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Elway doesn't have a rebuild in him

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  • Elway doesn't have a rebuild in him

    When you read the quotes "I don't have 3 years to wait for QB to develope." or more resently, "I think we're on the rise" and a bunch of other quotes about how this football team is still good enough to win games.....

    He's not going to tear this thing down and start over. He doesn't handle losing well....and by that I mean, as a competetor, and someone who is a "winner" Elway will ALWAYS try and fix things now. Not later. It's why he's gone through so many coaches and QB's in the last 4 years.

    He is STUCK. (and thus the Broncos are stuck) How can he move on from Fangio after 1 year? Who would want the job? And the assistants? All them gone and all needing replaced....AGAIN?

    What about Elway's quotes from the offseason about not having time to develop a young QB? You all will almost certainly counter with "but he drafted Lock!" He did...Lock wasn't a plan....Lock wasn't someone to wait on while losing. Lock wasn't brought on board to partner up with the new coach and his new program. That's Flacco.

    Recent quotes also indicate Elway is pleased with Flacco.

    So....reading the tea leaves here (not hard, you all should try it sometime)

    Elway thinks this team is CLOSE. He likes his QB. He believes in the coaching staff. He is impatient. He has lots of cap space next year.

    Couple that with Fangio being completely the wrong coach for a high end QB prospect, and a commitment from the FO for AT LEAST another season...

    You won't get a rebuild in the sense that they'll tear it down to the ground and start over. What you will get is year 2 of Elmer Fudd and Flacid. An infusion of free agents, and high draft choices spent on linemen.

    In a way, the 2019 season with Fudd/Flaccid IS, for all intents and purposes, a John Elway rebuild...or as close to one as Elway would ever admit to undertaking. I frankly don't see ANYONE being traded.....to do so would be an admission of a rebuild....and that's isn't what's going on in Denver.

  • #2
    We can all look at this from 1000 different angles, some hope for this and some hope for that, in the end, it is what it is, we are all just along for the ride. I remember in the past I could be upset for days after a loss. Now, I'm just pissed for a few hours and then I move on. It's out of our control. But there's no saving this season that's for sure, just have to embrace the tank and hope for a great draft, and not get too down this year.

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    • #3
      To build a contender you have to hold onto the good players. Can Denver do that after this disaster? The team is only a half dozen players away from having a winner. Three difference makers on the defense and 2-3 offensive linemen might turn it around. Flacco is the least of our problems.

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      • #4
        We just need to reload. That’s what Elway said when first took over in 2011. This team has more talent than that team. It turned around quickly with great defensive drafts and free agency. We added Von Miller and undrafted Chris Harris. Then we got Manning the next year and drafted Derek Wolfe, Danny Trevathan, and Malik Jackson.

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        • #5
          You're just posting the same **** over and over again and it's pretty obnoxious. Can we have one "Zerovoltz trolls" thread and clean things up a bit?

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          • #6
            NO one rebuilds. no one gives a young QB 3 years to develop. This isn't 1988.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jmz313 View Post
              NO one rebuilds. no one gives a young QB 3 years to develop. This isn't 1988.
              So, the Bills aren't going to give Josh Allen 2-3 years to see what they've got? The Bears aren't rolling with Trubisky next year? ....Jameis Winston...........Marcus Mariotta?

              I agree with you that basically, you ought to know after 16 starts, what you've got and that if you need 3 years to figure it out, you've probalby got the wrong guy, but I wouldn't say "NOBODY" gives these guys that kind of time. Plenty of crappy QB's getting LONG looks.

              As far as NO ONE rebuilding....the Bills Hired Sean McDermott in 2017. They basically cut every veteran and bad contract they had, and carried 70 million in dead cap space last year. They drafted Josh Allen, and this offseason started to sign free agents. This is year 3 of McDermott rebuild.

              how long do you suppose Kingsbury and Murray will get in Arizona? Just this season?

              Lynch and Shanahan in SF are now into year 3 of Garrapolo and their "rebuild".

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post

                So, the Bills aren't going to give Josh Allen 2-3 years to see what they've got? The Bears aren't rolling with Trubisky next year? ....Jameis Winston...........Marcus Mariotta?

                Allen, tribisky, winston, mariotta are have 3 Years to get it done. Not to reach their NFL starting QB potential if they don't, they will be moved on from. Mariotta is already looking at being replaced.

                I think our definitions of "develop" are different.

                Also Mcdermott Made the playoffs with his team in 2017. he didn't rebuild them as much as he put the right players in and coached them. That's the new NFL "rebuild/reload" not the old Stock picks and deal with 3 years of pain for 7 years of dominance. That went away with free agency.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post


                  Lynch and Shanahan in SF are now into year 3 of Garrapolo and their "rebuild".
                  Well, once they win something we can crown them "rebuilt" but until then they are still spinning their wheels.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post

                    So, the Bills aren't going to give Josh Allen 2-3 years to see what they've got? The Bears aren't rolling with Trubisky next year? ....Jameis Winston...........Marcus Mariotta?

                    I agree with you that basically, you ought to know after 16 starts, what you've got and that if you need 3 years to figure it out, you've probalby got the wrong guy, but I wouldn't say "NOBODY" gives these guys that kind of time. Plenty of crappy QB's getting LONG looks.

                    As far as NO ONE rebuilding....the Bills Hired Sean McDermott in 2017. They basically cut every veteran and bad contract they had, and carried 70 million in dead cap space last year. They drafted Josh Allen, and this offseason started to sign free agents. This is year 3 of McDermott rebuild.

                    how long do you suppose Kingsbury and Murray will get in Arizona? Just this season?

                    Lynch and Shanahan in SF are now into year 3 of Garrapolo and their "rebuild".
                    clueless as usual
                    lynch was suppose to start in 2016 just like all other first round QBs. That is called a rebuild

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                    • #11
                      Merely replacing the QB isn't a rebuild.

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                      • #12
                        Ok....what is a rebuild then? I would tend to think it would have quite a bit to do with tearing down a roster and almost always involves a new QB. I know the Bills made the playoffs in McDermotts first year. The plan from the beginning was to turn that roster over and draft a QB....and after having made the playoffs, they did exactly what they had planned to do.

                        San Fransisco....I am not arguing about calling what they are doing a failure or success.....but I would call it a rebuild. Lynch and Shannahan have turned the roster over, aquired a new starting QB in year 1 of their program. I wouldn't call what they've done thus far successful, but I would call it a rebuild.

                        When I say the Broncos...and specifically Elway, doesn't have a rebuild in store...I am talking about tearing down the roster, getting the old, large contracts out the door...you eat a whole year going young, and either you draft a QB the same year, or you are tearing it down in preparation for drafting that QB.

                        When the Broncos drafted Lynch, that was an honest attempt to get the next long term, franchise QB, and keep things going. Not a rebuild. Same as KC drafting Mahomes...the program was underway. Or Rogers being drafted by Green Bay....that wasn't a rebuild.

                        The Broncos and Elway are STILL operating like they are working with a roster that has super bowl caliber talent and they are just a player or 2 and good coaching away from being right back in a super bowl again. What do you suppose Elway meant when he said he didn't have 3 years to develop a QB? What does he mean now when he says they are on the rise and he beleives they are CLOSE...? I wouldn't think he'd ever say, 4 games into any season..."wow, we suck, time to rebuild" but his comments over time, suggest he isn't intrested in tearing the thing down, and the losses that inevitably come with that, when he knows....that in the NFL, you can get right back on track again in a year with some good signings, and a draft pick or 2. Elway is gonig to throw all the ammo he can, at winning NOW in 2020....not objectively looking at his roster and concluding it's time to start over.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
                          Ok....what is a rebuild then? I would tend to think it would have quite a bit to do with tearing down a roster and almost always involves a new QB. I know the Bills made the playoffs in McDermotts first year. The plan from the beginning was to turn that roster over and draft a QB....and after having made the playoffs, they did exactly what they had planned to do.

                          San Fransisco....I am not arguing about calling what they are doing a failure or success.....but I would call it a rebuild. Lynch and Shannahan have turned the roster over, aquired a new starting QB in year 1 of their program. I wouldn't call what they've done thus far successful, but I would call it a rebuild.

                          When I say the Broncos...and specifically Elway, doesn't have a rebuild in store...I am talking about tearing down the roster, getting the old, large contracts out the door...you eat a whole year going young, and either you draft a QB the same year, or you are tearing it down in preparation for drafting that QB.

                          When the Broncos drafted Lynch, that was an honest attempt to get the next long term, franchise QB, and keep things going. Not a rebuild. Same as KC drafting Mahomes...the program was underway. Or Rogers being drafted by Green Bay....that wasn't a rebuild.

                          The Broncos and Elway are STILL operating like they are working with a roster that has super bowl caliber talent and they are just a player or 2 and good coaching away from being right back in a super bowl again. What do you suppose Elway meant when he said he didn't have 3 years to develop a QB? What does he mean now when he says they are on the rise and he beleives they are CLOSE...? I wouldn't think he'd ever say, 4 games into any season..."wow, we suck, time to rebuild" but his comments over time, suggest he isn't intrested in tearing the thing down, and the losses that inevitably come with that, when he knows....that in the NFL, you can get right back on track again in a year with some good signings, and a draft pick or 2. Elway is gonig to throw all the ammo he can, at winning NOW in 2020....not objectively looking at his roster and concluding it's time to start over.
                          We all see your agenda, again. You are trying to oversimplify terms that aren't even necessary for this discussion.

                          Did Elway rebuild the McDaniels catastrophe with John Fox and a new staff, yes. Years from rebuild to Super Bowl appearance - 3.
                          Other accomplishments during this period. One of the best offensive units in league history. Result - lost Super Bowl.

                          Did Elway rebuild the Broncos after the 2013 Super Bowl blowout loss, yes. Years from rebuild to Super Bowl appearance - 2.
                          Other accomplishments during this period. One of the best defensive units in league history. Result - won Super Bowl.

                          Can he do it again? Not sure, but what other GM in the league has been able to "rebuild" a roster to the same effect as Elway? Answer that honestly, because there may only be 1-2 GMs that could enter the conversation. Maybe Howie Roseman for the Eagles and Les Snead for the Rams? The Eagles actually won one, the Rams appeared in one, but they certainly rebuilt rosters well.

                          Who out there has a better proven record or rebuilding championship teams than Elway? He did it as a player, he did it in the arena league, and he's done it in the NFL.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
                            Ok....what is a rebuild then? I would tend to think it would have quite a bit to do with tearing down a roster and almost always involves a new QB. I know the Bills made the playoffs in McDermotts first year. The plan from the beginning was to turn that roster over and draft a QB....and after having made the playoffs, they did exactly what they had planned to do.

                            San Fransisco....I am not arguing about calling what they are doing a failure or success.....but I would call it a rebuild. Lynch and Shannahan have turned the roster over, aquired a new starting QB in year 1 of their program. I wouldn't call what they've done thus far successful, but I would call it a rebuild.

                            When I say the Broncos...and specifically Elway, doesn't have a rebuild in store...I am talking about tearing down the roster, getting the old, large contracts out the door...you eat a whole year going young, and either you draft a QB the same year, or you are tearing it down in preparation for drafting that QB.

                            When the Broncos drafted Lynch, that was an honest attempt to get the next long term, franchise QB, and keep things going. Not a rebuild. Same as KC drafting Mahomes...the program was underway. Or Rogers being drafted by Green Bay....that wasn't a rebuild.

                            The Broncos and Elway are STILL operating like they are working with a roster that has super bowl caliber talent and they are just a player or 2 and good coaching away from being right back in a super bowl again. What do you suppose Elway meant when he said he didn't have 3 years to develop a QB? What does he mean now when he says they are on the rise and he beleives they are CLOSE...? I wouldn't think he'd ever say, 4 games into any season..."wow, we suck, time to rebuild" but his comments over time, suggest he isn't intrested in tearing the thing down, and the losses that inevitably come with that, when he knows....that in the NFL, you can get right back on track again in a year with some good signings, and a draft pick or 2. Elway is gonig to throw all the ammo he can, at winning NOW in 2020....not objectively looking at his roster and concluding it's time to start over.
                            You are basically describing all but 6-8 teams in the NFL. There are the contenders and the teams looking for their next move.

                            Any team peyton manning went to in 2012 was going to win the division. it doesn't mean the team "rebuilt". rebuilding is an illusion in FA. You don't build teams for long term anymore. At best you luck into the generational QB talent and ride that wave.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post

                              So, the Bills aren't going to give Josh Allen 2-3 years to see what they've got? The Bears aren't rolling with Trubisky next year? ....Jameis Winston...........Marcus Mariotta?
                              One year plus a partial if he bombs. More years after that, he at least has to partially earn.

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