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  • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Oh ffs. If it ends up only being 20,000 dead in the UK it will be because of the shutdown of the country. We have a very definitive case study in the Diamond Princess which makes it clear that even with thorough testing and high quality medical treatment this thing kills well over 1% of those it infects. That is over ten times the mortality rate of the flu if you have ventilators for everyone who needs one. If you don't, the mortality rate goes up quite a bit. If this thing were to be allowed to spread unchecked in the US the death toll would likely top 1 million.

    Oh, and let's not forget that roughly as many people end up with long-term lung damage as die from this. That's kind of a big deal too.
    UK death rate right now is rivaling Italy. Johmson was taking the Sweden approach.l, then things got real.

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    • Originally posted by AlaskaMagnum View Post

      And, another one who fails geography (maybe you and Shane should compare notes).
      Taiwan is NOT an independent country. It is considered part of PRC since 1949. It's a political hot button. The UN won't recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. That is why that WHO doctor Falco the Failure posted kept dodging the question. Shane is too stupid to understand what was going on and thought the WHO doctor was dumb. Turns out Falco is too dumb to discern what is actually taking place, but still comments.

      Jesus the Conservatives are just so poorly educated...
      China can claim ownership over Taiwan all they want but they don't dare invade and countries across the globe treat them as an individual body in almost all regards except having official embassies (except for a handful across the globe). Even those countries that don't "recognize" Taiwan still trade and interact with them, plus have defense agreements, as if they are their own country. Maybe taper down your conservative hatred for a moment considering most people in the US, including your preferred political leaning, couldn't even find Taiwan on a map let alone discuss the intricacies of global relations with two countries still technically in a civil war.

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      • Originally posted by Johnykbr View Post

        China can claim ownership over Taiwan all they want but they don't dare invade and countries across the globe treat them as an individual body in almost all regards except having official embassies (except for a handful across the globe). Even those countries that don't "recognize" Taiwan still trade and interact with them, plus have defense agreements, as if they are their own country. Maybe taper down your conservative hatred for a moment considering most people in the US, including your preferred political leaning, couldn't even find Taiwan on a map let alone discuss the intricacies of global relations with two countries still technically in a civil war.
        Tell your buddy who couldn't understand why the guy feom the WHO wouldn't address Tiawan as its own country and lumped them with China.

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        • Originally posted by AlaskaMagnum View Post

          Tell your buddy who couldn't understand why the guy feom the WHO wouldn't address Tiawan as its own country and lumped them with China.
          I would argue the best time to point fingers and politicize every detail will be down the line. Right now the focus needs to be on containing and protecting people and hopefully saving lives. All this finger pointing is a huge distraction, and will result in more deaths.

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          • Originally posted by Broncoman13 View Post

            Where did you pull this data and what has it looked like the past 4 days?
            Thank you... another question, is this world wide or America only?

            I ask because the model I have been tracking shows a 2.4 times increase over 5 days which would mean an average growth of 128% per day.

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            • my fav. video on viruses from BBC: https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6agslv

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              • Originally posted by Powderaddict View Post

                I have seen the videos of people being forcibly taken. It was brutal. I believe that thousands more died than reported. There were whistleblowers that just straight up vanished. I'm not condoning any of that. But I haven't seen anything credible that says they were killing people left and right. People were dieing, but from the virus. I do believe the deaths due to the virus were severely underreported. I am not condoning how they treated whislteblowers or citizen journalists at all.

                I'm simply saying locking everything down, forcing people to stay home, and forced quarantine were effective at slowing the spread of the virus. That's it. That's all I said. That's it. You are reading more into it than I am saying.

                As far as living under a communist regime, you are right. I've never lived in a communist country. I do currently live in a socialist country ran by a dictator. I've lived through a civil revolt that was brutally shut down. I also saw how social media was used by both sides to spread false information. I have seen firsthand how videos and reports can be manipulated and misrepresented to provide a false narrative. I have seen videos and reports of events that supposedly took place tight where I was standing, that never happened. So maybe I am a bit jaded and suspicious when I read sensationalized reports.

                I will repeat this part because you seem to have a hard time grasping what I am saying. I'm simply saying locking everything down, forcing people to stay home, and forced quarantine were effective at slowing the spread of the virus. That's it.
                Having lived in a communist regime, my brothers, sisters, parents and I understand what they can do and what they will do. Again, they have a mentality that people are nothing more than cattle to them. The people are there to serve a greater good. That greater good is their pockets and oh yeah, the nation. If you anyway dare speak up against them, you are shut down quick. You might have not seen the videos, but I have. My wife and father-in-law follows this very close via international outlets. The report is they are killing people who they think are infected. There is no ICU. There is no respirators. There is one thing, if you are deemed too sick you are put down. What you see that the Chinese government release is nothing more than propaganda.

                I agree we need a lock down and restrict all movement. I don't believe in a forced quarantine. With the medical staff already over burdened, who will run these forced quarantine facilities? Who will take care of these sick people? What facility can handle 10,000 beds, sheets, pillows, food, water, medical supplies, bathrooms? Let the people stay home to where family and love ones can take care of them. Open quarantine centers that are optional.

                I understand there are information that is manipulated on both sides. Manipulation requires power and influence. In a communist regime, the common people have neither power or influence.

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                • Originally posted by AlaskaMagnum View Post

                  And, another one who fails geography (maybe you and Shane should compare notes).
                  Taiwan is NOT an independent country. It is considered part of PRC since 1949. It's a political hot button. The UN won't recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. That is why that WHO doctor Falco the Failure posted kept dodging the question. Shane is too stupid to understand what was going on and thought the WHO doctor was dumb. Turns out Falco is too dumb to discern what is actually taking place, but still comments.

                  Jesus the Conservatives are just so poorly educated...
                  Ask any Taiwanese if they are part of China. I don't care what the UN thinks, they are absolutely useless. China can claim what they want, but they don't dare invade Taiwan as long as the US is supporting them.

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                  • Originally posted by SleepingTiger View Post

                    Having lived in a communist regime, my brothers, sisters, parents and I understand what they can do and what they will do. Again, they have a mentality that people are nothing more than cattle to them. The people are there to serve a greater good. That greater good is their pockets and oh yeah, the nation. If you anyway dare speak up against them, you are shut down quick. You might have not seen the videos, but I have. My wife and father-in-law follows this very close via international outlets. The report is they are killing people who they think are infected. There is no ICU. There is no respirators. There is one thing, if you are deemed too sick you are put down. What you see that the Chinese government release is nothing more than propaganda.

                    I agree we need a lock down and restrict all movement. I don't believe in a forced quarantine. With the medical staff already over burdened, who will run these forced quarantine facilities? Who will take care of these sick people? What facility can handle 10,000 beds, sheets, pillows, food, water, medical supplies, bathrooms? Let the people stay home to where family and love ones can take care of them. Open quarantine centers that are optional.

                    I understand there are information that is manipulated on both sides. Manipulation requires power and influence. In a communist regime, the common people have neither power or influence.
                    I think we are having 2 different conversations to be honest. I can see with your background why you read into my comments what I never intended. I thought I was making myself clear that I wasn't praising them, but understood why people said their methods were effective. I could have been more clear on that.

                    I did see videos where people were forcibly taken from their families. That is brutal. I worry about people spreading the sicknesses to their families as well. Forced quarantines can help protect families, but that should be their choice. I have not seen videos where they were gunning down people. I am not saying it didn't happen, I just have not seen evidence of it. But I wouldn't be completely surprised, based on the history there.

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                    • Originally posted by Powderaddict View Post

                      I would argue the best time to point fingers and politicize every detail will be down the line. Right now the focus needs to be on containing and protecting people and hopefully saving lives. All this finger pointing is a huge distraction, and will result in more deaths.
                      I get what you're saying but man you're looking at it from a western/north american perspective.

                      I can tell you this is the exact time and right now to point fingers when more and more information is coming out about how the Chinese government used barbaric methods to stop information about this virus coming out into the public global domain. It took a ****ing whistleblower to do that.

                      And then, knowing about the possibility of a new virus, it's high infection rate, still allowed vast numbers of their population to leave via international flights since they were working as cheap labor abroad rather than locking down it's borders and informing the rest of the world. That's how the infection spread initially in Italy and then other countries in Europe.

                      And now China is sending PPE shipments to the same victims and countries it helped infect in the first place. **** the Chinese government and it's supporters and yeah it's their fault. That's like handing out condoms to people you've knowingly given herpes.

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                      • The people from the WHO are supposed to avoid commenting on things like the China/Taiwan dispute because if they say what they're probably thinking China would tell them to **** off. If China tells the WHO to **** off it only makes deadly pandemics more likely. It's amazing that people are too stupid to get this.

                        Also, while China deserves blame for this crisis, the reality is that most who are focusing on China are doing so purely to deflect blame from Trump. Trump ****ed this one up horribly. Experts on pandemics are all saying as much, and they aren't doing so for political reasons. They are doing so because it's just the truth. In the end, Trump will be responsible for hundreds of thousands of American deaths. He should be held accountable for that regardless of what party he belongs to.

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                        • Well for all of you pointing the finger at China, does China care ? No China does not care. If you think about it, how many folks kept saying don't believe China, and WHO and CDC should start planing on the pandemic. WHO and CDC didn't care either, our leaders sit on their asses and kept laughing about the problem in China. You see the stock market back then, it laughed off about the problem in China. Look when China shut down Wuhan, US and the rest of the world should do the same, but we didn't and we are paying the price for it. Even the WHO and CDC kept saying relax FLU killed more, even when China said the virus can be transmitt by droplets, during incubation period, nobody listen. If you don't think so just search back for those articles and read for yourself. Look at South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Hong Kong ... those countries understand and they implemented right away and the WHO and CDC still say relax. US does not prepare for any catastrphe, all our leaders and people always believe it is not going to be me, but when it comes, then just blame someone else for the problem. Blame also on coporate America too, if they are not greedy and abuse the labor market in China, this wouldn't be problem either.

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                          • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
                            The people from the WHO are supposed to avoid commenting on things like the China/Taiwan dispute because if they say what they're probably thinking China would tell them to **** off. If China tells the WHO to **** off it only makes deadly pandemics more likely. It's amazing that people are too stupid to get this.

                            Also, while China deserves blame for this crisis, the reality is that most who are focusing on China are doing so purely to deflect blame from Trump. Trump ****ed this one up horribly. Experts on pandemics are all saying as much, and they aren't doing so for political reasons. They are doing so because it's just the truth. In the end, Trump will be responsible for hundreds of thousands of American deaths. He should be held accountable for that regardless of what party he belongs to.
                            This is the most inaccurate statement you’ve ever made. And, trust me, that’s saying a lot. Absolute and utter tds bulls**t.

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                            • Originally posted by Agamemnon View Post
                              The people from the WHO are supposed to avoid commenting on things like the China/Taiwan dispute because if they say what they're probably thinking China would tell them to **** off. If China tells the WHO to **** off it only makes deadly pandemics more likely. It's amazing that people are too stupid to get this.

                              Also, while China deserves blame for this crisis, the reality is that most who are focusing on China are doing so purely to deflect blame from Trump. Trump ****ed this one up horribly. Experts on pandemics are all saying as much, and they aren't doing so for political reasons. They are doing so because it's just the truth. In the end, Trump will be responsible for hundreds of thousands of American deaths. He should be held accountable for that regardless of what party he belongs to.
                              This is not about Trump. Every major western nation has been hit hard. Germany, England, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Netherlands and the US.

                              You're a dumb ass. For two months China hid this plague from the world. To this day, they are still withholding information that is vital for people to understand and combat this pandemic. It was a complete lie that this virus only kills the weak and elderly. The fact is this virus kills no matter what age group or what health condition you are in.

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                              • Originally posted by SleepingTiger View Post

                                This is not about Trump. Every major western nation has been hit hard. Germany, England, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland, Netherlands and the US.

                                You're a dumb ass. For two months China hid this plague from the world. To this day, they are still withholding information that is vital for people to understand and combat this pandemic. It was a complete lie that this virus only kills the weak and elderly. The fact is this virus kills no matter what age group or what health condition you are in.
                                They can "hide" whatever they want. Our intelligence services knew about it in December and briefed Trump. He blew them off. In case you missed it, Trump has been trashing the U.S. intelligence services and the FBI since he took office. He does like Chairman Xi, however, and wants to emulate him.

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