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  • Originally posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
    Jamarcus Russel and Ryan Leaf failed not because they didn't' have the talent, but because they were lazy, had no character and were arrogant idiots who thought they didn't have to work.

    I'm not sure if the list goes on and on, but if it does, I"d like to see it.

    To hear some people tell it in here, they'd rather have a guy who doesn't have a strong arm even though there are many types of quarterback traits that fail to transfer to the NFL. Among all QB;s drafted in the 1st round since 1990, about 50% have either been outright busts or they've significantly disappointed relative to their draft position. I have no doubt we remember the big arm guys the most, but does that mean they are more likely to bust? I doubt it. I'm thinking that the bust potential has more to do with other things, like work ethic, inability to process information quickly, inexperience in pro-style offenses, lack of enough college starting experience, injuries, bad fits for particular offenses, and yes...lack of an NFL throwing arm.

    I keep waiting for someone...anyone...to come forth and tell Allen's story, because it's one you rarely hear. This guy's a very late bloomer, an extremely hard worker, and he played in a bad situation with minimal talent around him. I realize accuracy is important, but the arbitrary cutoff at 60% for a college passer doesn't necessarily tell you much about any one particular guy, and this might be one that it doesn't tell the whole story on.

    All 4 of the top guys are risky, every one...so I'm not sure it's any more risky to gamble on a guy who is really just beginning to tap his potential vs one that may have already tapped out, especially when he does have that kind of arm.

    Go look up his highlights. There's a pass in there that he throws while on the run to his right, throwing as he's off balance and heading out of bounds. It's a TD...and I've seen only one other arm in the NFL that I think could make that throw.

    That guy is watching this guy...so it would not surprise me if he drafts him.
    You’re correct, but even more bedeviling are the guys who seemingly check off every box—the eye test, intelligence, skilled on the white board, work ethic—and fail nonetheless. I’m thinking of guys like David Carr and Joey Harrington. For some reason, all the requisite ingredients don’t always add up to success. That’s why I’m fascinated to see how the analytics approach proves itself accuracy wise. It seems much more precise, but who knows if it’ll work out. I’m compelled by how well Mayfield performs based on the advanced metrics approach—and the clear separation he creates between himself and the rest of his class—and will be very interested to see if it proves a more accurate approach. Frankly, I feel better about him based on the analytics than any of the other QBs in this class.

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    • Originally posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
      They are talking about trading up, but not for Allen.

      http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2..._for_saqu.html
      If you trade with us, we'll wake Barkley and not a QB and you can totally get your pick of QB at 5. Trust us.


      Broncos select.... Josh Rosen, UCLA

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      • The thing that scares me about Allen, even more than his completion %, is his lack of production. And how particularly poor his production was this past year. Because I think the way you played in games is far more important than how you look on your pro day. But, that said, Wentz (who is sometimes compared to Allen) had pretty mediocre college production as well. And he looks great in the NFL so far. So who the hell knows.

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        • Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
          In this draft?

          I like Mayfield's intangibles and attitude. He is the type of guy you root for. That does not mean I think he is the most talented QB (he isnt) or even most talented player in this draft (definitely is not) but I think he has a good shot to become a franchise QB.

          Of course he is not 6'5+ and cant throw through a concrete wall. Its just a gut feeling I have, but I have definitely been wrong about players before.


          He's like a less talented Drew Brees, with Tebow's intangibles (just douchey instead of religious), and the attitude of Manziel (perhaps without the alcoholism).

          If you take that guy top 5, you're desperate.

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          • Originally posted by TonyR View Post
            The thing that scares me about Allen, even more than his completion %, is his lack of production. And how particularly poor his production was this past year. Because I think the way you played in games is far more important than how you look on your pro day. But, that said, Wentz (who is sometimes compared to Allen) had pretty mediocre college production as well. And he looks great in the NFL so far. So who the hell knows.
            I agree, but here's my thing. There are numerous players who are far better than almost all of the QBs.

            The QB at 5 proponents say that you "have to keep swinging until you hit one out", which I get. However, if that's your mentality, Allen is the guy you have to take because he has by far the most talent.

            I can somewhat understand passing on guys like Nelson, Chubb, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, etc if there is a guy who's potential is off the charts at QB, which Allen's is, but taking a QB like Mayfield or Darnold over those better players just makes no sense.

            If you're going to shoot for the moon, shoot for the mothereffing moon. Don't take a little spoiled douche who shows fire because he has a Napoleon complex and can't control his temper.

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            • Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
              He missed on 4 or 5 out of 60, and on deep throws. Three of them were to the same guy, and one of those overthrows hit that WR in the hands and he dropped it. Allen had a good proday. You can see the arm talent and why scouts and some teams would be super interested.


              I'm just pointing out its not a good look when you're over throwing these dudes. yeah, I know, he's got a strong arm. Some jackass who probably was on the fence about him will fall in love with him because of this.

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              • Originally posted by Dedhed View Post
                I agree, but here's my thing. There are numerous players who are far better than almost all of the QBs.

                The QB at 5 proponents say that you "have to keep swinging until you hit one out", which I get. However, if that's your mentality, Allen is the guy you have to take because he has by far the most talent.

                I can somewhat understand passing on guys like Nelson, Chubb, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, etc if there is a guy who's potential is off the charts at QB, which Allen's is, but taking a QB like Mayfield or Darnold over those better players just makes no sense.

                If you're going to shoot for the moon, shoot for the mothereffing moon. Don't take a little spoiled douche who shows fire because he has a Napoleon complex and can't control his temper.
                he has the strongest arm. I don't know that he has the most talent. 85 percent of pro quarterbacking is between the ears.

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                • Originally posted by broncosteven View Post
                  I am tired of people falling in love with big armed QB's. I think Fundamentals trump everything. If a guy has great mechanics, is smart, and has some size, between 6'3 and 6'5 he can be a great QB. Some of these strong armed guys rely too much on their arms, just look a Cutler, great arm talent but threw off his back foot and was stupid situationally.

                  The garbage bins of the NFL is littered with strong armed QB's.

                  Lynch
                  Jarmacus Russell
                  The dude from SD who was a total dick, got cut then got addicted to Vicodins.
                  The list goes on and on.
                  Not me.

                  I like big arms and I cannot lie!!!

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                  • Originally posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
                    I'm just pointing out its not a good look when you're over throwing these dudes. yeah, I know, he's got a strong arm. Some jackass who probably was on the fence about him will fall in love with him because of this.

                    Its not like he overthrew them by a mile, and additionally it was to demonstrate that he could launch a frigging football 80 yards in the air from one 10 yard line to the other without a great deal of effort.


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                    • Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
                      Its not like he overthrew them by a mile, and additionally it was to demonstrate that he could launch a frigging football 80 yards in the air from one 10 yard line to the other without a great deal of effort.


                      The wideouts he was throwing to were probably in high school last year. I wouldn’t read too much into it. 80 yard passes with ease. Not too many humans can do that.

                      Haters are gonna hate. Of how salty the tears are going to be in April.

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                      • <blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;This is the only thing I ever wanted to do in my entire life.&quot;<a href="https://twitter.com/JoshAllenQB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JoshAllenQB</a> caught up with <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeMayock?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MikeMayock</a> after throwing at <a href="https://twitter.com/wyo_football?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@wyo_football</a>&#39;s Pro Day. (via <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@nflnetwork</a>) <a href="https://t.co/Zxq2IycCIM">pic.twitter.com/Zxq2IycCIM</a></p>&mdash; NFL (@NFL) <a href="https://twitter.com/NFL/status/977268692852490240?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Allen just said if it was snowing they WOULD’ve gone outside! Says they would’ve done about 20 throws. Disappointed it wasn’t. So the weather was too nice. 38 and drippy.</p>&mdash; Darren McKee (@dmac1043) <a href="https://twitter.com/dmac1043/status/977259423679725568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Allen says he would be ok to sit and learn if he was with the broncos. He would be fine with it</p>&mdash; Darren McKee (@dmac1043) <a href="https://twitter.com/dmac1043/status/977259861875412992?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The greatest way to describe Josh Allen’s throws today is that you FEEL them being caught.</p>&mdash; Nick Kosmider (@NickKosmider) <a href="https://twitter.com/NickKosmider/status/977248657157345280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Josh Allen just wrapped up 60 impressive throws. Only about three that were off target. Jordan Palmer, his QB coach, put him through the ringer, too. Throws on the run, reacting to broken plays, tough throws on the sideline, etc.</p>&mdash; Nick Kosmider (@NickKosmider) <a href="https://twitter.com/NickKosmider/status/977253010010144768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">“When you see him live, it is scouting narcotics.”<br><br>�� <a href="https://twitter.com/MoveTheSticks?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MoveTheSticks</a> breaks down <a href="https://twitter.com/JoshAllenQB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@JoshAllenQB</a>’s impressive Pro Day.<br><br>��: LIVE on NFL Network! <a href="https://t.co/U2fgaloygB">pic.twitter.com/U2fgaloygB</a></p>&mdash; NFL Network (@nflnetwork) <a href="https://twitter.com/nflnetwork/status/977255891069157376?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script><blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&quot;If that football was a harpoon, that kid would be dead right now.” — <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeMayock?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@MikeMayock</a> at Josh Allen’s pro day.</p>&mdash; Kevin Patra (@kpatra) <a href="https://twitter.com/kpatra/status/977251204769177603?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 23, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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                        • All I want for Christmas is 2013 Peyton.

                          That failing I just want some offensive hope.

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                          • Originally posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
                            he has the strongest arm. I don't know that he has the most talent. 85 percent of pro quarterbacking is between the ears.
                            Cliches don’t convince me. People say that golf is 90% mental, and those same. Idiots like to say that Tiger Woods dominated with his mental game, and its complete horse crap.

                            Tiger was dominant because he had athletic talent that the PGA tour had never seen and it gave him a mental edge right out of the gate.

                            Elway and Favre are mental midgets compared to Peyton. You need a combination of both, and it’s a 50/50 thing.

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                            • If we trade up for Barkley it me and we are rolling with Keenum for now and later.
                              Which, given Barkley is a beast I can live with.

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