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Knowshon Moreno appreciation thread

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  • #46
    Originally posted by razorwire77 View Post
    Fight for tough yards? I didn't even see that. The kid averaged slightly more than a yard and fell down like he was getting shot every time he got hit, with the exception of the fumble run. Yeah, interior run blocking was pretty spotty at times, but Moreno was able to get it going a bit between the tackles in the 2nd half. If anyone was fighting for tough yards today, it was KM. Ball did try to fall forward, so I guess there's that.
    You don't apparently know what I mean. When a guy gets stoned by linebackers and linemen before he gets a head of steam you can't really expect much in terms of tackle breaking or tough running. Those guys are bigger and stronger than him. When Ball has gotten a chance to actually get some momentum going however he has shown toughness and the ability to fall forward for extra yardage. You should pay closer attention if you haven't seen it.

    Again, the issue is that he just doesn't react instinctually and fluidly when he gets the ball which prevents him from getting going downhill through a small seam (which is pretty much always there) for whatever he can get. I haven't seen a lot of plays where I think he could've broken off anything big because the blocking is generally bad on the inside, but he needs to be better at making something out of nothing.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by strafen View Post
      He can't be inactive. Right now, we're a lot thinner at RB than we were last year...
      No we aren't. You can definitely question whether or not our top two are as good as last year, but I'm pretty sure CJ offers much better depth than Lance Ball.

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      • #48
        I am happy for Moreno.

        I think we're really missing the input of former RB coach Bobby Turner. Why the hell did we let that guy go to the Redskins?

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
          You don't apparently know what I mean. When a guy gets stoned by linebackers and linemen before he gets a head of steam you can't really expect much in terms of tackle breaking or tough running. Those guys are bigger and stronger than him. When Ball has gotten a chance to actually get some momentum going however he has shown toughness and the ability to fall forward for extra yardage. You should pay closer attention if you haven't seen it.

          Again, the issue is that he just doesn't react instinctually and fluidly when he gets the ball which prevents him from getting going downhill through a small seam (which is pretty much always there) for whatever he can get. I haven't seen a lot of plays where I think he could've broken off anything big because the blocking is generally bad on the inside, but he needs to be better at making something out of nothing.
          I know exactly what you mean. I'm not talking about when the d-line blows up a play in the backfield and stones him, I'm talking about when he gets a little bit of daylight and the first guy that has an angle on him takes him down like nothing. I'm not seeing the toughness between the tackles. Occasionally falling forward does not equal tough running. I think you're confusing the two. Moreno ran hard today. Ball got tackled easily both in space and between the tackles.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by razorwire77 View Post
            I know exactly what you mean. I'm not talking about when the d-line blows up a play in the backfield and stones him, I'm talking about when he gets a little bit of daylight and the first guy that has an angle on him takes him down like nothing. I'm not seeing the toughness between the tackles. Occasionally falling forward does not equal tough running. I think you're confusing the two. Moreno ran hard today. Ball got tackled easily both in space and between the tackles.
            To be clear, I'm not talking about today alone. I'm talking about what I've seen with the guy through preseason and two regular season games. You're right that today he didn't really have any examples of tough gainers, but he has shown it before on a few occasions so far. We still have a very small sample to go off of with the guy, but I've seen him do some good things when he hits the hole with a head of steam (when he can find the hole).

            Oh and it's not like Moreno was punishing anyone out there. He broke off some nice runs mostly due to finding the openings that Ball is failing to find, not due to breaking lots of tackles.

            Also, it seems like roughly half of Ball's carries he has been stoned in the back field or at the line of scrimmage. So while I'm willing to criticize Ball's lack of good instincts and vision so far, I really want to make it clear I still think our biggest issue with our running game is blocking, especially inside blocking.
            Last edited by Agamemnon; 09-15-2013, 11:35 PM.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by razorwire77 View Post
              I know exactly what you mean. I'm not talking about when the d-line blows up a play in the backfield and stones him, I'm talking about when he gets a little bit of daylight and the first guy that has an angle on him takes him down like nothing. I'm not seeing the toughness between the tackles. Occasionally falling forward does not equal tough running. I think you're confusing the two. Moreno ran hard today. Ball got tackled easily both in space and between the tackles.
              That seems like 3/4 of his rush attempts. Can you point out some examples you are speaking of?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by snowspot66 View Post
                That seems like 3/4 of his rush attempts. Can you point out some examples you are speaking of?
                This is why I have mixed feelings about coming down on the guy. There are plays I see with the guy that make me wonder about his instincts and vision, but so many of his carries he's just got nothing to work with. I really don't know what to think. Moreno blew him away to day, but most of Moreno's yards came on two outside runs behind Franklin and it feels like 99% of Ball's carries are coming behind our garbage interior run blocking.

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                • #53
                  I agree that interior-line blocking problems haven't helped him and quite a few times, he never had a chance. However, there were opportunities there. Even if you take away Moreno's two long runs, he still went off tackle for 7 or 8, and a couple of plays went off tackle for 10 or 11 on the Welker TD drive to go up 17-9. Moreno also had a couple big runs off of interior line blocks at the beginning of the 4th quarter. The pattern I saw was Moreno grinding out 2 or 3 and occasionally finding some daylight and then Ball coming in to spell him and getting a yard at best. Sometimes it was poor blocking, sometimes it was just not getting off the snap quickly and as Agamemnon said, not showing any real vision.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by razorwire77 View Post
                    I agree that interior-line blocking problems haven't helped him and quite a few times, he never had a chance. However, there were opportunities there. Even if you take away Moreno's two long runs, he still went off tackle for 7 or 8, and a couple of plays went off tackle for 10 or 11 on the Welker TD drive to go up 17-9. Moreno also had a couple big runs off of interior line blocks at the beginning of the 4th quarter. The pattern I saw was Moreno grinding out 2 or 3 and occasionally finding some daylight and then Ball coming in to spell him and getting a yard at best. Sometimes it was poor blocking, sometimes it was just not getting off the snap quickly and as Agamemnon said, not showing any real vision.
                    I think we are mostly in agreement. It is hard to separate the bad blocking and Ball's own struggles, but I think at this point he is clearly having struggles. Moreno's instincts are just so much better than Ball right now. All I can hope is that something clicks for him at some point going forward. I just have misgivings as running back is the one position where you are usually the guy you look like as a rookie for your entire career. Backs who aren't very good as rookies only occasionally turn into something special later on.

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                    • #55
                      Good game KM! He started off dancing in the 1st qtr, but picked up momentum taking it outside to the right. There was some good blocking on the right and he took full advantage of that. He also held onto the ball. blocked well and moved the chains. That's all you can ask. Nice job Moreno.

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                      • #56
                        Everyone making fun of Giants for Knowshon being able to get around the edge. Lol.

                        Good blocking on the outside.

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                        • #57
                          Knowshon had a great game. Green had a couple good blocks that really sprung him loose.

                          The line is so much better at pass blocking than run blocking. I have a hard time faulting Ball when half the time he is met behind the line of scrimmage by several linemen. Plus he has 8 real NFL quarters under his belt. He is still very much a rookie. Not sure why many expect rookies to come in and set the world on fire right away.

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                          • #58
                            Knowshon has turned into a very solid football player, and developed a bit of a nasty streak. What's most impressive is his field awareness in blocking and general play (ie. that fumble recovery).

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by DivineLegion View Post
                              Knowshon has turned into a very solid football player, and developed a bit of a nasty streak. What's most impressive is his field awareness in blocking and general play (ie. that fumble recovery).
                              I agree.

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                              • #60
                                He's clearly won the starting job, which shouldn't have been much of a surprise from what we saw in preseason.

                                Unfortunately, it's just a matter of time before he gets hurt again, so the others better be taking notes.

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