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  • "Best Offense in the History of the NFL..."

    I was kind of surprised to hear the phrase "Best Offense in the History of the NFL" coming out of Simms mouth this game. I haven't dug into the statistics, because I think they only tell a part of the story where best offense is concerned, but the more I stew on the statement, the less I believe it's true.

    I think this is a great offense, but I also think that all modern offenses are stained by some of the worst defensive play we've ever seen in the history of the game thanks to Goodell's influence in rebalancing the NFL scales in favor of the offense over the defense for reasons of ratings and "safety."

    But ultimately, having seen this offense and the 98 offense, without a doubt the chemistry of that offense blows the chemistry of this offense away. And frankly, I love Peyton Manning. He's as great a quarterback as ever played the game. But he's not The Duke. He's just not. The Duke is what made the chemistry of the Broncos '98 offense what it was. His ability to make guys better is a level better than what Peyton's very high level is.

    I know that John Elway's goal is to make Peyton Manning talked about as the greatest quarterback to ever play the game, but my heart wont let me lie about that. Peyton Manning is great, but he's not greater than John Elway.

    That's not where I thought I was going to go with this thread, but there you have it...

  • #2
    Good post. It's certainly lovely that we're even having this discussion

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    • #3
      I love Manning, but down 6 with <2 min to go... with any roster... which guy would you pick?

      It's pretty easy, really.

      That's not a shot at Manning. There can only be one greatest QB of all time. No shame in being a close 2nd... or 3rd, etc.


      Regardless, it'll be our defense that decides our fate from here out. They've held teams to less than 20 three weeks in a row. That's going to be hard next week, but we'll need big plays and a big performance from them. Because if SD held us to 24, there's every chance NE could do the same. We need the defense to pull rabbits out of the hat.

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      • #4
        I argued at the end of the season that 1998 offense was better than this one, and I stand by it. I do think however that this is arguably the most potent passing offense of all-time.

        Also I don't really agree that Elway was better than Manning. I think they are very comparable to be honest. Manning is the better pure passer while Elway was better in all the intangible areas. Two of the top five QBs of all-time.

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        • #5
          Wrong! Troll!



          Manning is one of the few rare quarterbacks who does improve the play of the guys around him. Decker and Thomas are not 80+ catch, 1300 yard guys with anyone other than Manning, Brees or Brady throwing them the football. Julius Thomas is not a probowl TE without Manning getting the ball to him. I also doubt Knowshon Moreno becomes a 1500 total yard, 12+ td guy without Manning in the backfield with him. So I disagree with you there.

          The 1998 offense was a great offense, a 1/3 of a team that won a title. That cements the 98 team above the 13 team until the 13 team wins a championship, if they are fortunate enough to do so.

          Elway will always be better than any QB that comes after him for me. Manning is great, but I did not grow up watching him play football for the Broncos.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Popps View Post
            I love Manning, but down 6 with <2 min to go... with any roster... which guy would you pick?

            It's pretty easy, really.

            That's not a shot at Manning. There can only be one greatest QB of all time. No shame in being a close 2nd... or 3rd, etc.


            Regardless, it'll be our defense that decides our fate from here out. They've held teams to less than 20 three weeks in a row. That's going to be hard next week, but we'll need big plays and a big performance from them. Because if SD held us to 24, there's every chance NE could do the same. We need the defense to pull rabbits out of the hat.
            I hope no one takes any of this as a shot at Manning. I love the guy and have for a long time. But for my money, Elway is the greatest QB of all time and the only reason it's close is that Elway never had the luxuries that Joe Montana did in his career.

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            • #7
              I disagree.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
                Wrong! Troll!



                Manning is one of the few rare quarterbacks who does improve the play of the guys around him. Decker and Thomas are not 80+ catch, 1300 yard guys with anyone other than Manning, Brees or Brady throwing them the football. Julius Thomas is not a probowl TE without Manning getting the ball to him. I also doubt Knowshon Moreno becomes a 1500 total yard, 12+ td guy without Manning in the backfield with him. So I disagree with you there.

                The 1998 offense was a great offense, a 1/3 of a team that won a title. That cements the 98 team above the 13 team until the 13 team wins a championship, if they are fortunate enough to do so.

                Elway will always be better than any QB that comes after him for me. Manning is great, but I did not grow up watching him play football for the Broncos.

                You seriously undervalue all of our other offensive players. There's a reason that this was Manning's greatest season, and why this offense scored more points than any other team ever (including all of Peyton's previous teams). Come on now.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Taco John View Post
                  I hope no one takes any of this as a shot at Manning. I love the guy and have for a long time. But for my money, Elway is the greatest QB of all time and the only reason it's close is that Elway never had the luxuries that Joe Montana did in his career.
                  Can you imagine if Elway had come of age in SF's system with that staff/personnel? He'd have two hands full of rings.

                  Conversely, what if Brady had played in Indy his whole career and Manning had worked with Bill B. his whole career. I'd say people would have a very different view of that whole debate.

                  Things are always situational. But, no... I don't think anyone would take your post as a shot at Manning, especially around these parts. Manning is revered in Denver like almost no other, but there will never be another like Elway, imo.

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                  • #10
                    Elway and Manning are 1a and 1b in my book, with a slight nod to Elway. Manning is more of a surgeon, but Elway had that cannon of an arm.

                    98 had a devastating running game with TD, which is why I'd say that offense was overall better.

                    But I agree with the statement that this team is a better passing team.

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                    • #11
                      Anyway, I have major man-love for both of them. Still pinching myself that both wound up playing for us.

                      Talk to you fools next weekend, hopefully breaking down our win...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
                        You seriously undervalue all of our other offensive players. There's a reason that this was Manning's greatest season, and why this offense scored more points than any other team ever (including all of Peyton's previous teams). Come on now.

                        Decker, Thomas and Moreno were here before Manning. Are any of them potential probowl/allpro players without an Elite QB throwing them the football or putting them in the best possible situation?

                        I am not discounting their talent, because it is obvious they are talented. But be realistic. Without a Brees, Brady or Manning these guys do not have 30+ td's between them, or 3500 yards of offense.

                        Great QB's do that. Smith, McCaffrey, Sharpe and TD are not what they became without Elway. It is not a dig at them to say that.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Taco John View Post
                          I hope no one takes any of this as a shot at Manning. I love the guy and have for a long time. But for my money, Elway is the greatest QB of all time and the only reason it's close is that Elway never had the luxuries that Joe Montana did in his career.
                          Manning has never really had it cushy like Montana had it either. In fact, all but a couple of his teams were mediocre or worse if you replace him with a regular QB. I still think Montana is probably the most overrated QB of all-time. That dude had everything going for him and simply could not stay healthy much of his career. Manning or Elway on those 49er teams probably double his Super Bowl wins in all honesty.

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                          • #14
                            DT is a top 10, maybe top 5 wr in the NFL IMO.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
                              Decker, Thomas and Moreno were here before Manning. Are any of them potential probowl/allpro players without an Elite QB throwing them the football or putting them in the best possible situation?

                              I am not discounting their talent, because it is obvious they are talented. But be realistic. Without a Brees, Brady or Manning these guys do not have 30+ td's between them, or 3500 yards of offense.

                              Great QB's do that. Smith, McCaffrey, Sharpe and TD are not what they became without Elway. It is not a dig at them to say that.

                              Demaryius Thomas is the most physically gifted receiver in the NFL not named Calvin Johnson. You are being dumb.

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