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  • #46
    Originally posted by Garcia Bronco View Post

    You need to watch the full testimony and not get it from an article. It was really good if you didn't see it. What Jeffery said was that he was not on the phone call. However, this subject has been under discussion for the prior 18 months and that he and others advised the President and Turkey through the State department. Either way, had the 200 or so troops and CIA operatives still been there...they would have been trapped. If they got killed, then the US has to go to war with Turkey. There is nothing else we can do IMO (which means **** all) other than leave. We started the mess and we didn't get the job done. The Democrats of the FA committee said those 200 people were keeping Turkey from acting but Jeffery did not agree.
    No offense, but this is the ultimate in chicken **** foreign policy. Any nation state willing to take on US forces directly anywhere need to be brought to heel.

    If Turkey believed we had this resolve, our forces would be secure. It's only the mind-numbing cowardice or I guess ignorance in leadership that made this kind of Turkish bluff possible. Folding with the world's strongest hand will only ensure more of the same in the future.

    Chamberlainism at its finest. Never thought I'd see the day from "Republican" (scare quotes intended) leadership.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post

      No offense, but this is the ultimate in chicken **** foreign policy. Any nation state willing to take on US forces directly anywhere need to be brought to heel.

      If Turkey believed we had this resolve, our forces would be secure. It's only the mind-numbing cowardice or I guess ignorance in leadership that made this kind of Turkish bluff possible. Folding with the world's strongest hand will only ensure more of the same in the future.

      Chamberlainism at its finest. Never thought I'd see the day from "Republican" (scare quotes intended) leadership.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Garcia Bronco View Post

        You need to watch the full testimony and not get it from an article. It was really good if you didn't see it. What Jeffery said was that he was not on the phone call. However, this subject has been under discussion for the prior 18 months and that he and others advised the President and Turkey through the State department. Either way, had the 200 or so troops and CIA operatives still been there...they would have been trapped. If they got killed, then the US has to go to war with Turkey. There is nothing else we can do IMO (which means **** all) other than leave. We started the mess and we didn't get the job done. The Democrats of the FA committee said those 200 people were keeping Turkey from acting but Jeffery did not agree.
        18 months is plenty of time to bolster our position and warn off the Turks, while getting the rest of NATO onboard and jointly pressuring Erdogan. Instead, Trump went on the appeasement path and caved in to Erdogan. Any foreign policy that gives Putin, Assad and Erdogan what they wanted, while deserting our allies is worse than pathetic. We spent years investigating Benghazi, now let's give this unconscionable act of betrayal and incompetence a close inspection. It was a rushed retreat no matter how it's sugar coated. But at least we are guarding Syria's oil and keeping it safe.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

          18 months is plenty of time to bolster our position and warn off the Turks, while getting the rest of NATO onboard and jointly pressuring Erdogan. Instead, Trump went on the appeasement path and caved in to Erdogan. Any foreign policy that gives Putin, Assad and Erdogan what they wanted, while deserting our allies is worse than pathetic. We spent years investigating Benghazi, now let's give this unconscionable act of betrayal and incompetence a close inspection. It was a rushed retreat no matter how it's sugar coated. But at least we are guarding Syria's oil and keeping it safe.
          Jeffery addressed that too. It was not the scope of the mission. The scope of the mission was to combat ISIS. That is what Congress agreed to. Not combat Turkey. I get your point, but we can't be there anymore.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post

            No offense, but this is the ultimate in chicken **** foreign policy. Any nation state willing to take on US forces directly anywhere need to be brought to heel.

            If Turkey believed we had this resolve, our forces would be secure. It's only the mind-numbing cowardice or I guess ignorance in leadership that made this kind of Turkish bluff possible. Folding with the world's strongest hand will only ensure more of the same in the future.

            Chamberlainism at its finest. Never thought I'd see the day from "Republican" (scare quotes intended) leadership.
            I understand your perspective. It's a matter of cost. What are you willing to pay? What is the US willing to pay? You also have to acknowledge that the US started the problem in the first place. We created and armed ISIS to begin with or otherwise we would not have been there.

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            • #51
              I would pay at least a border wall. Since it’s a matter of cost how much is your life worth Garcia?

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Garcia Bronco View Post

                I understand your perspective. It's a matter of cost. What are you willing to pay? What is the US willing to pay? You also have to acknowledge that the US started the problem in the first place. We created and armed ISIS to begin with or otherwise we would not have been there.
                “You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour and you will have war.”

                Mostly that simple.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by W*GS View Post
                  "Foreign Policy Journal" is run by one lunatic dude.

                  Of course.
                  We can say his name. The "lunatic" who edits Foreign Policy Journal is Jeremy Hammond, peace activist and author.

                  For the record, Noam Chomsky was effusive in his praise for Hammond's 2016 book about the failure of Mideast peace initiatives. (see the cover below) But of course W*gs could care less about the real systemic problems that peacemakers face in our world. Real problems such as Israel's vice grip on US Mideast policy. Don't take my word for it. Read Hammond's book

                  Here is one of the five star reviews posted at Amazon....

                  This articulate volume shows in well-documented detail how the US has colluded with Israel in blocking peace with the Palestinians. The unanswered question is why? Now we need a volume two that covers the 2014 Gaza war to the present. Hammond is a resourceful journalist who uncovers important facts previously undisclosed by a biased mainstream media.




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                  • #54
                    I for one am proud to have an editor as fine as Hammond, lunatic or not.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by mhgaffney View Post
                      I for one am proud to have an editor as fine as Hammond, lunatic or not.
                      If he's going to edit your crap, being a lunatic is a necessary qualification.
                      Click image for larger version  Name:	giphy.gif Views:	1 Size:	398.6 KB ID:	2512582

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post

                        No offense, but this is the ultimate in chicken **** foreign policy. Any nation state willing to take on US forces directly anywhere need to be brought to heel.

                        If Turkey believed we had this resolve, our forces would be secure. It's only the mind-numbing cowardice or I guess ignorance in leadership that made this kind of Turkish bluff possible. Folding with the world's strongest hand will only ensure more of the same in the future.

                        Chamberlainism at its finest. Never thought I'd see the day from "Republican" (scare quotes intended) leadership.
                        Obama sent our troops into Syria on a failed mission. It had zero chance to succeed -- and so was doomed from the start. Trump made the right call to get them out of there.

                        Comparing Trump to Chamberlain is hilarious. So, if Trump is Chamberlain, who is Hitler?

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                        • #57
                          Tulsi Gabbard 2020 = Jill Stein 2016. No realistic chance of winning, but could possibly have an effect on the outcome of the election regardless, if running as a third-party candidate intended to split the vote. Given Gabbard's popularity with Republicans (not so much with Democrats) this ploy could backfire on Putin.

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                          • #58
                            Great. Now literally anyone who doesn't drink the kool aid is a Russian asset. Even a long-time Democratic former service member who was elected in Hawaii.

                            I guess McCarthy references before might've been a little hyperbolic. Now they're being 100% earned.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Blueflame View Post
                              ... Given Gabbard's popularity with Republicans (not so much with Democrats) this ploy could backfire...

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                              • #60

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