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  • Fumble Benching

    Do you really think this is effective or is it just old-school neanderthal football culture? I guess it's not a black & white deal, but I think it was a bad idea last game.
    I think you can also hurt the team by taking your talent off the field. I'm not certain they gain anything by benching- nobody wants to fumble. If it's Ridley and he has fumbled 4 games in a row I can see it. But this one fumble and you banished stuff is kind of extreme.

    FWIW, Tom Nalen agrees -

    As far as what went wrong for the Broncos, Nalen said they were running the ball well and towards the end of the game when Knowshon Moreno was starting to wear down they should have played Montee Ball more.

    “Ball looked like the best back out there. He had the most explosive burst in his running game and looked like he was very confident,” Nalen said. “By sitting him on the sidelines because he fumbled … I think it hurt the team a little bit and maybe hurt his confidence.”


    http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/11/2...h-in-the-face/

  • #2
    The few bursts I've seen from Ball in the last several games have been really encouraging. You absolutely cannot give up fumbles, but I agree that pulling any good RB after one fumble is not the best way to instill confidence. I think you maybe pull them from a series, have a chat about holding the rock, give a little encouragement, then send them back out there. If they fumble twice in a game, then you've got a serious problem.

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    • #3
      My issue with it is that we ran a crippled Moreno at a crucial point in the game instead of going with a fresh Ball. That's just stupid. Two carries for a guy who literally limped off the field moments before, with the game on the line.

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      • #4
        I think JDR's move of benching Ball after the fumble absolutely hurt the Broncos. Now, I'm a big Anderson fan too but the fact is that the muffed handoff was because Manning and Anderson are not used to each other and consequently there was almost another turnover.

        Ball should have been playing. Period. End of story. Shame on JDR for being such a pansy ass HC.

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        • #5
          The person I feel bad for, is Anderson. Manning botched the handoff, and Anderson took all the blame...

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
            I think JDR's move of benching Ball after the fumble absolutely hurt the Broncos. Now, I'm a big Anderson fan too but the fact is that the muffed handoff was because Manning and Anderson are not used to each other and consequently there was almost another turnover.

            Ball should have been playing. Period. End of story. Shame on JDR for being such a pansy ass HC.
            Agree 100%. Ball in the game late when Moreno went to the bench could have led us to a win. He was running well.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TonyR View Post
              My issue with it is that we ran a crippled Moreno at a crucial point in the game instead of going with a fresh Ball. That's just stupid. Two carries for a guy who literally limped off the field moments before, with the game on the line.
              all true, but what is also true is that Ball does not seem to know the plays, has trouble lining up, cant honor a blocking assignment and his insecurity about the play call is probably at the foundation of his lack of confidence, insecurity and fumbling!
              CJ looked lopst when he too entered the game!
              maybe hillman, who looked like he knew the plays in pre-season, can pull a moreno and go from dog house to penthouse?
              Save Ball for the goal line where he knows the playcalls and formations.

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              • #8
                In many cases, I agree with the benching, especially with the young guys. Apparently, the technique has worked for Moreno as he hasn't fumbled all year, and I don't remember him fumbling last year after he got out of the doghouse. So maybe it works with some guys.

                However, in the case with Ball, I agree with Nalen. I think it hurt the team not having him out there. He was very effective and moving the chains a bit himself. CJ looked like the moment was a little too big for him at times. Ball's benching could have been for a couple of series or so, but near the end of the 4th and in OT, I think he could have really helped, and maybe Moreno doesn't get hurt.

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                • #9
                  Absolutely agree with OP. Sit him a series, give him a part on the back and send him back out. Ball will be fine. We definitely could have used him during that OT period.

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                  • #10
                    as for the original question, I cant vouch for the effectiveness. but, if a team has a different RB that offers more ball security, then it is the right move,JMHO.
                    Odd that a QB can fumble multiple times or throw multiple INTs and his turnovers are treated differently by most coaches.
                    I guess that too depends on who the #2 QB is.
                    working on better ball carring technique is more effective than punishment.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tombstone RJ View Post
                      I think JDR's move of benching Ball after the fumble absolutely hurt the Broncos. Now, I'm a big Anderson fan too but the fact is that the muffed handoff was because Manning and Anderson are not used to each other and consequently there was almost another turnover.

                      Ball should have been playing. Period. End of story. Shame on JDR for being such a pansy ass HC.
                      I agree, but Belichick did the same thing with TWO of his running backs.

                      Just as someone who's neurotic, i think its hurtful to bench guys for fumbling because they will be terrified of making the same mistake next time out. And while that sounds like the point, it actually makes you tentative, not only opening you up for the same mistake again, but naturally making you less aggressive.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by R8R H8R View Post
                        In many cases, I agree with the benching, especially with the young guys. Apparently, the technique has worked for Moreno as he hasn't fumbled all year, and I don't remember him fumbling last year after he got out of the doghouse. So maybe it works with some guys.

                        However, in the case with Ball, I agree with Nalen. I think it hurt the team not having him out there. He was very effective and moving the chains a bit himself. CJ looked like the moment was a little too big for him at times. Ball's benching could have been for a couple of series or so, but near the end of the 4th and in OT, I think he could have really helped, and maybe Moreno doesn't get hurt.
                        It looked like Moreno got hurt getting up off the field. I love his style but if you're stuck under a big ugly, don't twist your ankle or knock it on the guys helmet trying to be the first guy off of the field.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DenverBound View Post
                          Absolutely agree with OP. Sit him a series, give him a part on the back and send him back out. Ball will be fine. We definitely could have used him during that OT period.
                          CJ was running pretty well too. It was just a mistake to bring knowshon back on a gimpy leg. Props to him for sucking it up, but they should have known not to send a guy back out there that was on a knee and wincing only a minute before.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CHEF LUIGI View Post
                            as for the original question, I cant vouch for the effectiveness. but, if a team has a different RB that offers more ball security, then it is the right move,JMHO.
                            Odd that a QB can fumble multiple times or throw multiple INTs and his turnovers are treated differently by most coaches.
                            I guess that too depends on who the #2 QB is.
                            working on better ball carring technique is more effective than punishment.
                            I think that's the whole argument here. We didn't have that next guy that could be trusted. Might as well give Tatum a call.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CHEF LUIGI View Post
                              all true, but what is also true is that Ball does not seem to know the plays, has trouble lining up, cant honor a blocking assignment and his insecurity about the play call is probably at the foundation of his lack of confidence, insecurity and fumbling!
                              CJ looked lopst when he too entered the game!
                              maybe hillman, who looked like he knew the plays in pre-season, can pull a moreno and go from dog house to penthouse?
                              Save Ball for the goal line where he knows the playcalls and formations.
                              Hillman still has small hands, and not the strongest arms. That's not going to change. He is good if you get him outside the edge, but runs up the middle he will still be getting stripped.
                              Obviously the backup RBs aren't getting enough reps if they don't know the plays.
                              That is a coaching failure...we are 11 games into the season. This stuff should be down pat.
                              Or maybe the RBs all take direction from PM on each play. Moreno knows what to do better, but maybe, again, that's cause he is getting nearly all the practice reps.

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