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  • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

    Yeah it totally wasn’t lucky Mahomes was the 3rd QB taken at #10 lol. Are you touched?
    .....I will concede there was an element of luck to this....but it isn't the part you are claiming. KC identified the guy well before the draft....and they dumped a QB who had been winning divisions and having good statistical seasons to go get this guy....so to claim they spent a lotto ticket on him just isn't true.

    However...what is true is that FOR ONCE...the draft lined up in just such a way that would allow for KC to be able to come up from 27.....only up to 10, and get a player of Mahomes caliber. This IS the lucky element.

    1. Cleveland, needing a QB, opts to go with consensus best player in draft, Myles Garrett.
    2. Chicago, traded up from 3 to 2, to draft Mitch Trubisky...who alot of teams had as 1st QB in this draft. Bad eval by Ryan Pace, Chicago GM.
    3. San Francisco, having dropped one spot, and needing a QB themselves (no Jimmy G yet) opted for Stanford DE Solomon Thomas.
    4. Jacksonville, with Blake Bortals still in fold, they opted for RB, Leonard Fournette.
    5. Tennessee, with Mariotta still considered the undisputed starter, they drafted WR, Corey Davis
    6. NY Jets, They had taken QB Christian Hackenberg, in round 2 in 2016 and still wanted to see what they had, so they took S Jamal Adams.
    7. San Diego, had Rivers entrenched at QB. Took WR Mike Williams
    8. Carolina, had Cam Newton entrenched at QB. Took RB Christian McCaffrey
    9. Cincinnatti. Had Andy Dalton entrenched at QB, took WR John Ross.

    10. Buffalo. trades pick to KC. Buffalo moves back to 27 and picks up a 3rd and a 2018 first.

    here is the thing with the Bills. During the offseason heading to the 2017 Draft, they fired their coach, and in late January, hired Sean McDermott to be their new HC. He had a D coordinator background. They did not fire their GM, Doug Whaley, but it was known by all parties he would only be kept on through the draft. McDermott is on record stating he wasn't in the QB market in 2017 because he didn't want to make that selection with a lame duck GM, and wanted input from whoever the new GM would be, and be on the same page, so going into 2017, even though they needed a QB, they had already determined they were all in for the super 2018 QB class that was coming up. The Bills actually came out of this deal very well considering their goals on draft day. Not in QB market. Trade for more draft capital for 2018. At pick 27, they got all pro CB Tre White and they converted their 2018 draft captial into impact players also. The mistake wasn't the trade out of 10 on draft day....their mistake was their cumbersome hire Coach, but hold GM through draft bungling of their FO.

    And....of course at 10, KC gets Mahomes.

    Watson would go to the Texans at 12.......by trading up to that spot that had been held by the Browns.....who missed on Mahomes and Watson.

    Also worth noting. Sean Peyton has gone on record, and it was also strongly rumored at the time, they were going to select Mahomes at 11 if he was there.


    So, lucky? Yes....lucky that 10 teams mostly had their QB already, even though they were drafting high coming off bad seasons. But KC was zeroed in him....also confirmed rumor KC thought they might have to go all the way to 5 to get him and tried to trade up there, but couldn't make a deal with the Titans.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post

      .....I will concede there was an element of luck to this....but it isn't the part you are claiming. KC identified the guy well before the draft....and they dumped a QB who had been winning divisions and having good statistical seasons to go get this guy....so to claim they spent a lotto ticket on him just isn't true.

      However...what is true is that FOR ONCE...the draft lined up in just such a way that would allow for KC to be able to come up from 27.....only up to 10, and get a player of Mahomes caliber. This IS the lucky element.

      1. Cleveland, needing a QB, opts to go with consensus best player in draft, Myles Garrett.
      2. Chicago, traded up from 3 to 2, to draft Mitch Trubisky...who alot of teams had as 1st QB in this draft. Bad eval by Ryan Pace, Chicago GM.
      3. San Francisco, having dropped one spot, and needing a QB themselves (no Jimmy G yet) opted for Stanford DE Solomon Thomas.
      4. Jacksonville, with Blake Bortals still in fold, they opted for RB, Leonard Fournette.
      5. Tennessee, with Mariotta still considered the undisputed starter, they drafted WR, Corey Davis
      6. NY Jets, They had taken QB Christian Hackenberg, in round 2 in 2016 and still wanted to see what they had, so they took S Jamal Adams.
      7. San Diego, had Rivers entrenched at QB. Took WR Mike Williams
      8. Carolina, had Cam Newton entrenched at QB. Took RB Christian McCaffrey
      9. Cincinnatti. Had Andy Dalton entrenched at QB, took WR John Ross.

      10. Buffalo. trades pick to KC. Buffalo moves back to 27 and picks up a 3rd and a 2018 first.

      here is the thing with the Bills. During the offseason heading to the 2017 Draft, they fired their coach, and in late January, hired Sean McDermott to be their new HC. He had a D coordinator background. They did not fire their GM, Doug Whaley, but it was known by all parties he would only be kept on through the draft. McDermott is on record stating he wasn't in the QB market in 2017 because he didn't want to make that selection with a lame duck GM, and wanted input from whoever the new GM would be, and be on the same page, so going into 2017, even though they needed a QB, they had already determined they were all in for the super 2018 QB class that was coming up. The Bills actually came out of this deal very well considering their goals on draft day. Not in QB market. Trade for more draft capital for 2018. At pick 27, they got all pro CB Tre White and they converted their 2018 draft captial into impact players also. The mistake wasn't the trade out of 10 on draft day....their mistake was their cumbersome hire Coach, but hold GM through draft bungling of their FO.

      And....of course at 10, KC gets Mahomes.

      Watson would go to the Texans at 12.......by trading up to that spot that had been held by the Browns.....who missed on Mahomes and Watson.

      Also worth noting. Sean Peyton has gone on record, and it was also strongly rumored at the time, they were going to select Mahomes at 11 if he was there.


      So, lucky? Yes....lucky that 10 teams mostly had their QB already, even though they were drafting high coming off bad seasons. But KC was zeroed in him....also confirmed rumor KC thought they might have to go all the way to 5 to get him and tried to trade up there, but couldn't make a deal with the Titans.
      The bolded part is why what happen was all luck as far as getting to 10. Identifying the player is not luck. Finding a trade partner 17 spots ahead of you is luck.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

        Oh yeah. For some reason I was thinking Watson went before him. Point remains that the Chiefs absolutely were lucky to get a QB of Mahomes’ level at #10. If that draft were redone Mahomes and Watson go #1 and #2, and the Chiefs never sniff him. I mean there’s nothing wrong with being lucky. Pretty much every successful team has some luck going their way. Denying that is just stupid.
        Yeah. There's a smidge of luck in every situation. Cool. Good point.

        Totally comparable to two once-in-a-lifetime situations. Guys like Manning are ALWAYS available to sign while still in their prime.

        In KC's situation, it was far more smarts and effort than luck. No, they weren't guaranteed to get him at 10, but they knew it was likely. They had "intel" that Mahomes would be taken shortly after the 9th pick.

        No one (who needed a franchise QB) would have thought twice about signing Elway or Manning. Many GMs were not that interested in Mahomes. Or were more interested in Trubisky, Watson, or others.
        Last edited by RockyMountainOyster; 01-31-2020, 10:05 AM.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by RockyMountainOyster View Post

          Yeah. There's a smidge of luck in every situation. Cool. Good point.

          Totally comparable to two once-in-a-lifetime situations. Guys like Manning are ALWAYS available to sign while still in their prime.

          In KC's situation, it was far more smarts and effort than luck. No, they weren't guaranteed to get him at 10, but they knew it was likely. They had "intel" that Mahomes would be taken shortly after the 9th pick.

          No one (who needed a franchise QB) would have thought twice about signing Elway or Manning. Many GMs were not that interested in Mahomes. Or were more interested in Trubisky, Watson, or others.
          And how often are QBs like Mahomes available at #10? You really don’t think your arguments through very well do you?

          By the way, Peyton’s health was a big question mark. You’re engaging in pure revisionism.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by broncosjf View Post
            That element of luck is involved in literally every free agent signing. The biggest part of good luck is good planning and the initiative to seize opportunities.


            I didn't say he was the next Elway, I said he had the potential to be the next good QB. And is this the part where we pretend that it is substantially different to trade for Elway a week after the draft than it would have been to trade for the pick and select him?




            Careful, your agenda is showing...

            Only someone trying to push a narrative would label choosing him with the second of two picks in a row, to save a little money based on QB and draft position, as not having confidence in taking him with the pick right before.
            Any unbiased party would agree that passing on a QB multiple times indicates that you're not really THAT high on him. Compare that to trading up 17 spots to get Mahomes. That's what you do when you've identified your QB of the future. Then again, Elway isn't exactly adept at evaluating QBs.

            And sure, there's "luck involved in every free agent signing." But are you seriously going to compare a QB that some would rank top 5 ALL TIME being available to some random FA?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post

              And how often are QBs like Mahomes available at #10? You really don’t think your arguments through very well do you?
              Hilarious that you immediately follow this sentence with talk about "revisionism."

              In hindsight, this is easy to say, but you do understand that a lot of GMs weren't high on Mahomes at the time, right? And you do realize that GMs talk to each other? Like I said, there were whispers that he would be taken shortly after the 9th pick. There's a reason they traded up to 10. And they probably would've done what it took to get higher if they thought there were a realistic chance of him being taken.

              If the consensus top QB fell to #10, that would be very lucky. This was not the consensus top QB (except to Veach and the Chiefs). It's not that complicated.

              Comment


              • Rocky Mountain Oyster must still be a teen. You will learn as you grow up that if you really believe in yourself (or your team), you don’t need to try to convince others or seek their approval in a “Chief’s Suck” thread.

                You are not content unless everybody in this thread says “oh, my bad. The Chiefs don’t really suck.”

                Good luck with that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by RockyMountainOyster View Post

                  Any unbiased party would agree that passing on a QB multiple times indicates that you're not really THAT high on him. Compare that to trading up 17 spots to get Mahomes. That's what you do when you've identified your QB of the future. Then again, Elway isn't exactly adept at evaluating QBs.
                  Elway passed on him once, for Fant, unless you're going to try to make the case that picking him with the 42nd pick means that he "passed" on him when Elway took Risner at 41.

                  There is no functional difference between Elway using pick 41 on Lock and pick 42 on Risner, or vice versa, except a couple hundred thousand dollars of salary by picking Lock at 42. Nobody with sense would infer that Elway passed on Lock in the 2nd round.

                  And sure, there's "luck involved in every free agent signing." But are you seriously going to compare a QB that some would rank top 5 ALL TIME being available to some random FA?
                  It was a giant gamble at the time, because no one knew if he'd be able to play again. There's a reason the Colts drafted Luck and let Manning walk. It was so far from a slam dunk signing that there was a gaggle of Chiefs fans here taunting and laughing, claiming that the Broncos got a damaged QB who was one hit from having his head pop off and that they'd never win with a broken down crippled Manning.

                  Now you come around years later, with the benefit of hindsight, to mischaracterize it as a surefire, legendary free agent signing that fell into Elway's lap. The Broncos weren't Peyton's only option, but anybody remotely comfortable at QB wasn't interested in the risk and there was a lot of speculation that the Broncos had made a mistake thinking there was anything of the old Peyton Manning left after the 4 neck surgeries. He couldn't even hold a football that spring, let alone throw one.

                  Comment


                  • Oyster: Mahomes is the greatest evarrrrr!!!!!

                    Also Oyster: Totally not lucky to get Mahomes at the #10 pick.

                    Makes sense if you’re an inbred Chiefs fan I guess...

                    Comment


                    • If mahomes has his inevitable first bad game this Sunday I will cum so hard my mushroom cap will split open like the plant in little shop of horrors.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Arkie View Post
                        Rocky Mountain Oyster must still be a teen. You will learn as you grow up that if you really believe in yourself (or your team), you don’t need to try to convince others or seek their approval in a “Chief’s Suck” thread.

                        You are not content unless everybody in this thread says “oh, my bad. The Chiefs don’t really suck.”

                        Good luck with that.
                        Couldn't care less if anyone ever says that.

                        Let's see...I'm the one who states what I believe, while the rest of you desperately cling to narratives that you know are far from true (i.e. "Mahomes won't never win cuz Chiiiiiiiiefs...derrrrr!!")....

                        Yet I'm the immature one?

                        Clown show.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
                          Oyster: Mahomes is the greatest evarrrrr!!!!!

                          Also Oyster: Totally not lucky to get Mahomes at the #10 pick.

                          Makes sense if you’re an inbred Chiefs fan I guess...
                          So you're actually struggling to understand the concept of a player outperforming the average person's expectations?

                          How do you get through life? I think it's pretty obvious whose parents were cousins.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by OABB View Post
                            If mahomes has his inevitable first bad game this Sunday I will cum so hard my mushroom cap will split open like the plant in little shop of horrors.
                            Dude, I just ate...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by RockyMountainOyster View Post

                              So you're actually struggling to understand the concept of a player outperforming the average person's expectations?

                              How do you get through life? I think it's pretty obvious whose parents were cousins.
                              No, you’re the one who can’t wrap his head around a simple fact like ten other teams could have drafted Mahomes, including the one you traded with to get to #10. Arguing that wasn’t luck is literally retarded, and by extension you are retarded. I mean seriously, you keep touting the guy as the GOAT, and yet can’t wrap your head around how lucky you were that all those other teams undervalued him. Go back to school and take some critical thinking classes or something.

                              Comment


                              • I want to see Drew Lock play Mahomes one on one in basketball. They could sell a lot of tickets to that.

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