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Why does Sean Payton get the pass that Mike McCarthy did not?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by ColoradoDarin View Post
    IMO Sean Payton is a poor man's Mike Shanahan (I love Shanny, so this isn't a knock, he's just a lesser version of The Man)
    Yeah I think a Mike Shanahan but with Andy Reid tendencies. Great offensive system but sometimes get to cute and mismanage things. Also, it’s hard for them to sustain a great defense because they focus on offense.

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    • #47
      I was thinking this exact thing this morning. For all the talent and having a record setting QB and supposedly best coach in the business, it has not translated into as many SB appearances as you would expect.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by jmz313 View Post

        Payton controlled his teams destiny on offense and defense and failed in last years NFC championship game. the call was inconvenient but wasn't the final play or even the final Quarter.

        If you don't agree with that, then go back to the posts about the Broncos being a playoff team or team that was rooked outta wins this year and agree.
        did you see or read me defending his clock managment or defiant misuse of challenges and time-outs ?
        no.
        I said he was on the cutting edge of offenses and has shown the ability to adapt his O to the QB talent available.
        and I said he would be unemployed for 15 minutes, I did not say Head coach, or even coaching.

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        • #49
          Peyton has competitive teams. Look at how the Saints played without Brees and then look at how the Packers played without Rogers. The players actually like Peyton as well specifically the star QB

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          • #50
            I'll continue defending Sean Payton because IMHO he's an excellent coach. He's turned the NO Saints into a winning culture and he's rebuilt the team a few times and between his coaching and the GM's draft picks/FA signings (forgot GMs name, Loomis maybe?) they have done a great job keeping the Saints competitive. NO has also paid Brees a freaking boatload of money. Heck, they paid Brees $35m in one season when Brees refused to renegotiate his contract. The Saints sucked that season but Brees got paid.

            S. Payton is doing a solid job with the tools he's been given and the Saints have been a consistently well coached, well prepared team during his tenure and the Broncos would be fortunate to call him HC

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post

              The Saints had HISTORICALLY bad defenses. Payton was suspended for a year.

              Mccarthy has never been controversial. He was not with Brees who is as humble as they come. Aaron Rodgers would be contemptuous towards McCarthy.

              Aaron Rodgers contract played a big role as to why they couldn't get the talent on defense.
              No, they pretty much just ignored D during the Thompson era.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Allen C View Post
                Peyton has competitive teams. Look at how the Saints played without Brees and then look at how the Packers played without Rogers. The players actually like Peyton as well specifically the star QB
                The Saints also had back to back to back 7 and 9 seasons with a healthy Drew Brees.

                While Payton is a good coach, he seems to get a pass that McCarthy does not and I don't get it. They are very similar situations.

                Aaron Rodgers has been a malcontent and acts smug. Ex teammates have NOT been flattering about him.

                Last edited by Broncoblood32; 01-06-2020, 11:29 PM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post

                  No, they pretty much just ignored D during the Thompson era.
                  Whose decision was it to hire Rob Ryan? Sure Sean Payton had a hand in that.

                  I also would say Brees's contract caused some problems in getting talent on the D too.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post

                    Whose decision was it to hire Rob Ryan? Sure Sean Payton had a hand in that.

                    I also would say Brees's contract caused some problems in getting talent on the D too.
                    Rob Ryan had a top 5 defense his first year with the Saints. But he was a one year wonder. Also, Payton has basically built two super bowl caliber teams. One with Brees, Duece, Reggie Bush, Vilma, Jeremy Shockey, and Jimmy Graham that won the Super Bowl and another team with Brees, Hayward, Kamara, Michael Thomas, and Demario Davis that should have been in the Super Bowl last year. You gotta give him credit for that. As far as Brees, he was an elite QB when you paid him his big contract. I don’t see a problem with it.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post

                      Whose decision was it to hire Rob Ryan? Sure Sean Payton had a hand in that.

                      I also would say Brees's contract caused some problems in getting talent on the D too.
                      The Saints had the same issue, they ignored defense and at times the OL until they were forced to address it and they’ve improved since then.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by CHEF LUIGI View Post

                        did you see or read me defending his clock managment or defiant misuse of challenges and time-outs ?
                        no.
                        I said he was on the cutting edge of offenses and has shown the ability to adapt his O to the QB talent available.
                        and I said he would be unemployed for 15 minutes, I did not say Head coach, or even coaching.
                        OK, fair enough. you're right, we will be hired... to HC in 15 minutes.

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                        • #57
                          Worth remembering that only two coaches have been to multiple superbowls in the last 10 full seasons, Belichick and Pete Carroll, and only one of those has actually won more than one. So having one superbowl win is probably the gold standard for what makes a top-level coach whether you like it or not.....we do tend to fixate on specific issues or errors as examples of ineptitude and harp on about it, whereas what we really should be doing is making a more balanced assessment of the coaches' body of work over a period of time. They all make mistakes, really, all of them, even the great ones. The mark of quality is not being flawless, its really a question of getting more right than you get wrong over time.

                          But I recognise the OP wasn't trying to judge either coach as good or bad anyway, they were looking for an explanation as to the difference despite the almost identical CVs. I have to agree with those that stated that falling out with Aaron Rodgers is probably the difference, which means that really there is no difference, both coaches are at a similar level in the final analysis.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by chrisp View Post
                            Worth remembering that only two coaches have been to multiple superbowls in the last 10 full seasons, Belichick and Pete Carroll, and only one of those has actually won more than one. So having one superbowl win is probably the gold standard for what makes a top-level coach whether you like it or not.....we do tend to fixate on specific issues or errors as examples of ineptitude and harp on about it, whereas what we really should be doing is making a more balanced assessment of the coaches' body of work over a period of time. They all make mistakes, really, all of them, even the great ones. The mark of quality is not being flawless, its really a question of getting more right than you get wrong over time.

                            But I recognise the OP wasn't trying to judge either coach as good or bad anyway, they were looking for an explanation as to the difference despite the almost identical CVs. I have to agree with those that stated that falling out with Aaron Rodgers is probably the difference, which means that really there is no difference, both coaches are at a similar level in the final analysis.
                            It's the franchise expectations and the feel of the fan base.

                            Mike Tomlin has gone to 2 SB's, won 1 of them and always has his team in the hunt. Their kryptonite like many other teams are the Pats.
                            He's been derided by many in the Steelers fan base as not good enough and etc.

                            You can argue that Tomlin, McCarthy and Payton are all the same. 1 SB win, talented franchise QB's, a struggling defense for some time and sometimes considered to underachieve.

                            Payton is the unquestioned best HC in franchise history and helped take them to heights they've never been. He is the gold standard for that franchise.

                            Tomlin and McCarthy are just spokes on the championship wheel in Pitt and GB. The expectations are larger.

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                            • #59
                              I like how Andy Reid gets killed for his coaching in the playoffs but you guys don’t see all these other guys.

                              Sean Payton is a Tracy Porter interception and lucky onside kick away from being in the same boat as Andy. He was horrific last weekend.

                              horrible clock management and he ran Kamara only 7 times.

                              old Drew Brees can’t throw so you use Taysom Hill instead of getting the running game going with Kamara.

                              great job

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Omnipicus View Post
                                I like how Andy Reid gets killed for his coaching in the playoffs but you guys don’t see all these other guys.

                                Sean Payton is a Tracy Porter interception and lucky onside kick away from being in the same boat as Andy. He was horrific last weekend.

                                horrible clock management and he ran Kamara only 7 times.

                                old Drew Brees can’t throw so you use Taysom Hill instead of getting the running game going with Kamara.

                                great job
                                Reid almost literally went to the NFC title game every year and got spanked with the Eagles. He was the king of runner up. He doesn't win in the clutch games in the playoffs that's why he has that rep.
                                You can call it luck or whatever you want to, when you win a SB it goes down in history.

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