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If the Colts offered us the rights to Andrew Luck for Drew Lock straight up, would you take it?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post


    Then the Colts paid him HUUUUGE, and then they could not surround him with talent. Hate to tell you this, but it is virtually impossible to adequately fill everything once any ONE PLAYER takes up that much money in a hard cap league.

    ​​​​​​
    This is a false narrative floating around. QBs cost money and the colts had more cap room than anyone this year. Cap isnt hard too since it goes up every year and the QB salary gets cheaper as the years go on. Same thing was said when Denver signed Manning yet they signed a ton of FAs

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post
      How many of his 13 ints that he threw in his 8 playoff games were his fault? Any? All someone else's fault?

      Based on what everyone crowned him to be and what he actually accomplished. It is a joke.

      Then the Colts paid him HUUUUGE, and then they could not surround him with talent. Hate to tell you this, but it is virtually impossible to adequately fill everything once any ONE PLAYER takes up that much money in a hard cap league.

      I know, I know, the Colts were all just incompetent. Well, they did have some pretty decent skill position guys. Their OL last year was amazing. Not for nothing, but Russell Wilson has been sacked at twice the rate of Luck in his career. That is based on how many sacks per attempt.

      Based on what this was supposed to be......

      We saw him last week doing drills. He was cutting and no wincing with pain. He has his best OL probably in his career. Team is pretty damn loaded. Never been safer to be a QB. There are 40 year old QBs putting up huge numbers still.

      Sick of the Luck love. He was good, but nowhere near what he was supposed to be. Irsay paid him huge money. Hired the coaches that he wanted. If I were a Colts fan.....

      Whatever....

      Which one of the 13 ints that he threw in his 8 playoff games were his fault?
      There is a lot wrong with this post. The most obvious is the entitled attitude your presenting. Luck does not owe you anything. He does not owe the Colts anything either. They failed to build a good team around him. The Colts dicked around with him and this is what happens.

      Everyone has a different response to injury and recovery. As Luck himself said, a 4 year cycle of injury, pain, rehab took a toll on him. It would rob you of any desire to continue to get hurt just to play a game and would suck the fun out of it. He was done. Will he be in a year? Who knows. But as of right now, dude's mentally done with it. Being able to retire before the age of 30 with at least $40 million in the bank and not having to worry about getting crushed by 300+ pound dudes every week is a bonus.

      The Colts did pay him huge, and in the season they did pay him huge, they did tighten up their cap. But in the seasons since 2016, the Colts had $22 million, $54 million, $55 million left over in cap space. Even with Luck's "omg too huge to be real salary". Grigson and the Colts FO did not do him a ton of favors. He was sacked 100 times in his first three seasons, only had a 1000 yard rusher in the backfield with him once (Frank Gore, 1,025 yards in 2016), and the only time he had two consistent threats at WR was in 2012, with Reggie Wayne and a rookie TY Hilton. He never had an overall defense in the top 10, and had a top 10 scoring defense twice, in 2014 and 2018 (21.0, 21.3 ppg).

      As for the playoff stats...Elway had 11 TDs and 12 INTs his first 8 playoff games, with a 4-4 record. Manning had 14 TDs and 8 INTs, 3-5 record. Luck? 12 Tds/13 INTs. Playoff record? 4-4. All three reached a conference title game by year 3. Both Luck and Elway led relatively talent poor teams into the playoffs. Luck is an example of what happens when a franchise is lucky to get a franchise QB (back to back!) and then squanders his health and failing to adequately give him a supporting cast. The fault here lies with the Colts, not Luck. Good for Andrew for saying **** this, I choose life.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post

        This is a false narrative floating around. QBs cost money and the colts had more cap room than anyone this year. Cap isnt hard too since it goes up every year and the QB salary gets cheaper as the years go on. Same thing was said when Denver signed Manning yet they signed a ton of FAs
        Interesting when Luck moved out of the top 6 highest paid QBs (none of which last year made the playoffs) they were able to field a team. Meaning, they greatly upgraded the OL. Nelson being a potential perennial pro bowler.

        Brady figured it out a while ago, hence the reason he had been the 17th highest paid QB over the last half a decade or so. Peyton Manning also did some restructuring to get certain players signed.

        Many people think the best friend to a QBs success are great wideouts etc or a RB. No, it is a solid OL and great defense. Those two UNITS cost big money. Great OLs make average QBs good and good QBs great. The reverse is true. Statistically, the Seahawks line has actually been worse than the Colts.

        Look at the great QBs with rings. See how many of them just so happened to get rings when their OLs (balanced offense) and/or defense are dynamic. Especially if one of those are great.

        Tom Bradys first 3 rings he had a GREAT DEFENSE. One, shutting down the greatest show on turf.

        Anyway, he restructured his contract to improve that area among other areas. Then again, Brady is ABOUT THE RINGS. Others, not so much.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Archer81 View Post

          There is a lot wrong with this post. The most obvious is the entitled attitude your presenting. Luck does not owe you anything. He does not owe the Colts anything either. They failed to build a good team around him. The Colts dicked around with him and this is what happens.

          Everyone has a different response to injury and recovery. As Luck himself said, a 4 year cycle of injury, pain, rehab took a toll on him. It would rob you of any desire to continue to get hurt just to play a game and would suck the fun out of it. He was done. Will he be in a year? Who knows. But as of right now, dude's mentally done with it. Being able to retire before the age of 30 with at least $40 million in the bank and not having to worry about getting crushed by 300+ pound dudes every week is a bonus.

          The Colts did pay him huge, and in the season they did pay him huge, they did tighten up their cap. But in the seasons since 2016, the Colts had $22 million, $54 million, $55 million left over in cap space. Even with Luck's "omg too huge to be real salary". Grigson and the Colts FO did not do him a ton of favors. He was sacked 100 times in his first three seasons, only had a 1000 yard rusher in the backfield with him once (Frank Gore, 1,025 yards in 2016), and the only time he had two consistent threats at WR was in 2012, with Reggie Wayne and a rookie TY Hilton. He never had an overall defense in the top 10, and had a top 10 scoring defense twice, in 2014 and 2018 (21.0, 21.3 ppg).

          As for the playoff stats...Elway had 11 TDs and 12 INTs his first 8 playoff games, with a 4-4 record. Manning had 14 TDs and 8 INTs, 3-5 record. Luck? 12 Tds/13 INTs. Playoff record? 4-4. All three reached a conference title game by year 3. Both Luck and Elway led relatively talent poor teams into the playoffs. Luck is an example of what happens when a franchise is lucky to get a franchise QB (back to back!) and then squanders his health and failing to adequately give him a supporting cast. The fault here lies with the Colts, not Luck. Good for Andrew for saying **** this, I choose life.
          I was one of a very few that was not all that impressed with Elway. Not until he was saddled with the offense he was a prototype for and that was the West Coast offense. He was the quintessential West Coast QB. He knew the offense well, where he thrived in at Stanford. He had the necessary mobility and an arm that was significantly stronger than Montana's. Bill Walsh did express interest in trading for Elway with the Colts in 1983. Would have been scary to see Elway in that offense. We saw him when he was no longer as mobile and arm not as strong. He was 7 and 1 in the playoffs and his stats significantly improved .

          But Elway was a bit of a disappointment in his first part of his career, despite 3 SB appearances.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post
            No. He's not into the game right now and doesn't love it. He's set up for life. His family is loaded, he's got a degree in architecture, he has ins with business, media and athletic connections through his father. There is no reason for him to play football and no reason to trade for him.
            all true ,but ther is a chance he may want to return to the game ...
            we should trade our peyton manning interests for him straight-up.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post

              I was one of a very few that was not all that impressed with Elway. Not until he was saddled with the offense he was a prototype for and that was the West Coast offense. He was the quintessential West Coast QB. He knew the offense well, where he thrived in at Stanford. He had the necessary mobility and an arm that was significantly stronger than Montana's. Bill Walsh did express interest in trading for Elway with the Colts in 1983. Would have been scary to see Elway in that offense. We saw him when he was no longer as mobile and arm not as strong. He was 7 and 1 in the playoffs and his stats significantly improved .

              But Elway was a bit of a disappointment in his first part of his career, despite 3 SB appearances.
              You are putting a lot on Johns shoulders. Reeves pound the ball with below average RBs then hope the above average D could get the back and play FP to score limited John in a huge way, at least until the end of games where Reeves would take the leash off and let him do his thing. I guess there were times depending on FP to start a drive where Reeves would let Shanny call a bomb early but even then that was to set up the 3 yards and a cloud of dust handoffs and the dink’s to RBs in the flat.

              Reeves lived vicariously through RBs who were like him, could do a little of everything and tough out a few yards to keep drives moving.

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              • #22
                If Luck is afraid of more injuries playing behind Indy's offensive line, it's hard to imagine him wanting to play behind Denver's. The dude is done. Let him be.



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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Old Dude View Post
                  If Luck is afraid of more injuries playing behind Indy's offensive line, it's hard to imagine him wanting to play behind Denver's. The dude is done. Let him be.
                  I don't think Luck feared playing. I think Luck realized even with the world's best offensive line, you still can get hurt. And did he want to go through another cycle of rehabbing and hitting benchmarks and doctors and scans and tests and and and. Clearly the answer at this point for him is no. That is the reason a lot of players quit. Its not lack of ability or poor physical health, but the entire grind of it all. Because of the last 4 years, that retirement clock sped up for Luck.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post

                    I was one of a very few that was not all that impressed with Elway. Not until he was saddled with the offense he was a prototype for and that was the West Coast offense. He was the quintessential West Coast QB. He knew the offense well, where he thrived in at Stanford. He had the necessary mobility and an arm that was significantly stronger than Montana's. Bill Walsh did express interest in trading for Elway with the Colts in 1983. Would have been scary to see Elway in that offense. We saw him when he was no longer as mobile and arm not as strong. He was 7 and 1 in the playoffs and his stats significantly improved .

                    But Elway was a bit of a disappointment in his first part of his career, despite 3 SB appearances.
                    You must think Dan Marino is hot garbage

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by broncosteven View Post

                      You are putting a lot on Johns shoulders. Reeves pound the ball with below average RBs then hope the above average D could get the back and play FP to score limited John in a huge way, at least until the end of games where Reeves would take the leash off and let him do his thing. I guess there were times depending on FP to start a drive where Reeves would let Shanny call a bomb early but even then that was to set up the 3 yards and a cloud of dust handoffs and the dink’s to RBs in the flat.

                      Reeves lived vicariously through RBs who were like him, could do a little of everything and tough out a few yards to keep drives moving.
                      We don't have enough appreciation for Reeves here. He was about balance but he was not Marty ball or Ground Chuck knox. He was considered to be quite innovative with the offenses he ran with Staubach (Elways idol.) Elway bartered his way out of the Colts, not because of Irsay but the offense run by Frank Kush. Who made Marty look like Don Coryell.

                      Anyway, Reeves proved he could coach and he should be in HoF too. He took Chris Chandler to the SB for God's sake.

                      It is just that most QBs are better suited to play certain offenses. Elway was a quintessential West Coast offense QB and thank God he got to play in it at the end of his career.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Also once a vested Vet retires doesn’t his contract expire and he is a FA should he decide to play again?

                        guys retire all the time and come back a year later signing with another team. Maybe Luck is taking a year to heal up and then see if Brady retires next year.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post
                          When you have Lock, you don't need Luck.
                          boooooooosh!!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by broncosteven View Post
                            Also once a vested Vet retires doesn’t his contract expire and he is a FA should he decide to play again?

                            guys retire all the time and come back a year later signing with another team. Maybe Luck is taking a year to heal up and then see if Brady retires next year.
                            I thought retirement meant you give up any money left on a contract, but you probably have to sit out a year, but you can sign with any team moving forward?

                            Anyone know how it works?

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                            • #29
                              I would rather trade the rights to Peyton Manning to Kansas City for Mahomes.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Broncoblood32 View Post

                                We don't have enough appreciation for Reeves here. He was about balance but he was not Marty ball or Ground Chuck knox. He was considered to be quite innovative with the offenses he ran with Staubach (Elways idol.) Elway bartered his way out of the Colts, not because of Irsay but the offense run by Frank Kush. Who made Marty look like Don Coryell.

                                Anyway, Reeves proved he could coach and he should be in HoF too. He took Chris Chandler to the SB for God's sake.

                                It is just that most QBs are better suited to play certain offenses. Elway was a quintessential West Coast offense QB and thank God he got to play in it at the end of his career.
                                Can you imagine if Elway had Sam Wyche(sp?) as HC instead of Reeves?

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