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Broncos Offense has actually gotten better since StL game.

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  • jmz313
    replied
    Lots of agreeable points.

    Regardless of health, Manning as never gotten it done on his own in his career (has anyone?). So, hopefully we play well and get a lucky bounce or two.

    Seems also like special teams have played awfully special these last few weeks compared to earlier in the season. that's not helping the offense either.

    Leave a comment:


  • baja
    replied
    Originally posted by Mediator12 View Post
    I find it very amusing that you include the third Quarter of the Bengals game as proof and conveniently leave out the rest of the game where he could not hit the broad side of a barn and the OL could not block to save their lives. DEN did NOT move the ball at all until the last minute of the first half. It was 20-7 with the 7 coming from the pick six by Talib.

    Then, they got the brilliant Kickoff return by Bolden to set up a Red zone possession from the 20. Three plays and a PI later DEN finally scores an offensive TD. The next 2 drives were brilliant and Manning did throw 2 nice deep balls there. After that Manning could not throw the ball anywhere near like he should. The throw to Adam Jones was way off target and ill advised. He did get screwed on the DT facemask penalty 2 drives later, but the next First Down the DEN Offense picked up was 5 possessions after they took the lead and trailing by 11 with 2 minutes left in the game. And, that ended with a poor throw INT as well.

    A couple of other points:

    1. DEN is NOT scoring at the same rate or manufacturing the yards per drive they were before the scheme change, so please stop saying that. They are much better NET YPD and PPD because the defense has been better.

    2. The other part of that equation is they are turning the ball over at a much higher clip than in those earlier games as well. Much has been said of Peyton's INT's, but the Offense is fumbling as well. That is NOT sound playoff football.

    3. Just switching to a run oriented heavy Scheme is not going to help unless the run game actually shows up in the playoffs. It has been tremendously less effective the last 4 games after tearing up MIA and KC. Way too many people are still believing the running game is what it was then. It has not been for over a month.
    A lot of that is other teams preparing for what we are doing. I see a still effective run game, just not 185 yards from C J effective. It was bound to happen but I like our balance going into the playoffs much better than last year.

    The thing that erks me is the loss to Bmore in 2012 that should have been our Super Bowl

    Leave a comment:


  • ScottXray
    replied
    Agree that the team is NOT as effective as early in the season. The Defense has been holding things together for awhile now. Offense has been largely ineffective, especially in the red zone. ( somewhat play selection there)

    As far as Peyton. He obviously is not the same. Whether it is an injury, poor technique, bad decisions or Bad O line play he is not playing up to his standards.

    If it's injury or the thigh thing , it looks like a degenerative thing. And if that's the case it is probably best, for everyone, that he doesn't play next year.

    We have this playoff to go through, and maybe we get another super bowl...maybe not. If we don't because Manning throws inopportune picks
    due to his physical ability being compromised, it just may be time he retires.
    If the rest of the team is the reason we lose then que sera.

    And if he does throw picks and chooses NOT to retire , the teams physicians need to really check him out fully before renewing that 25 million dollar deal.

    That will be up to Elway and the staff.

    Lets hope that none of this is an issue in the playoff THIS year.

    Leave a comment:


  • fontaine
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyR View Post
    My logic? I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Manning played great in the 3rd quarter and then fell apart. Which was pretty much what Med posted. And you mention those interceptions........ who threw them?
    This is what you said. This is what I'm talking about:

    Originally posted by TonyR
    Broncos fell behind, had to pass to get back in the game. More passes means more problems for Manning.
    So how come we got back into the game to the tune of 21 points in the 3rd quarter when Manning was throwing the ball, we had a balanced offense?

    I thought it was as black and white as More passes means more problems for Manning?

    Manning threw the ball 37 times in against the Raiders and well into the 4th quarter. How come he didn't fall apart and throw multiple interceptions then?

    You pretty much ignored all the other factors/variables and points Med was making and decided "More passes means more problems for Manning."

    Like I said in my previous post, I go by what I can see on the field instead of getting hyper sensitive and speculating that "it's frightening" and "he can't be relied upon" to now "More passes means more problems for Manning."

    Leave a comment:


  • Mediator12
    replied
    Originally posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
    No real argument from me, though i'm not sure I agree with Med's logic. Something is obviously amiss, but I'm not sure if its mental or physical (maybe a mixture of both).
    It looks like both. Physically, he is not throwing the ball as consistently as he has in his career or even earlier this year.

    Add in the scheme change, taking drops from center and not the gun, route combination adjustments due to personnel, and a completely different set of reads based on formation that Peyton has not had a decade to master and the mental side has been a challenge for him as well.

    Plus, the rest of the offense, especially the OL, has not been anywhere near quick learners since the scheme change. I also think Clady is banged up and Vasquez needs to be an All pro level Guard not a RT.

    All in all, this team is not the juggernaut on offense it was last year going into the playoffs. However, the defense looks like it is peaking at just the right time. It took Peyton to the SB once with that kind of support and I hope it can do it again. So, Like Doogan said let's just see how it plays out. I certainly am not going to sweat it anymore. I think DEN matches up a lot better with INDY and INDY has been pounded a couple of times this year when they had poor matchups on the road(See PIT).

    Leave a comment:


  • Mediator12
    replied
    Originally posted by Doogansquest View Post
    They will worry about next season when this one is over.

    Regardless of what ails Mr. Manning, the team is still moving and scoring as efficiently as they were before St. Louis. Regardless of what we see (or think we see, and then use only circumstantial evidence which only supports our predetermined opinions), Denver is scoring as efficiently, while also shortening the game and playing better defense.

    That is better for playoff football. Manning, if truly suffering inner thigh damage (lol), won't suddenly be so bad that Denver stops doing what they've done as effectively as before - win.

    And again, they are now playing a brand of football more conducive to successful playoff runs. How it looked while working on the kinks in the regular season doesn't matter. I repeat: IT DOESN'T MATTER. Ravens and Panthers were ugly in the regular season as well, and both nearly missed the playoffs. Denver went 12-4 with an absurdly difficult schedule and a week 4 bye.

    What we've seen is irrelevant. What we think is happening is laughably full of ignorance; and again, irrelevant. It has nothing to do with denial or contrasting colored glasses. Denver changed up everything on offense, and still went 6-1 during that stretch against a bunch of teams desperately fighting for playoff spots.

    Think big picture: Denver is playing the right kind of football for the playoffs (3 times to drive home this fact).

    Unjustified nervousness over a stupid football game is creating this conversation.

    @TonyR: Until Vinovich took over, and the Broncos line bailed, Manning was doing just fine tossing all over the Bengals. The 3rd quarter comes to mind. It isn't denial just because people in the right (correctly) disagree with you.

    Seattle and New England are HOPING Manning has to throw 45+ times. That's the strength of their defense(s). The Cincinnati game was a complete outlier, and yet folks thinking doomsday and panic (like you) are assuming that's how it's always going to go. Evidence, the Broncos record, and now a week of rest contradict everything you're saying.
    I find it very amusing that you include the third Quarter of the Bengals game as proof and conveniently leave out the rest of the game where he could not hit the broad side of a barn and the OL could not block to save their lives. DEN did NOT move the ball at all until the last minute of the first half. It was 20-7 with the 7 coming from the pick six by Talib.

    Then, they got the brilliant Kickoff return by Bolden to set up a Red zone possession from the 20. Three plays and a PI later DEN finally scores an offensive TD. The next 2 drives were brilliant and Manning did throw 2 nice deep balls there. After that Manning could not throw the ball anywhere near like he should. The throw to Adam Jones was way off target and ill advised. He did get screwed on the DT facemask penalty 2 drives later, but the next First Down the DEN Offense picked up was 5 possessions after they took the lead and trailing by 11 with 2 minutes left in the game. And, that ended with a poor throw INT as well.

    A couple of other points:

    1. DEN is NOT scoring at the same rate or manufacturing the yards per drive they were before the scheme change, so please stop saying that. They are much better NET YPD and PPD because the defense has been better.

    2. The other part of that equation is they are turning the ball over at a much higher clip than in those earlier games as well. Much has been said of Peyton's INT's, but the Offense is fumbling as well. That is NOT sound playoff football.

    3. Just switching to a run oriented heavy Scheme is not going to help unless the run game actually shows up in the playoffs. It has been tremendously less effective the last 4 games after tearing up MIA and KC. Way too many people are still believing the running game is what it was then. It has not been for over a month.

    Leave a comment:


  • SonOfLe-loLang
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyR View Post
    Right. I'm saying it's frightening if Med is right. And for some reason this is hard for some people to understand and/or agree with. If Med is right, how can a Broncos fan not be concerned? What is there to argue with here?
    No real argument from me, though i'm not sure I agree with Med's logic. Something is obviously amiss, but I'm not sure if its mental or physical (maybe a mixture of both).

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyR
    replied
    Originally posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
    So, Med might be right, there does seem to be something amiss. I just wouldn't use the Cinn 4th quarter as an example.
    Right. I'm saying it's frightening if Med is right. And for some reason this is hard for some people to understand and/or agree with. If Med is right, how can a Broncos fan not be concerned? What is there to argue with here?

    Leave a comment:


  • baja
    replied
    My advice; Enjoy Peyton Manning while you can.

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyR
    replied
    Originally posted by fontaine View Post
    This is why you're black and white logic is silly. Manning and team did pass to come back into the game in the 3rd quarter where we scored 21 points and were leading the game and then start shooting ourselves in the foot with interceptions, penalties and poor OL play. You just choose to focus on one position. That's on you, not me.
    My logic? I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. Manning played great in the 3rd quarter and then fell apart. Which was pretty much what Med posted. And you mention those interceptions........ who threw them?

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyR
    replied
    Originally posted by Doogansquest View Post
    @TonyR: Until Vinovich took over, and the Broncos line bailed, Manning was doing just fine tossing all over the Bengals. The 3rd quarter comes to mind. It isn't denial just because people in the right (correctly) disagree with you.
    So, then, Manning's 3 intereceptions in the 4th quarter are irrelevant to the discussion? And you're the one "in the right"? Lol.

    Leave a comment:


  • SonOfLe-loLang
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyR View Post
    Go back and read Med's post again, particularly the part about the Cincinnati game. Broncos fell behind, had to pass to get back in the game. More passes means more problems for Manning. Sometimes this is going to happen, particularly against good teams. And hey, guess what?!? You play good teams in the playoffs. Manning is this team's bread and butter, and if he can't be relied upon I think the implications are pretty clear. Of course, perhaps not for you since you're one of those denial people I mentioned. If nothing else, I like your optimism!
    This might be true, but problems also started when the rain came. Also, one of his picks was due to him jumping back, not setting his feet. His passes have floated in these cases since the day he arrived here. Also, he was clearly feeling footsteps in that game (a mental problem)

    So, Med might be right, there does seem to be something amiss. I just wouldn't use the Cinn 4th quarter as an example.

    Leave a comment:


  • CEH
    replied
    I dont think Denver will overlook Indy based on 2012 and ppl complain about Manning having to throw 40 times but this is exactly what Luck will end up doing which should give Denver opportunies for INTs.

    Indy is maybe a 4 win team without Luck (based on talent) . Baring flukes , I don't think Denver will lay an egg and will take care of business in a workman like fashion

    Leave a comment:


  • fontaine
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyR View Post
    Go back and read Med's post again, particularly the part about the Cincinnati game. Broncos fell behind, had to pass to get back in the game. More passes means more problems for Manning. Sometimes this is going to happen, particularly against good teams.
    This is why you're black and white logic is silly. Manning and team did pass to come back into the game in the 3rd quarter where we scored 21 points and were leading the game and then start shooting ourselves in the foot with interceptions, penalties and poor OL play. You just choose to focus on one position. That's on you, not me.

    Manning is this team's bread and butter, and if he can't be relied upon I think the implications are pretty clear. Of course, perhaps not for you since you're one of those denial people I mentioned.
    According to who? You?



    You can keep spouting this but I've said going back to last month that Manning's having problems when he can't step into his throws.

    http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthr...highlight=step

    The difference is I don't go from what I can see on the field to getting hyper sensitive and speculating that "it's frightening" and "he can't be relied upon" to oh sh*t he must have worn out his inner thigh.

    Leave a comment:


  • Doogansquest
    replied
    They will worry about next season when this one is over.

    Regardless of what ails Mr. Manning, the team is still moving and scoring as efficiently as they were before St. Louis. Regardless of what we see (or think we see, and then use only circumstantial evidence which only supports our predetermined opinions), Denver is scoring as efficiently, while also shortening the game and playing better defense.

    That is better for playoff football. Manning, if truly suffering inner thigh damage (lol), won't suddenly be so bad that Denver stops doing what they've done as effectively as before - win.

    And again, they are now playing a brand of football more conducive to successful playoff runs. How it looked while working on the kinks in the regular season doesn't matter. I repeat: IT DOESN'T MATTER. Ravens and Panthers were ugly in the regular season as well, and both nearly missed the playoffs. Denver went 12-4 with an absurdly difficult schedule and a week 4 bye.

    What we've seen is irrelevant. What we think is happening is laughably full of ignorance; and again, irrelevant. It has nothing to do with denial or contrasting colored glasses. Denver changed up everything on offense, and still went 6-1 during that stretch against a bunch of teams desperately fighting for playoff spots.

    Think big picture: Denver is playing the right kind of football for the playoffs (3 times to drive home this fact).

    Unjustified nervousness over a stupid football game is creating this conversation.

    @TonyR: Until Vinovich took over, and the Broncos line bailed, Manning was doing just fine tossing all over the Bengals. The 3rd quarter comes to mind. It isn't denial just because people in the right (correctly) disagree with you.

    Seattle and New England are HOPING Manning has to throw 45+ times. That's the strength of their defense(s). The Cincinnati game was a complete outlier, and yet folks thinking doomsday and panic (like you) are assuming that's how it's always going to go. Evidence, the Broncos record, and now a week of rest contradict everything you're saying.
    Last edited by Doogansquest; 01-07-2015, 08:48 AM.

    Leave a comment:

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