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Broncos Offense has actually gotten better since StL game.

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Doogansquest View Post
    They will worry about next season when this one is over.

    Regardless of what ails Mr. Manning, the team is still moving and scoring as efficiently as they were before St. Louis. Regardless of what we see (or think we see, and then use only circumstantial evidence which only supports our predetermined opinions), Denver is scoring as efficiently, while also shortening the game and playing better defense.

    That is better for playoff football. Manning, if truly suffering inner thigh damage (lol), won't suddenly be so bad that Denver stops doing what they've done as effectively as before - win.

    And again, they are now playing a brand of football more conducive to successful playoff runs. How it looked while working on the kinks in the regular season doesn't matter. I repeat: IT DOESN'T MATTER. Ravens and Panthers were ugly in the regular season as well, and both nearly missed the playoffs. Denver went 12-4 with an absurdly difficult schedule and a week 4 bye.

    What we've seen is irrelevant. What we think is happening is laughably full of ignorance; and again, irrelevant. It has nothing to do with denial or contrasting colored glasses. Denver changed up everything on offense, and still went 6-1 during that stretch against a bunch of teams desperately fighting for playoff spots.

    Think big picture: Denver is playing the right kind of football for the playoffs (3 times to drive home this fact).

    Unjustified nervousness over a stupid football game is creating this conversation.

    @TonyR: Until Vinovich took over, and the Broncos line bailed, Manning was doing just fine tossing all over the Bengals. The 3rd quarter comes to mind. It isn't denial just because people in the right (correctly) disagree with you.

    Seattle and New England are HOPING Manning has to throw 45+ times. That's the strength of their defense(s). The Cincinnati game was a complete outlier, and yet folks thinking doomsday and panic (like you) are assuming that's how it's always going to go. Evidence, the Broncos record, and now a week of rest contradict everything you're saying.
    I find it very amusing that you include the third Quarter of the Bengals game as proof and conveniently leave out the rest of the game where he could not hit the broad side of a barn and the OL could not block to save their lives. DEN did NOT move the ball at all until the last minute of the first half. It was 20-7 with the 7 coming from the pick six by Talib.

    Then, they got the brilliant Kickoff return by Bolden to set up a Red zone possession from the 20. Three plays and a PI later DEN finally scores an offensive TD. The next 2 drives were brilliant and Manning did throw 2 nice deep balls there. After that Manning could not throw the ball anywhere near like he should. The throw to Adam Jones was way off target and ill advised. He did get screwed on the DT facemask penalty 2 drives later, but the next First Down the DEN Offense picked up was 5 possessions after they took the lead and trailing by 11 with 2 minutes left in the game. And, that ended with a poor throw INT as well.

    A couple of other points:

    1. DEN is NOT scoring at the same rate or manufacturing the yards per drive they were before the scheme change, so please stop saying that. They are much better NET YPD and PPD because the defense has been better.

    2. The other part of that equation is they are turning the ball over at a much higher clip than in those earlier games as well. Much has been said of Peyton's INT's, but the Offense is fumbling as well. That is NOT sound playoff football.

    3. Just switching to a run oriented heavy Scheme is not going to help unless the run game actually shows up in the playoffs. It has been tremendously less effective the last 4 games after tearing up MIA and KC. Way too many people are still believing the running game is what it was then. It has not been for over a month.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
      No real argument from me, though i'm not sure I agree with Med's logic. Something is obviously amiss, but I'm not sure if its mental or physical (maybe a mixture of both).
      It looks like both. Physically, he is not throwing the ball as consistently as he has in his career or even earlier this year.

      Add in the scheme change, taking drops from center and not the gun, route combination adjustments due to personnel, and a completely different set of reads based on formation that Peyton has not had a decade to master and the mental side has been a challenge for him as well.

      Plus, the rest of the offense, especially the OL, has not been anywhere near quick learners since the scheme change. I also think Clady is banged up and Vasquez needs to be an All pro level Guard not a RT.

      All in all, this team is not the juggernaut on offense it was last year going into the playoffs. However, the defense looks like it is peaking at just the right time. It took Peyton to the SB once with that kind of support and I hope it can do it again. So, Like Doogan said let's just see how it plays out. I certainly am not going to sweat it anymore. I think DEN matches up a lot better with INDY and INDY has been pounded a couple of times this year when they had poor matchups on the road(See PIT).

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by TonyR View Post
        My logic? I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Manning played great in the 3rd quarter and then fell apart. Which was pretty much what Med posted. And you mention those interceptions........ who threw them?
        This is what you said. This is what I'm talking about:

        Originally posted by TonyR
        Broncos fell behind, had to pass to get back in the game. More passes means more problems for Manning.
        So how come we got back into the game to the tune of 21 points in the 3rd quarter when Manning was throwing the ball, we had a balanced offense?

        I thought it was as black and white as More passes means more problems for Manning?

        Manning threw the ball 37 times in against the Raiders and well into the 4th quarter. How come he didn't fall apart and throw multiple interceptions then?

        You pretty much ignored all the other factors/variables and points Med was making and decided "More passes means more problems for Manning."

        Like I said in my previous post, I go by what I can see on the field instead of getting hyper sensitive and speculating that "it's frightening" and "he can't be relied upon" to now "More passes means more problems for Manning."

        Comment


        • #94
          Agree that the team is NOT as effective as early in the season. The Defense has been holding things together for awhile now. Offense has been largely ineffective, especially in the red zone. ( somewhat play selection there)

          As far as Peyton. He obviously is not the same. Whether it is an injury, poor technique, bad decisions or Bad O line play he is not playing up to his standards.

          If it's injury or the thigh thing , it looks like a degenerative thing. And if that's the case it is probably best, for everyone, that he doesn't play next year.

          We have this playoff to go through, and maybe we get another super bowl...maybe not. If we don't because Manning throws inopportune picks
          due to his physical ability being compromised, it just may be time he retires.
          If the rest of the team is the reason we lose then que sera.

          And if he does throw picks and chooses NOT to retire , the teams physicians need to really check him out fully before renewing that 25 million dollar deal.

          That will be up to Elway and the staff.

          Lets hope that none of this is an issue in the playoff THIS year.

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by Mediator12 View Post
            I find it very amusing that you include the third Quarter of the Bengals game as proof and conveniently leave out the rest of the game where he could not hit the broad side of a barn and the OL could not block to save their lives. DEN did NOT move the ball at all until the last minute of the first half. It was 20-7 with the 7 coming from the pick six by Talib.

            Then, they got the brilliant Kickoff return by Bolden to set up a Red zone possession from the 20. Three plays and a PI later DEN finally scores an offensive TD. The next 2 drives were brilliant and Manning did throw 2 nice deep balls there. After that Manning could not throw the ball anywhere near like he should. The throw to Adam Jones was way off target and ill advised. He did get screwed on the DT facemask penalty 2 drives later, but the next First Down the DEN Offense picked up was 5 possessions after they took the lead and trailing by 11 with 2 minutes left in the game. And, that ended with a poor throw INT as well.

            A couple of other points:

            1. DEN is NOT scoring at the same rate or manufacturing the yards per drive they were before the scheme change, so please stop saying that. They are much better NET YPD and PPD because the defense has been better.

            2. The other part of that equation is they are turning the ball over at a much higher clip than in those earlier games as well. Much has been said of Peyton's INT's, but the Offense is fumbling as well. That is NOT sound playoff football.

            3. Just switching to a run oriented heavy Scheme is not going to help unless the run game actually shows up in the playoffs. It has been tremendously less effective the last 4 games after tearing up MIA and KC. Way too many people are still believing the running game is what it was then. It has not been for over a month.
            A lot of that is other teams preparing for what we are doing. I see a still effective run game, just not 185 yards from C J effective. It was bound to happen but I like our balance going into the playoffs much better than last year.

            The thing that erks me is the loss to Bmore in 2012 that should have been our Super Bowl

            Comment


            • #96
              Lots of agreeable points.

              Regardless of health, Manning as never gotten it done on his own in his career (has anyone?). So, hopefully we play well and get a lucky bounce or two.

              Seems also like special teams have played awfully special these last few weeks compared to earlier in the season. that's not helping the offense either.

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by ScottXray View Post
                Agree that the team is NOT as effective as early in the season. The Defense has been holding things together for awhile now. Offense has been largely ineffective, especially in the red zone. ( somewhat play selection there)

                As far as Peyton. He obviously is not the same. Whether it is an injury, poor technique, bad decisions or Bad O line play he is not playing up to his standards.

                If it's injury or the thigh thing , it looks like a degenerative thing. And if that's the case it is probably best, for everyone, that he doesn't play next year.

                We have this playoff to go through, and maybe we get another super bowl...maybe not. If we don't because Manning throws inopportune picks
                due to his physical ability being compromised, it just may be time he retires.
                If the rest of the team is the reason we lose then que sera.

                And if he does throw picks and chooses NOT to retire , the teams physicians need to really check him out fully before renewing that 25 million dollar deal.

                That will be up to Elway and the staff.

                Lets hope that none of this is an issue in the playoff THIS year.
                Not to worry, Fox has the team practising outside in 15 degree weather. He knows this will flash freeze Mannings nerves and he will play lights out the rest of the playoffs. Seriously why put Manning through this unnecessary hardship when you have a brand new indoor facility for occasions just like this?

                Comment


                • #98
                  I'm having trouble squaring the circle of Peyton's degenerative inner thighs(!) with his already announced coming back for 2015. He could have said nothing "I'm focused on the SB and everyone gets dinged up in the season, so I'll wait until the off season to reevaluate"

                  I get that he's not 100% and the early Bye seems to have been an issue. Which would mean that this Bye is a gift from God.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by fontaine View Post
                    You pretty much ignored all the other factors/variables and points Med was making and decided "More passes means more problems for Manning."

                    Like I said in my previous post, I go by what I can see on the field instead of getting hyper sensitive and speculating that "it's frightening" and "he can't be relied upon" to now "More passes means more problems for Manning."
                    I didn't "ignore" anything. I was referring to this comment from Med's post, among others:
                    It seems he gets more inconsistent with his accuracy passing the ball with more use.
                    Med also said this is gross oversimplification. But anyone without reading comprehension deficiencies understands the point. It appears Manning might have some physical issues (something you should be "seeing on the field") and these issues are something that should concern you as a Broncos fan because they lead to inconsistent play. Not really all that difficult, and not something worth being so "hyper sensitive" about.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ColoradoDarin View Post
                      I'm having trouble squaring the circle of Peyton's degenerative inner thighs(!)
                      <a href="https://imgflip.com/i/g4e8o"><img src="https://i.imgflip.com/g4e8o.jpg" title="made at imgflip.com"/></a>

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by TonyR View Post
                        Go back and read Med's post again, particularly the part about the Cincinnati game. Broncos fell behind, had to pass to get back in the game. More passes means more problems for Manning. Sometimes this is going to happen, particularly against good teams. And hey, guess what?!? You play good teams in the playoffs. Manning is this team's bread and butter, and if he can't be relied upon I think the implications are pretty clear. Of course, perhaps not for you since you're one of those denial people I mentioned. If nothing else, I like your optimism!
                        Manning threw a 50 yard bomb to DT, then it started pouring rain.

                        Dalton couldn't even complete a pass. I guess he was injured too.

                        The punt team put us down 2, and Manning made a really stupid decision to throw while backpeddling. Ballgame. End of story.

                        Comment


                        • Manning's inner-thigh cobra aids must be an epidemic, because Andy Dalton's passes were so erratic in the 4th quarter that he couldn't hit the ocean if he was standing in it.

                          Either that or...rain.
                          Last edited by pricejj; 01-07-2015, 01:07 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Mediator12 View Post
                            3. Just switching to a run oriented heavy Scheme is not going to help unless the run game actually shows up in the playoffs. It has been tremendously less effective the last 4 games after tearing up MIA and KC. Way too many people are still believing the running game is what it was then. It has not been for over a month.
                            I think the run game gimmick of 6 OL and a blocking TE doesn't mean the run game is fixed either. That just kills the passing game too which is what teams fear. I expect to beat Indy and lose at New England when the superior coaching is ran into there.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
                              I think the run game gimmick of 6 OL and a blocking TE doesn't mean the run game is fixed either. That just kills the passing game too which is what teams fear. I expect to beat Indy and lose at New England when the superior coaching is ran into there.
                              Pagano knows Peyton real well. Coaching may be an issue this week as well.
                              The offense must get up on Indy and not let Luck keep the game close. And they need to sustain drives to give the Defense time to rest. That means not getting stupid on play selection.....something Gase excels at. I hope we actually see some two back sets and pitches and toss sweeps , along with throws to running backs and TEs in the middle. Maybe a screen pass too. Somethings we haven't seen much at all.

                              If our Defense isn't up to snuff this could be the last game for us this season.
                              Last edited by ScottXray; 01-07-2015, 03:46 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by TonyR View Post
                                I didn't "ignore" anything. I was referring to this comment from Med's post, among others:

                                Med also said this is gross oversimplification. But anyone without reading comprehension deficiencies understands the point. It appears Manning might have some physical issues (something you should be "seeing on the field") and these issues are something that should concern you as a Broncos fan because they lead to inconsistent play. Not really all that difficult, and not something worth being so "hyper sensitive" about.
                                I'm glad you've finally stopped the wrist slitting of "more passes means more problems for Manning" and got enough sense to admit you really don't know what his physical problems are or what may exactly lead to.

                                It took you a while but you got there.

                                But in the interest of further educating you here are the known facts about Manning's struggles relating to his injuries:

                                1. No one outside of his direct trainers/physiotherapists and coaches really know the extent of his injuries and how much/how little/how often it's affecting his throws and what that means in the short or medium future.

                                Yes, that includes you too.
                                Last edited by fontaine; 01-07-2015, 04:17 PM.

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