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Keystone pipeline dealt a big blow

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Fedaykin View Post
    Even the newest, bestest-ist maintained pipelines leak like sieves. You're trading isolated, definitive and impossible to ignore incidents for a persistent, endless and easy to ignore problem that will affect a lot more people than the former.
    I can agree that sounds reasonable. I'm not a pipeline expert. But regardless my position will be to drill and pump the oil out of the ground. Why? Because we use a ton of it and are in a competition with other countries.

    I still see this as the human RACE and other countries like China won't be stopping. They are coming for us. We need to develop and pump all our oil.

    Put the best and brightest in charge of making it as safe as possible.

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    • #62
      Or do nuclear power but that scares me more then some spilled oil.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
        Your problem here is one of focus. Earth does not hang in the balance over the building of the Keystone XL pipeline.

        The choice isn't between building the pipeline and Saving Mother Earth.

        The choice is between railroading that oil, or pumping it.

        Ignoring that fairly important reality, you oppose the pipeline based purely on a quasi-religious, anti-science "MSNBC said Oil Pipelines are bad Mmmmkay" basis.

        Meanwhile, in the real world, pipelines result in a lower percentage of oil being spilled, fewer spill incidents in general, and (most importantly) far lower costs in human health and life.

        Needless to say, once you make the leap to sacrificing lives on the altar of hollow political statements, you've crossed over into something resembling primitive token worship more than reason.
        You're the one throwing mythological terms like Gaia around. Spills are immaterial, in the great scheme of things. What counts is what gets burned and loaded into the atmosphere. Hundreds of thousands of acres of land will go fallow in California this year (15% of U.S. crops and 7% of livestock). We just saw "Hundred Year" ice storms in the South and "Hundred Year" polar vortices dropping into the North, hundred year wind storms in Wales and hundred years rain in Europe. These "Hundred Year" events have become commonplace. Here, read what some of these "Gaians" think: http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~kari...neHydrates.pdf

        The rightards are like a man alone on a sailboat in the middle of the ocean who sees massive black clouds gathering on the horizon. He sees the lightning and hears the thunder. Does he reef his mainsail or hang his storm jib? No. Does he lock down the hatches and secure his gear? No. Does he change into his personal storm gear and prepare his emergency equipment? No. What does he do? He just says, "There is no storm." And that takes care of it.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
          If only pipelines were illegal. Then the gulf oil spill would've never happened.

          I pity a man who takes pride in his stupidity.

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          • #65
            You have to wonder. Warren Buffet kisses Obamas ass, buys a ton of railroad stock, and now stands to benefit from a keystone shutdown.

            Liberals just as dumb as conservatives. The real reason the govt does something is always because of money. Guiding it from where it is going, to where they want it to go.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
              You're the one throwing mythological terms like Gaia around. Spills are immaterial, in the great scheme of things. What counts is what gets burned and loaded into the atmosphere. Hundreds of thousands of acres of land will go fallow in California this year (15% of U.S. crops and 7% of livestock). We just saw "Hundred Year" ice storms in the South and "Hundred Year" polar vortices dropping into the North, hundred year wind storms in Wales and hundred years rain in Europe. These "Hundred Year" events have become commonplace. Here, read what some of these "Gaians" think: http://www.physics.rutgers.edu/~kari...neHydrates.pdf

              The rightards are like a man alone on a sailboat in the middle of the ocean who sees massive black clouds gathering on the horizon. He sees the lightning and hears the thunder. Does he reef his mainsail or hang his storm jib? No. Does he lock down the hatches and secure his gear? No. Does he change into his personal storm gear and prepare his emergency equipment? No. What does he do? He just says, "There is no storm." And that takes care of it.
              More irrelevancy (or maybe self-defeating relevancy)

              Which is responsible for more CO2 release? Oil transport via pipeline or oil transport via rail?

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              • #67
                Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                http://conservationmagazine.org/2012...l-that-oil-go/

                Now maybe that is written by oil companies lol. I don't know.
                All that article states is that some of the oil triggered a massive bacterial bloom. And what will be the offshoot of that?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                  I can agree that sounds reasonable. I'm not a pipeline expert. But regardless my position will be to drill and pump the oil out of the ground. Why? Because we use a ton of it and are in a competition with other countries.

                  I still see this as the human RACE and other countries like China won't be stopping. They are coming for us. We need to develop and pump all our oil.

                  Put the best and brightest in charge of making it as safe as possible.
                  Only a fool decides to put the best and the brightest in charge of breeding the best horses and most efficient carriages rather than, you know, developing the automobile.

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                  • #69
                    Meh we have plenty of smart people to do both Houghtam. We can drill oil and search for new technologies at the same time.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
                      All that article states is that some of the oil triggered a massive bacterial bloom. And what will be the offshoot of that?
                      Since the eat oil, once oil gone I would guess the die, screw the water quality up and kill some wildlife, but then eventually are gone and things get back to normal.

                      The ocean full of bacteria of different types i would guess. The ocean will clean them out.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by houghtam View Post
                        Only a fool decides to put the best and the brightest in charge of breeding the best horses and most efficient carriages rather than, you know, developing the automobile.
                        Maybe, but he's still not nearly as bad as the fool who believes command and control decisions like that are centrally made (to any effect) in a complex macroeconomy.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                          Meh we have plenty of smart people to do both Houghtam. We can drill oil and search for new technologies at the same time.
                          You don't think the Chinese science community is coming to the same conclusion everyone else is? That oil is in limited supply no matter how you slice it, and dependence upon it is a threat to national security? You don't think their science community is researching ways to solve the fossil fuel problem? So if we must RACE them to grab all the oil, why mustn't we RACE them to discover new technologies which render it obsolete?

                          Because it doesn't fit your Currencian argument. That's why.

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                          • #73
                            If ever we were going to an alternative energy, now would be the time. We've got to get rid of the internal combustion engine.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                              Since the eat oil, once oil gone I would guess the die, screw the water quality up and kill some wildlife, but then eventually are gone and things get back to normal.

                              The ocean full of bacteria of different types i would guess. The ocean will clean them out.
                              I'm sure the earth says the same about us.

                              "Meh. Just some wildlife. Things will eventually get back to normal."

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                                Since the eat oil, once oil gone I would guess the die, screw the water quality up and kill some wildlife, but then eventually are gone and things get back to normal.

                                The ocean full of bacteria of different types i would guess. The ocean will clean them out.
                                Given the rising acidification of the oceans, there is no "normal" anymore. We assume the ocean can pretty much just clean up anything we toss into it. Not true.

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