much as a crap shoot that you are making it out to be.

                  I appreciate your take, but were those the only 3 games you watched?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I like Murray as a prospect, but I see everything MUG sees. He can't read defenses, and he's much more raw as a passer than Mayfield was. I don't really hold the avoidance of hits against him though, given his size. That's 100% the way he needs to play in the NFL. That said, I definitely don't get a strong sense that the kid has the fire most great QB's tend to.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SoonerBronco View Post
                      So, you don't like him?

                      I think you are missing the athletic ability that by far and away the biggest factor in this. Then you add that he is far more accurate than a guy like Vick, then I feel like its not as much as a crap shoot that you are making it out to be.

                      I appreciate your take, but were those the only 3 games you watched?
                      Yes, those were the only three games with legit NFL defensive talent at all levels. You might be able to make a case for TCU (not really).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Murray as a prospect is definitely going to be a not for everybody type of taste.

                        Haskins and Murray are each going to cause spirited discussions due to their statuses as 1 year starters.

                        Murray to me is as good a prospect as any other QB in this draft and has a very high ceiling. The question with Murray will be how much are you willing to invest in his success?

                        You are not going to run a pure under center in the pocket offense with Murray.
                        He is going to best best served in a shotgun, bootleg, pistol and spread offense to help stress the defense.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post
                          Murray as a prospect is definitely going to be a not for everybody type of taste.

                          Haskins and Murray are each going to cause spirited discussions due to their statuses as 1 year starters.

                          Murray to me is as good a prospect as any other QB in this draft and has a very high ceiling. The question with Murray will be how much are you willing to invest in his success?

                          You are not going to run a pure under center in the pocket offense with Murray.
                          He is going to best best served in a shotgun, bootleg, pistol and spread offense to help stress the defense.

                          Mostly agree with the bolded statement. I don't think any of these QBs are amazing, but I like quite a few of them. Stidham and Jackson are my two favorites, but I wouldn't blink an eye if someone argued Lock, Grier, Thorson, Murray, Finley, or Haskins were as good. Daniel Jones is kind of where I draw the line.

                          I think in terms of upside, you have to argue that the prospects with actual elite traits have the highest upside. To me that's only two guys. Tyree Jackson due to the arm, and Kyler Murray due to the elusiveness and athleticism. And for me, only one of those really has to do with throwing the football. So, Jackson would be my highest upside QB in this draft by far.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                            Mostly agree with the bolded statement. I don't think any of these QBs are amazing, but I like quite a few of them. Stidham and Jackson are my two favorites, but I wouldn't blink an eye if someone argued Lock, Grier, Thorson, Murray, Finley, or Haskins were as good. Daniel Jones is kind of where I draw the line.

                            I think in terms of upside, you have to argue that the prospects with actual elite traits have the highest upside. To me that's only two guys. Tyree Jackson due to the arm, and Kyler Murray due to the elusiveness and athleticism. And for me, only one of those really has to do with throwing the football. So, Jackson would be my highest upside QB in this draft by far.
                            My thought process is more along the lines of what has the QB done in college, what does he project to do in the NFL and how does his potential correlate to a creative offensive scheme?

                            To me, you can do more with Lock, Murray, Stidham than with most anyone else in the draft.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
                              Mostly agree with the bolded statement. I don't think any of these QBs are amazing, but I like quite a few of them. Stidham and Jackson are my two favorites, but I wouldn't blink an eye if someone argued Lock, Grier, Thorson, Murray, Finley, or Haskins were as good. Daniel Jones is kind of where I draw the line.

                              I think in terms of upside, you have to argue that the prospects with actual elite traits have the highest upside. To me that's only two guys. Tyree Jackson due to the arm, and Kyler Murray due to the elusiveness and athleticism. And for me, only one of those really has to do with throwing the football. So, Jackson would be my highest upside QB in this draft by far.
                              Err...Lock has an elite arm too MUG. Though I actually think elite physical traits don't really mean that much on their own. If we look at all the the all-time greats few of them had many, if any, elite physical traits.

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