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  • Agamemnon
    replied
    Originally posted by CEH View Post
    Yep. He's not Tebow that is a fact.
    Obviously he's not Tebow. That said, he's playing a lot like him right now. Sorry, but it's just true. You can focus on a few passes a game to support your preconceived notions if you like, but the overall package is pretty ugly in terms of passing right now.

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  • CEH
    replied
    Originally posted by fontaine View Post
    Allen already has made multiple 20 yard throws up the seam splitting the coverage backer, zone DB, and safety over the top. That's three defenders in a 4x4 box that makes them look flat footed because the ball comes our like a laser.

    There only a handful of QBs that can make that kind of throw.
    He's already throwing intermediate out routes from the far hash mark that make DBs look like they're never going to jump the route.
    He's already throwing 30 yard strikes on the run rolling to his right properly without really re-setting his feet.
    He's already throwing 20 yard dig routes splitting over/under DBs and 25 yard crossers leading the WR.
    How many other QBs in the league have the mobility, arm talent that can make those kinds of throws? Jameis Winston was supposed to and he can't.

    Allen is never going to be a dink and dunk, stats machine. If he's a hard worker and stays out of trouble, this guy is going to be kicking (patriot) a$$ for the next 15 years.
    Yep. He's not Tebow that is a fact.

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  • fontaine
    replied
    Allen already has made multiple 20 yard throws up the seam splitting the coverage backer, zone DB, and safety over the top. That's three defenders in a 4x4 box that makes them look flat footed because the ball comes our like a laser.

    There only a handful of QBs that can make that kind of throw.
    He's already throwing intermediate out routes from the far hash mark that make DBs look like they're never going to jump the route.
    He's already throwing 30 yard strikes on the run rolling to his right properly without really re-setting his feet.
    He's already throwing 20 yard dig routes splitting over/under DBs and 25 yard crossers leading the WR.
    How many other QBs in the league have the mobility, arm talent that can make those kinds of throws? Jameis Winston was supposed to and he can't.

    Allen is never going to be a dink and dunk, stats machine. If he's a hard worker and stays out of trouble, this guy is going to be kicking (patriot) a$$ for the next 15 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Agamemnon
    replied
    Originally posted by CEH View Post
    Go ahead and expand on this "can't do the simple things that any QB should be able to do". Provide some specific examples not a completion % stat.
    Go watch his many failed passing plays. He misses wide open receivers on routine passes regularly. He also seriously struggles to move past his first read. At this point he prefers to run it rather than try to go through his progressions, looking much like Tebow in the process. I mean come on, his completion percentage is a couple points above 50%. His passer rating is a just a little over 60. And for those who want to talk about the players around him being the problem, I refer you to his expected completion percentage, which factors in dropped passes and receivers not getting open. At present his actual completion percentage is 8 full points below his expected completion percentage.

    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/p...2018/all#yards

    Now if you want to argue that he's just raw and needs time, that's fine. Maybe you're right. That said, I can't begin to wrap my head around how anyone thought he was a top 10 or even top 5 pick. As a purely developmental prospect, he should've gone late in the 1st or later. Personally I don't believe in developmental prospects like him before the 3rd round. Not after seeing so many developmental guys never develop.

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  • fontaine
    replied
    I wouldn't be surprised if Allen turns out to be the best of the bunch. He's never going to be a high percentage passer but then again you don't need to be if you can make incredible throws that simply can't be defended.

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  • CEH
    replied
    Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
    This right here is why I never saw him as a 1st round prospect. You don't draft a developmental QB that high who can't do the basics of the job. Yes he has some amazing throws, but he also can't do the simple things that any QB should be able to do. At this point he's basically playing like Tebow. I've seen lots of Cam Newton comparisons, but even Cam was much better as a passer as a rookie.

    Go ahead and expand on this "can't do the simple things that any QB should be able to do". Provide some specific examples not a completion % stat.

    Leave a comment:


  • Agamemnon
    replied
    Originally posted by GoneFishin' View Post
    I agree and when you actually watch the games you can see Allen is competing and making plays (some of them out of this world). He's definitely unafraid unlike say Keenum who plays timid. It's not pretty but for an unpolished passer like him these reps are critical to his development. I gotta see him by year 3 and with some actual starting caliber skill players around him. People expecting prime Steve Young in year 1 in Buffalo need to reset their expectations. This is nothing more than a developmental year for him and all the rookie QBs.
    This right here is why I never saw him as a 1st round prospect. You don't draft a developmental QB that high who can't do the basics of the job. Yes he has some amazing throws, but he also can't do the simple things that any QB should be able to do. At this point he's basically playing like Tebow. I've seen lots of Cam Newton comparisons, but even Cam was much better as a passer as a rookie.

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  • GoneFishin'
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    Josh Allen has nobody on his team. McCoy has played possum with injuries all year, there are no WRs, no TEs, and an injured and untalented OL. Allen is the team.

    This is like college all over again. You can't go by stats, they are worthless. If the WRs can't separate and drop passes non-stop when they do, that's going to make the QBs stats look poor.

    Baker has played well, but he has some talent. Hyde and now Chubb is a legit running game. He has a 1st round TE in Njoku. Landry is one of the better WRs in the league. Bitonio, Zeitler, and Tretter are as good an interior OL as you'll find in the league, which allows Baker the ability to step up in the pocket, Josh doesn't have any of that.

    On one hand, it's fair to praise Baker for looking great in comparison to the other rookie QBs, however, all the other rookie QBs have a dog**** offensive roster. They should be getting some slack.

    Once you compare the dog**** talented teams on offense, Josh Allen stands head and shoulders over the rest of the pack.
    I agree and when you actually watch the games you can see Allen is competing and making plays (some of them out of this world). He's definitely unafraid unlike say Keenum who plays timid. It's not pretty but for an unpolished passer like him these reps are critical to his development. I gotta see him by year 3 and with some actual starting caliber skill players around him. People expecting prime Steve Young in year 1 in Buffalo need to reset their expectations. This is nothing more than a developmental year for him and all the rookie QBs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Agamemnon
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan View Post
    Josh Allen has nobody on his team. McCoy has played possum with injuries all year, there are no WRs, no TEs, and an injured and untalented OL. Allen is the team.

    This is like college all over again. You can't go by stats, they are worthless. If the WRs can't separate and drop passes non-stop when they do, that's going to make the QBs stats look poor.

    Baker has played well, but he has some talent. Hyde and now Chubb is a legit running game. He has a 1st round TE in Njoku. Landry is one of the better WRs in the league. Bitonio, Zeitler, and Tretter are as good an interior OL as you'll find in the league, which allows Baker the ability to step up in the pocket, Josh doesn't have any of that.

    On one hand, it's fair to praise Baker for looking great in comparison to the other rookie QBs, however, all the other rookie QBs have a dog**** offensive roster. They should be getting some slack.

    Once you compare the dog**** talented teams on offense, Josh Allen stands head and shoulders over the rest of the pack.
    Mayfield has had to deal with one of the highest drop rates in the league MUG. It hasn't fazed him. Also, Allen still can't do the basic things a QB needs to do. Stop fixating on the arm already. Allen is not a natural passer, and the talent argument is just an excuse. People just won't stop making excuses for the guy...

    Leave a comment:


  • Agamemnon
    replied
    Originally posted by GoneFishin' View Post
    I think you're judging too early. I want to see them in year 3. But I'll just agree to disagree.
    I'm just stating a fact. Most the QB's who make it big these days play better as rookies than these guys have, minus Mayfield. The projection isn't looking good. That isn't to say that they won't improve and still possibly have long careers. It's more that they just aren't likely to become elite. Of course one or more may just flip a switch and become amazing, but that is unlikely. It's especially unlikely they all flip a switch. At most it will be one of them. The rest are probably going to be disappointments for the teams who drafted them. I think Rosen is the one most likely to be an outright bust at this point though. He was supposed to be the most pro-ready of the bunch, and he's just lost out there. He's not like Allen, with all this hidden potential. He's much closer to his final form.

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  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Josh Allen has nobody on his team. McCoy has played possum with injuries all year, there are no WRs, no TEs, and an injured and untalented OL. Allen is the team.

    This is like college all over again. You can't go by stats, they are worthless. If the WRs can't separate and drop passes non-stop when they do, that's going to make the QBs stats look poor.

    Baker has played well, but he has some talent. Hyde and now Chubb is a legit running game. He has a 1st round TE in Njoku. Landry is one of the better WRs in the league. Bitonio, Zeitler, and Tretter are as good an interior OL as you'll find in the league, which allows Baker the ability to step up in the pocket, Josh doesn't have any of that.

    On one hand, it's fair to praise Baker for looking great in comparison to the other rookie QBs, however, all the other rookie QBs have a dog**** offensive roster. They should be getting some slack.

    Once you compare the dog**** talented teams on offense, Josh Allen stands head and shoulders over the rest of the pack.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoneFishin'
    replied
    Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Based on the recent history of rookie QB’s, only Mayfield looks like he’s going to be a franchise QB. Maybe one of the rest pulls a Goff, but rookie QB’s with numbers like that rarely become special these days.
    I think you're judging too early. I want to see them in year 3. But I'll just agree to disagree.

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  • Agamemnon
    replied
    Originally posted by DENVERDUI55 View Post
    He has been lately.
    No, he hasn’t.

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  • orange crusher
    replied
    Originally posted by Pony Boy View Post
    Former Browns quarterback turned analyst would take Buffalo’s Josh Allen over Baker Mayfield if he were starting a team.

    In an appearance this week on a CBS Sports podcast, Quinn said that while Mayfield is good, Buffalo Bills rookie quarterback Josh Allen would be Quinn’s man if he were running an NFL franchise:


    Mayfield is completing 64.4 percent of his passes on 376 attempts, with 19 touchdowns, 13 combined turnovers (10 interceptions and three fumbles) and has a quarterback rating of 93.4.

    Darnold is completing 55.9 percent of his passes on 313 attempts, with 12 touchdowns, 15 combined turnovers (all interceptions) and has a quarterback rating of 69.5.

    Rosen is completing 55.4 percent of his passes on 314 attempts, with 10 touchdowns, 16 combined turnovers (12 interceptions and four fumbles) and has a quarterback rating of 68.3.

    Jackson is completing 58.4 percent of his passes on 101 attempts, with four touchdowns, five combined turnovers (three interceptions and two fumbles) and has a quarterback rating of 79.9.

    Allen is completing 52.4 percent of his passes on 227 attempts, with five touchdowns, 12 combined turnovers (nine interceptions and three fumbles) and has a quarterback rating of 62.8.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.daw...ential-results
    He must be hoping all of the Browns QBs will suck as bad as he did.

    Leave a comment:


  • Agamemnon
    replied
    Originally posted by GoneFishin' View Post
    I'd take any of these guys over Keenum.

    Based on the recent history of rookie QB’s, only Mayfield looks like he’s going to be a franchise QB. Maybe one of the rest pulls a Goff, but rookie QB’s with numbers like that rarely become special these days.

    Leave a comment:

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