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WTF going on at the Broncos? Booker over Freeman(and he’s going to play on Thursday?)?

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  • Originally posted by Jason in LA View Post
    I 100% disagree with you on this topic.

    As for Lynch, it didn't take preseason games for Kelly to surpass him. I'd say that the coaches knew all along just from training camp, where he was not decent, and the plan was to give Kelly the No. 2 spot. Kelly was out performing Lynch all training camp. I'd say that they were hoping that Lynch would show something so that they could trade him, so they kept him in that spot longer than they wanted. They didn't want to kill what ever trade value that they were hoping that he would have by demoting him. Once it was obvious that he would not have any trade value, they made the switch to Kelly.



    You’re completely wrong.


    Terrell Davis is the pure example that preseason is needed. Without it it’s just practice and buried behind 5 RBs, barely no meaningful practice reps.

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    • Originally posted by Jason in LA View Post
      I 100% disagree with you on this topic.

      As for Lynch, it didn't take preseason games for Kelly to surpass him. I'd say that the coaches knew all along just from training camp, where he was not decent, and the plan was to give Kelly the No. 2 spot. Kelly was out performing Lynch all training camp. I'd say that they were hoping that Lynch would show something so that they could trade him, so they kept him in that spot longer than they wanted. They didn't want to kill what ever trade value that they were hoping that he would have by demoting him. Once it was obvious that he would not have any trade value, they made the switch to Kelly.
      How could you even remotely think this when Chad wasn’t even given reps with the 2’s until after that first week? The plan most certainly was not to have your 7th round pick ahead of your 1st. Kelly just forced their hand because Lynch is such a trainwreck

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      • Originally posted by lolcopter View Post
        How could you even remotely think this when Chad wasn’t even given reps with the 2’s until after that first week? The plan most certainly was not to have your 7th round pick ahead of your 1st. Kelly just forced their hand because Lynch is such a trainwreck


        Exactly. Kelly doesn’t even get the reps if there’s no preseason.

        TC was basically over before he even went with 2s in practice.

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        • Originally posted by chrisp View Post
          Although I kind of understand the logic behind it, it still amazes me how little modern coaching staffs and FOs seem to value pure running ability at the running back position.

          On the one hand, this is a passing league, teams averaged a shade under 110 yards/game rushing last year and approx 225 yards/game passing. Only three teams got more than 40% of their yards on the ground and they all had running quarterbacks (Buffalo, Carolina, Dallas). So in many ways the run game is seen as a counterweight to the pass to keep the defense honest rather than an engine of offensive production. Having a dangerous or explosive running back is seen as merely a nice-to-have rather than a need-to-have.

          This means that in the eyes of most coaches it is vital that runningbacks must pass block and receive at least as well as they run, as if the other team knows that a runningback can't do these things they know the team is likely to run if he's in there.

          This isn't just a Broncos thing, its league-wide: why were Miami happy to let Jay Ajayi walk? 20-30 years ago he's probably seen as a franchise player. Why didn't Seattle view Marshawn Lynch in a similar manner? It seems that most coaches would rather have a player who is an average runner and an average receiver than a great runner and below average receiver - they value the utility guy more than the specialist.

          To be fair, VJ has repeatedly stated words to the effect that there isn't really going to be a #1 running back, just different guys with differing attributes that are all used. Very few teams now feature a true #1 back in the way teams used to anyway. However I think they can all see that Freeman runs better and that will be used, I just don't think he'll sit on top of the depth chart untill later in the season when he's proved his blocking and receiving skills are up to snuff.

          Nothing too unusual - promising rookies don't often unseat established vets in preseason - they have to do it in real games before they get the starter crown....
          CJ was an elite runner, elite pass-catcher, and never fumbled. Gonna miss that guy.

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          • Originally posted by itswutz4dinna View Post
            CJ was an elite runner, elite pass-catcher, and never fumbled. Gonna miss that guy.
            Wouldn't say he was an elite pass-catcher, even for a RB - 859 yards in 4 years with an 8.3 yd average - but I agree with everything else you said there.

            Also last season was his most impressive stats-wise but curiously underwhelming somehow. I suppose if you look at it on a per-game basis he'd been more impressive in previous years, so I expected more from his first full season starting 16 games. I think his early years of only having 6 or 7 starts in a season but still getting 7-800 yards raised my expectations a little too high.....

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            • Originally posted by chrisp View Post
              Wouldn't say he was an elite pass-catcher, even for a RB - 859 yards in 4 years with an 8.3 yd average - but I agree with everything else you said there.

              Also last season was his most impressive stats-wise but curiously underwhelming somehow. I suppose if you look at it on a per-game basis he'd been more impressive in previous years, so I expected more from his first full season starting 16 games. I think his early years of only having 6 or 7 starts in a season but still getting 7-800 yards raised my expectations a little too high.....
              I think he was elite at pass-catching, but the coaches never noticed or took advantage of it. They seemed to think Booker was better, which he clearly wasn't. And overall this team has under-utilized RBs in the passing game since Manning.

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              • Originally posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
                You’re completely wrong.


                Terrell Davis is the pure example that preseason is needed. Without it it’s just practice and buried behind 5 RBs, barely no meaningful practice reps.
                First, I'm not wrong. We just have different opinions. Notice that I didn't tell you that you were wrong on this topic, I simply said that I 100% disagree with you.

                This came up in another thread about a week ago and I brought up the Terrell Davis point. The point I made was that his case was a very unique story. How many other Hall of Fame careers, or just good careers, were sparked by a random play in a preseason game?

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                • Originally posted by lolcopter View Post
                  How could you even remotely think this when Chad wasn’t even given reps with the 2’s until after that first week? The plan most certainly was not to have your 7th round pick ahead of your 1st. Kelly just forced their hand because Lynch is such a trainwreck
                  They knew. Hell, we all knew. The media knew. We discussed it here at the OM. This was before the preseason games. There were a number of gripes before the preseason games that Lynch and Kelly weren't splitting 2nd team reps, and reports said that Kelly was having a better camp, even though he was relegated to playing with players who probably weren't going to stick around. When Kelly was dealing with a center who couldn't even snap him the ball consistently, many people were asking why he wasn't getting 2nd team reps so that he can showcase himself.

                  The coaches knew. My opinion is that Lynch stayed ahead of Kelly just for trade purposes. When it was clear that Lynch had no trade value, Kelly was given the spot.

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                  • Originally posted by Jason in LA View Post
                    First, I'm not wrong. We just have different opinions. Notice that I didn't tell you that you were wrong on this topic, I simply said that I 100% disagree with you.

                    This came up in another thread about a week ago and I brought up the Terrell Davis point. The point I made was that his case was a very unique story. How many other Hall of Fame careers, or just good careers, were sparked by a random play in a preseason game?


                    Chris Harris Jr never gets the reps in preason he doesn’t play. There’s a TON of examples across the league where players made names for themselves in preseason games, not practice.

                    I’ve talked about this before with 2 coaches(one former one current) whom I’ve known for years. Both have said the same thing I am saying. Which is why I feel so strongly about what it means for the bottom half of depth chart players.

                    If the NFLPA thought it was a waste of time, it would’ve been eliminated years ago. There’s always going to be deeply talented players who don’t need it. Like Gurleys point of view. But it’s important for no name players to make names for themselves. They get pushed up depth charts because of real game reps, no unpadded light practices and 7 on 7s
                    Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic2; 08-29-2018, 10:30 AM.

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                    • Originally posted by Jason in LA View Post
                      They knew. Hell, we all knew. The media knew. We discussed it here at the OM. This was before the preseason games. There were a number of gripes before the preseason games that Lynch and Kelly weren't splitting 2nd team reps, and reports said that Kelly was having a better camp, even though he was relegated to playing with players who probably weren't going to stick around. When Kelly was dealing with a center who couldn't even snap him the ball consistently, many people were asking why he wasn't getting 2nd team reps so that he can showcase himself.

                      The coaches knew. My opinion is that Lynch stayed ahead of Kelly just for trade purposes. When it was clear that Lynch had no trade value, Kelly was given the spot.
                      Nobody knew anything until Kelly finally saw some live action and to say otherwise is just revisionist history. Elway has done, and continues to do, everything in his power to salvage Lynch’s career. There is a very real shot that turd stays on the final roster, but it won’t be because “well they knew Kelly was better all along”

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                      • Another point about how meaningless preseason games are, it won't be long before Booker isn't even a contributor on this team (even if he makes the cut). But we're sitting here arguing over preseason carries. lol Preseason narrative typically do not roll over into the regular season, and preseason games typically aren't an indication of how a team will do in the regular season. People waste time analyzing these games.

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                        • Originally posted by lolcopter View Post
                          Nobody knew anything until Kelly finally saw some live action and to say otherwise is just revisionist history. Elway has done, and continues to do, everything in his power to salvage Lynch’s career. There is a very real shot that turd stays on the final roster, but it won’t be because “well they knew Kelly was better all along”
                          Maybe you didn't know. But a lot of people knew.

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                          • Originally posted by Jason in LA View Post
                            Maybe you didn't know. But a lot of people knew.
                            only because everyone with two eyes can see that Lynch has been total garbage his entire career so the bar is set pretty low. People were optimistic on Kelly, but there was no body of work to actually judge him on. That’s what preseason is for, and that is the value that is derived from its existence. You take away preseason and Lynch is still the backup

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                            • Orton was a practice HOFer.


                              Your formula would’ve have him starting.


                              Your formula also has coaching staffs wasting reps(lynch with 2s when they knew Kelly was their guy). Which they don’t do on purpose.
                              Last edited by Drunken.Broncoholic2; 08-29-2018, 10:43 AM.

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                              • There are plenty of guys who flash in camp/practice but struggle in games and guys who do the vice versa. You honestly don't know what you have until real bullets fly.

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