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  • #61
    Originally posted by -Rod- View Post

    Ryan Finley was a 4th-round pick, so more like a backup-QB investment, and he was not playing well at all, so I think the path was already clear for the #1 pick and a QB with no questions asked. They are going from a rookie with 47.1 completion % and 62.1 rating to a veteran with 60.4 completion % and 79.2 rating - and the Patriots are the last tough opponent on their schedule. It looks like they are trying to avoid an 0-16 season.
    We have to hope the giants lose out and somehow will have the number one pick.(cinci would have wone the last two games with dalton) after arizona last year of course there is a chance that they will move on from jones (because at least their head coach will be fired ) but i think new york at one will give everybody the best chance to work a trade.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
      Thomas. They’re not in a position to trade up.

      Still want them to build another year. If Lock isn’t the guy after next season, make your move for a QB in 2021.
      Lock isn't the guy. Wait and see, it's just more fool's gold

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Mile High 81 View Post

        We have to hope the giants lose out and somehow will have the number one pick.(cinci would have wone the last two games with dalton) after arizona last year of course there is a chance that they will move on from jones (because at least their head coach will be fired ) but i think new york at one will give everybody the best chance to work a trade.
        Giants won't hesitate to take Chase Young. Gettelman loves him some D Lineman.

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        • #64
          It's going to be an OT in round 1, guys. Bolles has been a flop, even with Munchak coaching. And James can't be counted on for much of anything. This remains one of the weakest lines in the NFL, and Denver is going nowhere until it is substantially improved, period.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by Old Dude View Post
            It's going to be an OT in round 1, guys. Bolles has been a flop, even with Munchak coaching. And James can't be counted on for much of anything. This remains one of the weakest lines in the NFL, and Denver is going nowhere until it is substantially improved, period.
            Its bad for pass blocking. Run blocking we are very good.
            Qb def has some to do with poor pass blocking.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Hercules Rockefeller View Post
              Thomas. They’re not in a position to trade up.

              Still want them to build another year. If Lock isn’t the guy after next season, make your move for a QB in 2021.
              I would be happy with this. I would also consider another big time DL pass rusher in the top 5 if he is the better talent. I prefer going BPA until the last couple picks when you want developmental players. I would just hate to take another LT because we need to if the DE or NT is a better football player. That was how we got into the Bolles situation. Speaking of Bolles, I would move him inside to Leary's spot and see if he can get his holding under control there.

              I think Lock deserves a year to prove himself unless he has been a total bust in practice and can't run Scabby's O. Which can't really be the case if he hasn't had time to practice and for them to evaluate him. I am guessing we will see a new coaching staff too, someone who can develop a young QB, not a mouthbreather who doesn't understand how to gameplan or adjust at halftime.

              All of that said if Burrow is there and that is the BPA on the Broncos board I am fine with them taking him in the 1st. That turns Lock into another Brock at best or Rosen at worse but Lock wasn't taken in the top 10.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

                No one would question taking Burrow rather than riding with Finley in 2020. Are you serious?
                Zac Taylor is supposed to be a offensive genius, his first QB pick was Finley. The Bengals need a QB but they also have other needs and if you have a young QB on the roster who never got a chance to play then there will be a section of fans and pundits who will be that vocal minority and clamor for giving the young guy a chance and pick some other position in the draft.

                It would be the same with the Dolphins and Rosen. Granted he was a much higher selection, but the thought process is the same.
                Imagine how pissed some sections of the fan base will be if we never play Lock this year and then draft a QB. Not all, but some will ask why the **** we took Lock over other needs, never played him and now took someone else.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post

                  Zac Taylor is supposed to be a offensive genius, his first QB pick was Finley. The Bengals need a QB but they also have other needs and if you have a young QB on the roster who never got a chance to play then there will be a section of fans and pundits who will be that vocal minority and clamor for giving the young guy a chance and pick some other position in the draft.

                  It would be the same with the Dolphins and Rosen. Granted he was a much higher selection, but the thought process is the same.
                  Imagine how pissed some sections of the fan base will be if we never play Lock this year and then draft a QB. Not all, but some will ask why the **** we took Lock over other needs, never played him and now took someone else.
                  We’re talking about a 4th rounder vs the best QB in the 2020 draft. No one would care.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

                    We’re talking about a 4th rounder vs the best QB in the 2020 draft. No one would care.
                    You realize that you're talking about NFL fans right? Have you forgotten that there is a section of Broncos fans who refuse to blame Elway for anything even though it all falls at his feet?
                    Have you forgotten that these are fans of the Cincinnati Bengals? You realize these fans celebrated having a mediocre QB in Andy Dalton for years and years?

                    You're are talking about logic. I am talking about fanatics.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by underrated29 View Post

                      Its bad for pass blocking. Run blocking we are very good.
                      Qb def has some to do with poor pass blocking.
                      Our rushing game ranks 21st, both in ypg and ypc. Substantially below average, despite two pretty good running backs. And the run-blocking is going to get even worse now that Janovich is on IR. Our inability to move the pile is a major reason why we suck in the red zone.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

                        At #2 we probably should just take Young ourselves. Von’s time in Denver will be over soon, and Young is the best player in this draft. He’s as close to a guaranteed HoFer as you can get in the draft honestly.
                        Is he really that good? Garrett was supposedly the best in his draft and then Chubb was the best in his and neither are HOF worthy (IMO). Is Young better than either of them?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post

                          You realize that you're talking about NFL fans right? Have you forgotten that there is a section of Broncos fans who refuse to blame Elway for anything even though it all falls at his feet?
                          Have you forgotten that these are fans of the Cincinnati Bengals? You realize these fans celebrated having a mediocre QB in Andy Dalton for years and years?

                          You're are talking about logic. I am talking about fanatics.
                          If you didn't see the Sanders move as a white flag trade and a commitment to a full on rebuild with young talent and the FA's that aren't hurt playing out the year then I don't know what people expected.

                          The Flaccid move was a show from John that he was going to try to win while going through a rebuild that is still a year away from completion. He was hoping Flaccid had enough in him to win us games and take the heat off Lindsay and Royce in the run game and allow us to hopefully win close games by playing complementary football.

                          The problem was the good teams knew to attack our bad OL and Statue QB and without Callahan out there to start the season they had to go through multiple CB's until they found a replacement for Yiadom. Couple that with a 1st time HC who hasn't stood on the sidelines before who doesn't know how to adjust at half time and a 1st time OC who thought it was smart to build game plans in the 1st 4 games around a rookie TE who had a clear weakness as a blocker at the college level. Oh and Scabby's love of TE screens and TE jet sweeps when you need 1 yard on 3rd down.

                          Is it John's fault for hiring this staff, yes I totally agree. Is it his fault for how these guys are coaching the players they have? Nope. Is it John's fault Flaccid and Allen throw redzone INT's or CHJ gives up long TD passes or Vic calls a TO with 2 seconds to go in the 3rd quarter? Nope.

                          The problem was that after SB50 John wasn't willing to blow up the team the following year. He still had a great D, Wade, Kubes, everything but a QB. Buttfumble doesn't work out but a 6th round pick does well enough to help the team to a 9 win season, Kubes gets sick and misses games and our ST's standin blew a game, Siemian gets hurt because of a weak OL is never the same after.

                          The right move would have been to have a fire sale in the post SB offseason and reload with a manageable cap. Instead he kept trying to win and allowed the Cap to get to the point where it blew everything up this year under another 1st time HC.

                          John has us positioned to win next year. The cap will be down to the point where he can afford to bring in impact FA's. He got value for Sanders and we will draft high for a 3rd straight year. His last 2 drafts have been stellar. We found players at NT, ILB, even CB that are cheap and upgrades over what we had at the start of the year. I admit I have been very hard on the D but that was supposed to be our strength, we lost Chubb and never had Callahan. Shelby played great in the PS at NT but had to be moved to DE in part because of his bad play and the in part because Gotsis was bad. Walker got on the field and played ok for a few games and then they put Gotsis back in. AJ took over for Jewel because he got hurt but AJ turned out to be a huge upgrade. Davis is still bad. The play calling on D has cost us scoring drives that cost us games, there are the totally undisguised 3 man rushes where they send Davis (an ILB) as the 3rd rusher. Then when they send everyone they can't get to the QB in time. They have failed rushing 4 on 3rd and long too so there is fail all around.

                          Not having a true owner who has a vision hurts this team as well.

                          Anyone expecting a playoff run with a 1st time HC in his 60's had bright orange glasses on. All I wanted out of this coaching staff was progress and I haven't seen it.

                          If your going to blame one person at the top then you are over looking Ellis as the president and CEO Here is his Bio:

                          Joe Ellis is in his ninth season as President of the Denver Broncos in 2019 and his sixth year as Chief Executive Officer after adding those responsibilities in 2014.In his 25th overall season with the Broncos, Ellis owns extensive experience and expertise at both the club and league level through his 30-plus years in the NFL. Having worked with late Pro Football Hall of Fame Owner Pat Bowlen for nearly three decades, Ellis has been entrusted to operate the team with full authority while serving as the Broncos’ representation for all league matters.

                          He has the authority to fire John and he hasn't.

                          I fully expect John to serve out his 5 year deal and by next year have this hot mess pointed in the right direction. Look at Ozzie Newsome's career with the Ravens, they won their 1st title in 2001 and their 2nd under him in 2013. John took us to 2 SB's in 2 years. I can wait another year or 2 to get back to playoff contention knowing how hard it is to replace a HOF QB after watching what happenend to the Broncos in 1999 until John took over as GM.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by broncosteven View Post

                            If you didn't see the Sanders move as a white flag trade and a commitment to a full on rebuild with young talent and the FA's that aren't hurt playing out the year then I don't know what people expected.

                            The Flaccid move was a show from John that he was going to try to win while going through a rebuild that is still a year away from completion. He was hoping Flaccid had enough in him to win us games and take the heat off Lindsay and Royce in the run game and allow us to hopefully win close games by playing complementary football.

                            The problem was the good teams knew to attack our bad OL and Statue QB and without Callahan out there to start the season they had to go through multiple CB's until they found a replacement for Yiadom. Couple that with a 1st time HC who hasn't stood on the sidelines before who doesn't know how to adjust at half time and a 1st time OC who thought it was smart to build game plans in the 1st 4 games around a rookie TE who had a clear weakness as a blocker at the college level. Oh and Scabby's love of TE screens and TE jet sweeps when you need 1 yard on 3rd down.

                            Is it John's fault for hiring this staff, yes I totally agree. Is it his fault for how these guys are coaching the players they have? Nope. Is it John's fault Flaccid and Allen throw redzone INT's or CHJ gives up long TD passes or Vic calls a TO with 2 seconds to go in the 3rd quarter? Nope.

                            The problem was that after SB50 John wasn't willing to blow up the team the following year. He still had a great D, Wade, Kubes, everything but a QB. Buttfumble doesn't work out but a 6th round pick does well enough to help the team to a 9 win season, Kubes gets sick and misses games and our ST's standin blew a game, Siemian gets hurt because of a weak OL is never the same after.

                            The right move would have been to have a fire sale in the post SB offseason and reload with a manageable cap. Instead he kept trying to win and allowed the Cap to get to the point where it blew everything up this year under another 1st time HC.

                            John has us positioned to win next year. The cap will be down to the point where he can afford to bring in impact FA's. He got value for Sanders and we will draft high for a 3rd straight year. His last 2 drafts have been stellar. We found players at NT, ILB, even CB that are cheap and upgrades over what we had at the start of the year. I admit I have been very hard on the D but that was supposed to be our strength, we lost Chubb and never had Callahan. Shelby played great in the PS at NT but had to be moved to DE in part because of his bad play and the in part because Gotsis was bad. Walker got on the field and played ok for a few games and then they put Gotsis back in. AJ took over for Jewel because he got hurt but AJ turned out to be a huge upgrade. Davis is still bad. The play calling on D has cost us scoring drives that cost us games, there are the totally undisguised 3 man rushes where they send Davis (an ILB) as the 3rd rusher. Then when they send everyone they can't get to the QB in time. They have failed rushing 4 on 3rd and long too so there is fail all around.

                            Not having a true owner who has a vision hurts this team as well.

                            Anyone expecting a playoff run with a 1st time HC in his 60's had bright orange glasses on. All I wanted out of this coaching staff was progress and I haven't seen it.

                            If your going to blame one person at the top then you are over looking Ellis as the president and CEO Here is his Bio:

                            Joe Ellis is in his ninth season as President of the Denver Broncos in 2019 and his sixth year as Chief Executive Officer after adding those responsibilities in 2014.In his 25th overall season with the Broncos, Ellis owns extensive experience and expertise at both the club and league level through his 30-plus years in the NFL. Having worked with late Pro Football Hall of Fame Owner Pat Bowlen for nearly three decades, Ellis has been entrusted to operate the team with full authority while serving as the Broncos’ representation for all league matters.

                            He has the authority to fire John and he hasn't.

                            I fully expect John to serve out his 5 year deal and by next year have this hot mess pointed in the right direction. Look at Ozzie Newsome's career with the Ravens, they won their 1st title in 2001 and their 2nd under him in 2013. John took us to 2 SB's in 2 years. I can wait another year or 2 to get back to playoff contention knowing how hard it is to replace a HOF QB after watching what happenend to the Broncos in 1999 until John took over as GM.
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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by rmsanger View Post

                              Is he really that good? Garrett was supposedly the best in his draft and then Chubb was the best in his and neither are HOF worthy (IMO). Is Young better than either of them?
                              I hate to say this but IF he is on the right team...Young has the potential to be better than Von.

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                              • #75

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