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  • GoneFishin'
    replied
    Originally posted by broncosteven View Post
    I am tired of people falling in love with big armed QB's. I think Fundamentals trump everything. If a guy has great mechanics, is smart, and has some size, between 6'3 and 6'5 he can be a great QB. Some of these strong armed guys rely too much on their arms, just look a Cutler, great arm talent but threw off his back foot and was stupid situationally.

    The garbage bins of the NFL is littered with strong armed QB's.

    Lynch
    Jarmacus Russell
    The dude from SD who was a total dick, got cut then got addicted to Vicodins.
    The list goes on and on.
    Not me.

    I like big arms and I cannot lie!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • SonOfLe-loLang
    replied
    Originally posted by Dedhed View Post
    I agree, but here's my thing. There are numerous players who are far better than almost all of the QBs.

    The QB at 5 proponents say that you "have to keep swinging until you hit one out", which I get. However, if that's your mentality, Allen is the guy you have to take because he has by far the most talent.

    I can somewhat understand passing on guys like Nelson, Chubb, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, etc if there is a guy who's potential is off the charts at QB, which Allen's is, but taking a QB like Mayfield or Darnold over those better players just makes no sense.

    If you're going to shoot for the moon, shoot for the mothereffing moon. Don't take a little spoiled douche who shows fire because he has a Napoleon complex and can't control his temper.
    he has the strongest arm. I don't know that he has the most talent. 85 percent of pro quarterbacking is between the ears.

    Leave a comment:


  • SonOfLe-loLang
    replied
    Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
    He missed on 4 or 5 out of 60, and on deep throws. Three of them were to the same guy, and one of those overthrows hit that WR in the hands and he dropped it. Allen had a good proday. You can see the arm talent and why scouts and some teams would be super interested.


    I'm just pointing out its not a good look when you're over throwing these dudes. yeah, I know, he's got a strong arm. Some jackass who probably was on the fence about him will fall in love with him because of this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dedhed
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyR View Post
    The thing that scares me about Allen, even more than his completion %, is his lack of production. And how particularly poor his production was this past year. Because I think the way you played in games is far more important than how you look on your pro day. But, that said, Wentz (who is sometimes compared to Allen) had pretty mediocre college production as well. And he looks great in the NFL so far. So who the hell knows.
    I agree, but here's my thing. There are numerous players who are far better than almost all of the QBs.

    The QB at 5 proponents say that you "have to keep swinging until you hit one out", which I get. However, if that's your mentality, Allen is the guy you have to take because he has by far the most talent.

    I can somewhat understand passing on guys like Nelson, Chubb, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, etc if there is a guy who's potential is off the charts at QB, which Allen's is, but taking a QB like Mayfield or Darnold over those better players just makes no sense.

    If you're going to shoot for the moon, shoot for the mothereffing moon. Don't take a little spoiled douche who shows fire because he has a Napoleon complex and can't control his temper.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dedhed
    replied
    Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
    In this draft?

    I like Mayfield's intangibles and attitude. He is the type of guy you root for. That does not mean I think he is the most talented QB (he isnt) or even most talented player in this draft (definitely is not) but I think he has a good shot to become a franchise QB.

    Of course he is not 6'5+ and cant throw through a concrete wall. Its just a gut feeling I have, but I have definitely been wrong about players before.


    He's like a less talented Drew Brees, with Tebow's intangibles (just douchey instead of religious), and the attitude of Manziel (perhaps without the alcoholism).

    If you take that guy top 5, you're desperate.

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyR
    replied
    The thing that scares me about Allen, even more than his completion %, is his lack of production. And how particularly poor his production was this past year. Because I think the way you played in games is far more important than how you look on your pro day. But, that said, Wentz (who is sometimes compared to Allen) had pretty mediocre college production as well. And he looks great in the NFL so far. So who the hell knows.

    Leave a comment:


  • ColoradoDarin
    replied
    Originally posted by Drunken.Broncoholic2 View Post
    They are talking about trading up, but not for Allen.

    http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2..._for_saqu.html
    If you trade with us, we'll wake Barkley and not a QB and you can totally get your pick of QB at 5. Trust us.


    Broncos select.... Josh Rosen, UCLA

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoInferno
    replied
    Originally posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
    Jamarcus Russel and Ryan Leaf failed not because they didn't' have the talent, but because they were lazy, had no character and were arrogant idiots who thought they didn't have to work.

    I'm not sure if the list goes on and on, but if it does, I"d like to see it.

    To hear some people tell it in here, they'd rather have a guy who doesn't have a strong arm even though there are many types of quarterback traits that fail to transfer to the NFL. Among all QB;s drafted in the 1st round since 1990, about 50% have either been outright busts or they've significantly disappointed relative to their draft position. I have no doubt we remember the big arm guys the most, but does that mean they are more likely to bust? I doubt it. I'm thinking that the bust potential has more to do with other things, like work ethic, inability to process information quickly, inexperience in pro-style offenses, lack of enough college starting experience, injuries, bad fits for particular offenses, and yes...lack of an NFL throwing arm.

    I keep waiting for someone...anyone...to come forth and tell Allen's story, because it's one you rarely hear. This guy's a very late bloomer, an extremely hard worker, and he played in a bad situation with minimal talent around him. I realize accuracy is important, but the arbitrary cutoff at 60% for a college passer doesn't necessarily tell you much about any one particular guy, and this might be one that it doesn't tell the whole story on.

    All 4 of the top guys are risky, every one...so I'm not sure it's any more risky to gamble on a guy who is really just beginning to tap his potential vs one that may have already tapped out, especially when he does have that kind of arm.

    Go look up his highlights. There's a pass in there that he throws while on the run to his right, throwing as he's off balance and heading out of bounds. It's a TD...and I've seen only one other arm in the NFL that I think could make that throw.

    That guy is watching this guy...so it would not surprise me if he drafts him.
    You’re correct, but even more bedeviling are the guys who seemingly check off every box—the eye test, intelligence, skilled on the white board, work ethic—and fail nonetheless. I’m thinking of guys like David Carr and Joey Harrington. For some reason, all the requisite ingredients don’t always add up to success. That’s why I’m fascinated to see how the analytics approach proves itself accuracy wise. It seems much more precise, but who knows if it’ll work out. I’m compelled by how well Mayfield performs based on the advanced metrics approach—and the clear separation he creates between himself and the rest of his class—and will be very interested to see if it proves a more accurate approach. Frankly, I feel better about him based on the analytics than any of the other QBs in this class.

    Leave a comment:


  • cutthemdown
    replied
    Originally posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton View Post
    I mean, they are, and I don't think it's completely irrelevant. I just think you have to look at the whole package, especially when it comes to quarterback play.

    But all the QBs have their own warts, and they're all quantifiable with like ONE statistical category.

    With Mayfield, it's size. With Rosen, it's injuries. With Darnold, it's fumbles. With Allen, it's accuracy. Now, depending on the situation each one of these guys go to, those issues could rear their ugly heads in a big, big way, or they could not.

    There were a few people here telling me I was nuts for saying I'd trade Denver's entire draft (somewhat of an exaggeration, but not that much) to the Browns to get Wentz, because "he didn't play anybody." But when you can play, you can play. He had the size, and arm strength, and attitude that made me really like him.

    I like Allen in the same way. Not saying he's Wentz, but... we just don't know. And if we have the chance to draft him and he turns out to be magnificent after sitting a couple years, we won't be thrilled.
    WOW so you are saying the might be good, or they might not be. You are saying their red flags might be a big deal, or they might not be. You are ****ing genius. Quit your day job as a gay porn fluffer and go be a scout.

    Leave a comment:


  • CEH
    replied
    Originally posted by footstepsfrom#27 View Post
    Jamarcus Russel and Ryan Leaf failed not because they didn't' have the talent, but because they were lazy, had no character and were arrogant idiots who thought they didn't have to work.

    I'm not sure if the list goes on and on, but if it does, I"d like to see it.

    To hear some people tell it in here, they'd rather have a guy who doesn't have a strong arm even though there are many types of quarterback traits that fail to transfer to the NFL. Among all QB;s drafted in the 1st round since 1990, about 50% have either been outright busts or they've significantly disappointed relative to their draft position. I have no doubt we remember the big arm guys the most, but does that mean they are more likely to bust? I doubt it. I'm thinking that the bust potential has more to do with other things, like work ethic, inability to process information quickly, inexperience in pro-style offenses, lack of enough college starting experience, injuries, bad fits for particular offenses, and yes...lack of an NFL throwing arm.

    I keep waiting for someone...anyone...to come forth and tell Allen's story, because it's one you rarely hear. This guy's a very late bloomer, an extremely hard worker, and he played in a bad situation with minimal talent around him. I realize accuracy is important, but the arbitrary cutoff at 60% for a college passer doesn't necessarily tell you much about any one particular guy, and this might be one that it doesn't tell the whole story on.

    All 4 of the top guys are risky, every one...so I'm not sure it's any more risky to gamble on a guy who is really just beginning to tap his potential vs one that may have already tapped out, especially when he does have that kind of arm.

    Go look up his highlights. There's a pass in there that he throws while on the run to his right, throwing as he's off balance and heading out of bounds. It's a TD...and I've seen only one other arm in the NFL that I think could make that throw.

    That guy is watching this guy...so it would not surprise me if he drafts him.
    Add Lynch to the lazy entitled group that thought he didn’t need to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • footstepsfrom#27
    replied
    Originally posted by broncosteven View Post
    I am tired of people falling in love with big armed QB's. I think Fundamentals trump everything. If a guy has great mechanics, is smart, and has some size, between 6'3 and 6'5 he can be a great QB. Some of these strong armed guys rely too much on their arms, just look a Cutler, great arm talent but threw off his back foot and was stupid situationally.

    The garbage bins of the NFL is littered with strong armed QB's.

    Lynch
    Jarmacus Russell
    The dude from SD who was a total dick, got cut then got addicted to Vicodins.
    The list goes on and on.
    Jamarcus Russel and Ryan Leaf failed not because they didn't' have the talent, but because they were lazy, had no character and were arrogant idiots who thought they didn't have to work.

    I'm not sure if the list goes on and on, but if it does, I"d like to see it.

    To hear some people tell it in here, they'd rather have a guy who doesn't have a strong arm even though there are many types of quarterback traits that fail to transfer to the NFL. Among all QB;s drafted in the 1st round since 1990, about 50% have either been outright busts or they've significantly disappointed relative to their draft position. I have no doubt we remember the big arm guys the most, but does that mean they are more likely to bust? I doubt it. I'm thinking that the bust potential has more to do with other things, like work ethic, inability to process information quickly, inexperience in pro-style offenses, lack of enough college starting experience, injuries, bad fits for particular offenses, and yes...lack of an NFL throwing arm.

    I keep waiting for someone...anyone...to come forth and tell Allen's story, because it's one you rarely hear. This guy's a very late bloomer, an extremely hard worker, and he played in a bad situation with minimal talent around him. I realize accuracy is important, but the arbitrary cutoff at 60% for a college passer doesn't necessarily tell you much about any one particular guy, and this might be one that it doesn't tell the whole story on.

    All 4 of the top guys are risky, every one...so I'm not sure it's any more risky to gamble on a guy who is really just beginning to tap his potential vs one that may have already tapped out, especially when he does have that kind of arm.

    Go look up his highlights. There's a pass in there that he throws while on the run to his right, throwing as he's off balance and heading out of bounds. It's a TD...and I've seen only one other arm in the NFL that I think could make that throw.

    That guy is watching this guy...so it would not surprise me if he drafts him.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoInferno
    replied
    Like Mike Lombardi says, Pro Days are nearly worthless. To illustrate this, he points out that the best pro day he ever saw was JaMarcus Russell and the worst was Peyton Manning.

    Leave a comment:


  • Pogo
    replied
    Originally posted by Archer81 View Post
    He missed on 4 or 5 out of 60, and on deep throws. Three of them were to the same guy, and one of those overthrows hit that WR in the hands and he dropped it. Allen had a good proday. You can see the arm talent and why scouts and some teams would be super interested.


    This answers my question above.

    I am not worried about his deep accuracy, it's more of him showing off his arm strength.

    His accuracy needs to improve on the short and intermediate throws, not an 80 yard bomb.

    Leave a comment:


  • IndelibleScribe
    replied
    Originally posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
    its crazy thats scouts and GMs, year after year, fall in love with guys at pro days
    Not possible, Gabriel told us that teams only care about private workouts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Archer81
    replied
    Originally posted by SonOfLe-loLang View Post
    He was working with them for 2 weeks. It’s not a great sign when accuracy is already your issue

    He missed on 4 or 5 out of 60, and on deep throws. Three of them were to the same guy, and one of those overthrows hit that WR in the hands and he dropped it. Allen had a good proday. You can see the arm talent and why scouts and some teams would be super interested.


    Leave a comment:

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