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  • Originally posted by TonyR View Post

    Lol, I guess you don't understand the concept of "tempered enthusiasm"? Do you know what someone means when they say that? Let's start there before I waste my time explaining this to you any further. By your reaction it appears you're a little confused!
    I know what it means, and I find it funny that your enthusiasm was tempered because Lock has some stuff he needs to clean up as a rookie.

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    • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

      I know what it means, and I find it funny that your enthusiasm was tempered because Lock has some stuff he needs to clean up as a rookie.
      I think it's kinda funny that you think you understand what you're seeing better than a guy who played 11 years of professional football!

      Look, I'm not writing off Drew Lock. Give me a break. I'm saying I'm slightly less enthusiastic about his performance in that game than I was before watching that breakdown. Someone who watches it with an open mind rather than seeing what they want to see might have that reaction. He made some dangerous throws and got away with it. Will be interesting to see how he does this week. Regardless, still plenty to be excited about. My optimism is just a little more guarded now, which is probably the smarter way to go about it.

      Changing subjects, it was also interesting how just in the first handful of plays he showed how badly the protection broke down a few times. And as he said, the Broncos really need to clean that up. Lock deserves credit for handling those breakdowns as well as he did.

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      • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

        I think we're in agreement in the sense that O'Sullivan is coming from a place where mechanics are everything, because he didn't really have NFL arm talent, much less elite arm talent like Lock. He kind of misses the forest for the trees there. I do think any QB coach would basically say the same stuff to Lock as O'Sullivan is saying though. That's what that video kind of felt like: a coaching session. Meanwhile, if you're watching that video from a player assessment angle, it's kind of mind-boggling precisely because of what he's doing as a raw rookie.
        Yeah, and I'm in total agreement on your post.
        Basically, If Lock still continues to have poor mechanics consistently and its week 2 of the regular season next year, then yeah, some of this is warranted. But it's his 2nd start ever.
        The kid was excited as F. Let's all just just enjoy this and not overanalyze him to death like JT kinda does cause that his schtick.

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        • Originally posted by TonyR View Post

          I think it's kinda funny that you think you understand what you're seeing better than a guy who played 11 years of professional football!
          I agreed with his criticisms outside of the first play, which was away from the corner and definitely wasn't lucky like he said it was. I'm genuinely puzzled by his take on that play, as it's obviously thrown where only his receiver has a shot at it. If you doubt me, there's a 1/4 speed feature on Youtube you can use to check yourself. And outside of that one play, the rest of the passes he calls "lucky" weren't even close to being picked off so he's clearly overstating things.

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          • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

            I agreed with his criticisms outside of the first play, which was away from the corner and definitely wasn't lucky like he said it was. I'm genuinely puzzled by his take on that play, as it's obviously thrown where only his receiver has a shot at it. If you doubt me, there's a 1/4 speed feature on Youtube you can use to check yourself. And outside of that one play, the rest of the passes he calls "lucky" weren't even close to being picked off so he's clearly overstating things.
            He's looking at things from a textbook scenario, BUT... sometimes improvising or breaking technique is good. When Mahomes sidearms it, it's technically bad but situationally good. Elway himself did crap they tell you not to do, but it usually turned out good for him.

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            • Is there anything disagreeable about the idea that he'll need to improve his fundamentals to have a better chance of long term success? He'll be able to generate even more power in his throws when the "fade away" thing is cleaned up. It's nice to have a QB who can get away with it, but you don't want to see it become a consistent habit.

              I think you guys can make an argument out of literally anything.

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              • If Lock is still throwing off his back foot come TC that’s a problem. Highly unlikely though especially if he takes whatever Payton tells him to heart.

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                • I am surprised O'Sullivan doesn't have a better read on that first play to Fant though. I mean, pretty much everyone who's given it multiple looks can see the location + Fant's box out made it a great throw no matter how risky it appears at first glance.

                  There were a couple shorter throws coming in high with a little too much heat on them (both caught btw) I was more concerned about, frankly. Because most passes are going to be <10 yards at this level, so you want to be consistent there.

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                  • Lock throws off his back foot for accuracy when pressure is in his face. It's a fade away jump shot that he nails with deadly accuracy from downtown. If he stepped into those throws he would be nailed. He's got a good knack for sensing pressure, waiting to get a perfect throw off, and avoiding contact after the release.

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                    • Originally posted by CEH View Post
                      If Lock is still throwing off his back foot come TC that’s a problem. Highly unlikely though especially if he takes whatever Payton tells him to heart.
                      i think that can be repped out of him. it wont happen till the offseason tho.

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                      • Originally posted by pricejj View Post
                        Lock throws off his back foot for accuracy when pressure is in his face. It's a fade away jump shot that he nails with deadly accuracy from downtown. If he stepped into those throws he would be nailed. He's got a good knack for sensing pressure, waiting to get a perfect throw off, and avoiding contact after the release.
                        Yes, sometimes it's useful. He also does it plenty of times when he doesn't need to and you can find it all over his college tape. That needs to be corrected.

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                        • Originally posted by TonyR View Post

                          "If I'm a DB and I'm playing the Broncos this week, I'm pretty excited."

                          Wow. Amazing how when you get the perspective of a guy who is unbiased and understands what he's seeing it really changes the way you look at it. I haven't watched the whole thing yet but what I've watched so far has tempered my enthusiasm a good bit. The Cutler comps are concerning. Got away with a lot of mistakes that turned into positive plays. Hmm. I guess we'll know more after this week's game.
                          Cutler comparison is fine since they mean skill set. His problem was his attitude and his work ethic on his game. He didnt work that hard at it and was happy collecting checks. Never was any better than year 2. Lock seems to really want to be a good player. He goes through his reads a hell of a lot quicker than Jay did at the same point. The closest Jay throw I saw was double clutch INT.

                          Funny to me that people will talk down On JTO but will take random Twitter guys word if it fits what they want to hear.
                          Last edited by DENVERDUI55; 12-11-2019, 10:35 PM.

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                          • The fade away throws take me back to something Farve said many years ago. You have to be able to make that throw to play QB at a high level in the league.

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                            • But I will say that to some degree, you have to accept you’re going to get the greedy throws from Drew every week, and hope they don’t burn him too often. If you classify QBs as either surgeons or butchers, he’s definitely a classic butcher.

                              Surgeons (Brady, Manning, Montana) will be patient and might attack you with the same play until you stop it. Peyton in particular would just embarrass individual defenders until DCs adjusted. Drew is in the Elway/Favre/Mahomes vein where he will go out of his way to hit kill shots. That’s going to mean holding the ball, exposing himself to more hits and more WTF decisions. On the other hand, you’ll get more big plays, less infuriating 3rd and long checkdowns and more entertainment value.

                              Likely to be a bumpy but fun ride over the next several years.

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                              • Obviously over-simplifying to some degree here, but surgeons are natural fits in Erhardt-Perkins and traditional West Coast offenses. Butchers are natural fits in Air Coryell and Shanahan West Coast offenses. So as fun as it would be to see Drew in, say, a Bruce Arians offense, he actually is a good fit for what Scangs wants to do.
                                Last edited by Aztec Bronco; 12-11-2019, 10:34 PM.

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