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  • Originally posted by BroncoInferno View Post
    Most elite QBs are well-established by 30. Who are those guys now?
    Wentz probably (let's see what he does this year before we crown him), Luck (unless that shoulder ends his career), Wilson (although he doesn't fit the mold of most elite QB's, and he'll be 30 in less than a year). Nobody else really qualifies unless I'm overlooking somebody.

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    • Originally posted by TonyR View Post
      Wentz probably (let's see what he does this year before we crown him), Luck (unless that shoulder ends his career), Wilson (although he doesn't fit the mold of most elite QB's, and he'll be 30 in less than a year). Nobody else really qualifies unless I'm overlooking somebody.
      Aaron Rodgers,Tom Brady,Peyton Manning,Ben Rِthlisberger Russell Wilson,Troy Aikman all elite before 30. This notion that you have to be 30 before being elite is BS.

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      • Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post
        Elite? Russell Wilson. Andrew Luck. Potential? Derek Carr, Deshaun Watson, Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Jimmy Garropolo, Marcus Mariota, Cam Newton and Jameis Winston.
        Few of those guys are elite. Wilson? Okay, though he isn’t producing much without a D and running game. Luck, agree, though he may be done. Wentz’s backup won the title, so I’m skeptical. Goff? No chance. McVay used smoke and mirrors with him. He’s closer to the Fisher player. Garropollo? Maybe. Too small a sample size. Mariota? No chance. Just had his worst season by any measure (even worse than his rookie year) in year three. Newton and Winston elite? .

        Mahomes and Trubisky looked pretty good in their limited time last season as well.
        Trubisky looks like a probable bust to me. Mahomes we will see.

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        • Originally posted by TonyR View Post
          Wentz probably (let's see what he does this year before we crown him), Luck (unless that shoulder ends his career), Wilson (although he doesn't fit the mold of most elite QB's, and he'll be 30 in less than a year). Nobody else really qualifies unless I'm overlooking somebody.
          Wentz may be on that path, but it’s one season that he played that way and it’s suspicious to me that his backup won the title (system product?). And Luck may be physically done (we will see). Some would say Wilson, and while he’s very good, let’s see how he does without a D or running game (results not good thus far). And that’s the best of the under-30.
          Last edited by BroncoInferno; 03-21-2018, 08:28 PM.

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          • Originally posted by BroncoInferno View Post
            Few of those guys are elite. Wilson? Okay, though he isn’t producing much without a D and running game. Luck, agree, though he may be done. Wentz’s backup won the title, so I’m skeptical. Goff? No chance. McVay used smoke and mirrors with him. He’s closer to the Fisher player. Garropollo? Maybe. Too small a sample size. Mariota? No chance. Just had his worst season by any measure (even worse than his rookie year) in year three. Newton and Winston elite? .



            Trubisky looks like a probable bust to me. Mahomes we will see.
            Ok, I don't really give a **** about Trubisky, I was just trying to be nice since I tore him down all last season and was incredulous to teams ranking him over Watson.

            Wilson's OL is awful. One of the worst in the NFL and he still produces and has the Seahawks in range of the playoffs.

            Foles is a former pro bowl QB and the Eagles coaching staff was familiar with his work. Wentz is borderline elite, stop it.

            Goff wasn't smoke and mirrors, I was highly skeptical of him when he went #1 and even halfway through this season.
            McVay molded his system to enhance what Goff does best.

            Mariota will finally be put in an offense that caters to his strengths, he is going to be a very top notch QB this year. His issue will be health.

            Newton is a damn good QB and if he can finally get some weapons around him at WR will show out again, even better than his MVP season.

            Winston has traits, not sure he'll get there but he has them. Not sure his work ethic is good enough though.

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            • Originally posted by BroncoInferno View Post
              peacepipe is the same guy who thought Osweiler was good and a mistake to let leave. Other people: who are the clear under-30 elites? Luck if he’s not washed? Wilson but can’t make the playoffs without a D or running game? Maybe Wentz if you’re not concerned that his backup won the title? Watson after four games?
              The eagles can’t be too concerned considering the backup will remain a backup.

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              • Originally posted by peacepipe View Post
                The eagles can’t be too concerned considering the backup will remain a backup.
                And yet the backup won the title. Which isn’t to suggest Foles is better, but merely to show that they won the title without the better guy.

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                • Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post
                  Ok, I don't really give a **** about Trubisky, I was just trying to be nice since I tore him down all last season and was incredulous to teams ranking him over Watson.

                  Wilson's OL is awful. One of the worst in the NFL and he still produces and has the Seahawks in range of the playoffs.

                  Foles is a former pro bowl QB and the Eagles coaching staff was familiar with his work. Wentz is borderline elite, stop it.

                  Goff wasn't smoke and mirrors, I was highly skeptical of him when he went #1 and even halfway through this season.
                  McVay molded his system to enhance what Goff does best.

                  Mariota will finally be put in an offense that caters to his strengths, he is going to be a very top notch QB this year. His issue will be health.

                  Newton is a damn good QB and if he can finally get some weapons around him at WR will show out again, even better than his MVP season.

                  Winston has traits, not sure he'll get there but he has them. Not sure his work ethic is good enough though.
                  And yet none of those guys are elite, at least not on the over-30, out-going level (Brady, Brees, Rothlisberger, Rodgers). (oh, and Goff absolutely was some and mirrors...no chance he is better than average going forward).

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                  • Originally posted by BroncoInferno View Post
                    And yet none of those guys are elite, at least not on the over-30, out-going level (Brady, Brees, Rothlisberger, Rodgers). (oh, and Goff absolutely was some and mirrors...no chance he is better than average going forward).
                    Again, the game has moved toward a steeper learning curve due to the slow adjustment of the NFL to the college game and the offenses they play in them.

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                    • Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post
                      Again, the game has moved toward a steeper learning curve due to the slow adjustment of the NFL to the college game and the offenses they play in them.
                      And I agree with that, which is why I say the league is moving away from the must have elite QB model to win a title. Keenum is right in line with the kind of QB you need in today’s model. For instance, I’d take him over Goff or Winston any day of the week.

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                      • Originally posted by BroncoInferno View Post
                        And I agree with that, which is why I say the league is moving away from the must have elite QB model to win a title. Keenum is right in line with the kind of QB you need in today’s model. For instance, I’d take him over Goff or Winston any day of the week.
                        It's not moving away from elite QB's, it's finding a different wave of them.

                        The game is undergoing another revolution, you've seen pocket sloth QB's almost fully disappear, now you are seeing more RPO, spread concept, force the defense to react offensive schemes.

                        It takes time for the league to find the right balance and the QB play to consistently catch up.

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                        • Originally posted by IndelibleScribe View Post
                          It's not moving away from elite QB's, it's finding a different wave of them.

                          The game is undergoing another revolution, you've seen pocket sloth QB's almost fully disappear, now you are seeing more RPO, spread concept, force the defense to react offensive schemes.

                          It takes time for the league to find the right balance and the QB play to consistently catch up.
                          Maybe. While the league is catching up, we have a QB who fits the current climate extremely well.

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                          • Watson, Wentz, JimmyG, Mahomes, Cam, Luck, Goff are possible under 30-elites.

                            If the argument is you can win without an elite one, thats true if the team is built right.

                            Still not sure i'd pass on a QB just because we have Keenum.

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                            • Originally posted by LikeABoss5820 View Post
                              Watson, Wentz, JimmyG, Mahomes, Cam, Luck, Goff are possible under 30-elites.

                              If the argument is you can win without an elite one, thats true if the team is built right.

                              Still not sure i'd pass on a QB just because we have Keenum.
                              Mahomes? He’s played a game. That’s like saying Lynch is possibly elite

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                              • Originally posted by LikeABoss5820 View Post
                                Watson, Wentz, JimmyG, Mahomes, Cam, Luck, Goff are possible under 30-elites.

                                If the argument is you can win without an elite one, thats true if the team is built right.

                                Still not sure i'd pass on a QB just because we have Keenum.
                                The only potential elites I see there are Garropollo and Wentz, maybe Watson. Luck for sure but only if healthy. The others are huge question marks. Really, my point isn’t that there will never be other be other elite QBs, but the number under 30 who are for sure is negligible. Brady, Brees , Rothlisberger, etc were all clear elites well before 30. Where are the for-sure sub-30 QBs now? Most of the guys you mentioned will likely wash out at okay-to-above-average (I’m nearly certain on Goff will be ho-hum).
                                Last edited by BroncoInferno; 03-21-2018, 09:25 PM.

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