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    Anyone else here a Wanger? I've never voted D in a presidential election, and I haven't voted R since G W B. (I have voted Gary Johnson - L the last two elections) ....I am not a Trump person....although I am very much for his fighting with China on trade.....I won't write book about my stance on Trump.

    Yang, is the only D who completely stays away from the identity politics and blame assignment that the D's enthusiastically embrace. He seems like a guy who actually wants to focus on and solve problems and is willing to work to do that instead of blaming X Y or Z for the problem and then trying to solve it by using the power of the state to blame and penilze, X, Y and Z.

    Alot of people are put off by UBI. On it's surface, as a mostly libertarian leaning person, I can't say I'm thrilled with it....but I am all for it when you package it as a potential alternative to the 1 bazillion social programs we have now that have all sorts of people you have to pay to administer those, the guidlines are odd or can be exploited....some people who actually need the help can't get it..but others gaming the system do...I think if you just cut all that out and write everyone a check..then fine. Then no one is gaming anything, you don't have a ton of beureaucrats trying to decide if you do or don't qualify and who you are paying to administer said programs. You get your check and shut up.

    This appeals to me personlly. Back in 2000, my first wife had left me, and our three kids. I had full custody of a 1, 3, and 5 year old children. No education beyond GED, no money, no prospects...and wasn't getting any child support from her. I ended up having to move in with my mom. I decided I would need to go to college and get a skill and get a good enough job to support me and my kids. I enrolled in school full time, and got a part time job making 8 dollars and hour working about 26-30 hours per week. I applied for child care assistance. I was approved for it, but the social worker kind of had me answer a couple of questions that they sort of prodded me to answer a certain way to qualify. Later on, my boss offered me a 25 cent per hour raise. I had to turn this raise down as it would have caused me to lose the child care benefit. That comes out to 7 dollars and 50 cents more per week on a 30 hour week...and I would lose the entire benefit. At the same time this was happening, I was trying to collect support from my ex wife. EVERY TIME I ever went to county to enforce that, the women there would always...ALWAYS assume I was there to make a payment or catch up on my payments...and would be surprised when I was there to collect.....they would hand me a form...and the first question on the damn form is "Do you know who the father of your child(ren) is? anyhow...I never got her to pay, I turned down the raise and finished tech school with an associates in electronics that I got for 15K and have ridden to a six figure job....I could not have done it without that child care assistance and it was wonky about how I would qualify or not or remain eligible. ....and at the same time...the government agencies that are supposed to be in place to enforce child support wich would have been enough to outright pay for the daycare instead of having to get a governemnt hand out....also weren't set up to assist someone like me.

    This is why I am in favor of UBI. I have no faith in legislators and beaureaucrats to administer "help" efficiently.

    And so this, along with Yang and his problem/solution approach as opposed to others blame and penilize....and I'd vote D for the first time in my life for president if he were the nominee.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
    Anyone else here a Wanger? I've never voted D in a presidential election, and I haven't voted R since G W B. (I have voted Gary Johnson - L the last two elections) ....I am not a Trump person....although I am very much for his fighting with China on trade.....I won't write book about my stance on Trump.

    Yang, is the only D who completely stays away from the identity politics and blame assignment that the D's enthusiastically embrace. He seems like a guy who actually wants to focus on and solve problems and is willing to work to do that instead of blaming X Y or Z for the problem and then trying to solve it by using the power of the state to blame and penilze, X, Y and Z.

    Alot of people are put off by UBI. On it's surface, as a mostly libertarian leaning person, I can't say I'm thrilled with it....but I am all for it when you package it as a potential alternative to the 1 bazillion social programs we have now that have all sorts of people you have to pay to administer those, the guidlines are odd or can be exploited....some people who actually need the help can't get it..but others gaming the system do...I think if you just cut all that out and write everyone a check..then fine. Then no one is gaming anything, you don't have a ton of beureaucrats trying to decide if you do or don't qualify and who you are paying to administer said programs. You get your check and shut up.

    This appeals to me personlly. Back in 2000, my first wife had left me, and our three kids. I had full custody of a 1, 3, and 5 year old children. No education beyond GED, no money, no prospects...and wasn't getting any child support from her. I ended up having to move in with my mom. I decided I would need to go to college and get a skill and get a good enough job to support me and my kids. I enrolled in school full time, and got a part time job making 8 dollars and hour working about 26-30 hours per week. I applied for child care assistance. I was approved for it, but the social worker kind of had me answer a couple of questions that they sort of prodded me to answer a certain way to qualify. Later on, my boss offered me a 25 cent per hour raise. I had to turn this raise down as it would have caused me to lose the child care benefit. That comes out to 7 dollars and 50 cents more per week on a 30 hour week...and I would lose the entire benefit. At the same time this was happening, I was trying to collect support from my ex wife. EVERY TIME I ever went to county to enforce that, the women there would always...ALWAYS assume I was there to make a payment or catch up on my payments...and would be surprised when I was there to collect.....they would hand me a form...and the first question on the damn form is "Do you know who the father of your child(ren) is? anyhow...I never got her to pay, I turned down the raise and finished tech school with an associates in electronics that I got for 15K and have ridden to a six figure job....I could not have done it without that child care assistance and it was wonky about how I would qualify or not or remain eligible. ....and at the same time...the government agencies that are supposed to be in place to enforce child support wich would have been enough to outright pay for the daycare instead of having to get a governemnt hand out....also weren't set up to assist someone like me.

    This is why I am in favor of UBI. I have no faith in legislators and beaureaucrats to administer "help" efficiently.

    And so this, along with Yang and his problem/solution approach as opposed to others blame and penilize....and I'd vote D for the first time in my life for president if he were the nominee.
    Don't get your hopes up. American's are stupid. Instead of voting for intelligent optimistic problem solvers, they tend to like angry bitter immature morons who want nothing more than to get richer and be the center of attention.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Zerovoltz
      Yang, is the only D who completely stays away from the identity politics and blame assignment that the D's enthusiastically embrace.



      And what you call "blame assignment" most people with functioning moral compasses call "accountability for one's actions."

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      • #4

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
          Yang, is the only D who completely stays away from the identity politics and blame assignment that the D's enthusiastically embrace. He seems like a guy who actually wants to focus on and solve problems and is willing to work to do that instead of blaming X Y or Z for the problem and then trying to solve it by using the power of the state to blame and penilze, X, Y and Z.

          Yeah, he seems like a nice guy who's pleasant to listen to. Until you actually look into the things he's proposing.

          Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
          Alot of people are put off by UBI. On it's surface, as a mostly libertarian leaning person, I can't say I'm thrilled with it....but I am all for it when you package it as a potential alternative to the 1 bazillion social programs we have now that have all sorts of people you have to pay to administer those, the guidlines are odd or can be exploited....some people who actually need the help can't get it..but others gaming the system do...I think if you just cut all that out and write everyone a check..then fine. Then no one is gaming anything, you don't have a ton of beureaucrats trying to decide if you do or don't qualify and who you are paying to administer said programs. You get your check and shut up.
          On the surface it looks like a good idea. I don't have a link, but I actually signed up for his little UBI giveaway email campaign, just to troll, and his proposal, last I heard, is $1,000.00 per month per person. Or, adults. That will literally cost us 2.5 trillion dollars per year. Where will that money come from? And you're talking about replacing current entitlements with UBI? I looked up entitlement spending, we're at about 900 Billion per year right now. Where do you get that money? Taxing the rich? That's finite, and will run out. Plus it's a great way to run the rich right on out of this country. So where do you get the money once you've taken from the rich and the big businesses? You're going to have to inflate the currency, causing hyper inflation and all of a sudden, that 1K a month doesn't seem like much anymore. It sounds nice, but the math doesn't add up man.

          Now you kind of propose the impossible when you say you want to replace bs social programs with UBI. You cannot propose to take away social programs and replace them with anything, or you will get expelled from your own party, let alone have no hope of winning another election ever again.

          Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
          This appeals to me personlly. Back in 2000, my first wife had left me, and our three kids. I had full custody of a 1, 3, and 5 year old children. No education beyond GED, no money, no prospects...and wasn't getting any child support from her. I ended up having to move in with my mom. I decided I would need to go to college and get a skill and get a good enough job to support me and my kids. I enrolled in school full time, and got a part time job making 8 dollars and hour working about 26-30 hours per week. I applied for child care assistance. I was approved for it, but the social worker kind of had me answer a couple of questions that they sort of prodded me to answer a certain way to qualify. Later on, my boss offered me a 25 cent per hour raise. I had to turn this raise down as it would have caused me to lose the child care benefit. That comes out to 7 dollars and 50 cents more per week on a 30 hour week...and I would lose the entire benefit. At the same time this was happening, I was trying to collect support from my ex wife. EVERY TIME I ever went to county to enforce that, the women there would always...ALWAYS assume I was there to make a payment or catch up on my payments...and would be surprised when I was there to collect.....they would hand me a form...and the first question on the damn form is "Do you know who the father of your child(ren) is? anyhow...I never got her to pay, I turned down the raise and finished tech school with an associates in electronics that I got for 15K and have ridden to a six figure job....I could not have done it without that child care assistance and it was wonky about how I would qualify or not or remain eligible. ....and at the same time...the government agencies that are supposed to be in place to enforce child support wich would have been enough to outright pay for the daycare instead of having to get a governemnt hand out....also weren't set up to assist someone like me.
          Very sympathetic to your story, and am glad you were able to scratch your way out of that hole and make a good living for yourself and your family. But I'll level with you here. What you are describing in the family court system is a system that doesn't give a damn about you, because there are not enough of you to give a damn about. I mean, you can tell your story a thousand times to a thousand people and what you'll get is people saying "ah, that sucks man" while continuing to vote for the same politicians that will preserve and protect the current ****ed up gynocentric system that remains in place. And it's just going to get worse, whether you vote for (R) or (D). Or you'll get some snarky response like "Now you see what women go through" when that's all bull****. Because if your BM were treated like a dude, she'd be in debtors jail so fast it'd make your damn head spin. Fact is though that nobody cares about the system that screwed you out of CS until it affects them. Then they'll care. So **** people.


          Originally posted by Zerovoltz View Post
          This is why I am in favor of UBI. I have no faith in legislators and beaureaucrats to administer "help" efficiently. And so this, along with Yang and his problem/solution approach as opposed to others blame and penilize....and I'd vote D for the first time in my life for president if he were the nominee.
          Here's an idea. What if, if you need help, and assistance to survive, you can get it. But, you relinquish your voting rights until the assistance you get is paid back to the government? Then being a responsible net taxpayer is encouraged. Taking assistance is discouraged and looked down upon. Those that give more than they take are rewarded with a little bit of political power that those that take more than they give don't get. The cost of welfare goes down, taxes can actually be lowered, we have politicians that are elected by responsible taxpayers so you (hopefully) get better, more responsible politicians where every campaign doesn't seem like a damn contest to see who can give more away? Just an idea man. An idea that would never win politically, at least not until we have an economic collapse. But i like mine better. But your boy Yang has a very big problem with math.
          Last edited by spdirty; 11-21-2019, 09:18 AM.

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