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  • #31
    Originally posted by STBumpkin View Post

    This is just too much idiocy not to respond:

    Nobody has promised a Kurdish state. If anything, there is some support for Kurdish autonomous governing of some regions (NW Iraq around Irbil, Rojavayê in N Syria) which have seemed to work.

    "The reason Turkey attached Syria is because US support for the Kurds here had destrabilized the region." That portion of Syria WAS one of the stable parts before the US withdrawl; there's a civil war there! This sentence illustrates your infantile understanding of it. Turkey attacked because they fear any headway the Kurds make towards political autonomy, especially when it's working. Most importantly, Turkey attacked because the US withdrew; they would not have done so otherwise, which leads me to...

    "If Trump had not withdrawn...the Turks and US would have had to fight." No, no, no. There is no way that Turkey would ever attack the US in this scenario (or any other for that matter). It might be the justification that you've bought hook, line, and sinker from your Russian propaganda sources, but it doesn't have any basis in reality.

    Again, you're a charlatan Gaffy. Go away.
    Yeah, I'll pimp the last Remnant podcast on this again, which gave some great background.

    Part of the volatility of the situation is that the Kurds extended significantly from their traditional boundaries in order to help us against Isis. Now we're essentially leaving them high and dry in that position they only took with us against ISIS. Nobody thought it was permanent, but I don't think they were prepared for us cutting out before an inevitable retreat was negotiated (instead of forced on them)

    With a really minor footprint, we could have helped them negotiate from strength, since nobody's willing to take on our forces directly. Instead we're forcing them into a desperate retreat, with catastrophic human costs along the way. All because they trusted us to have their backs after they had ours (against ISIS)

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    • #32
      Originally posted by STBumpkin View Post
      This is just too much idiocy not to respond:
      [...]
      Again, you're a charlatan Gaffy. Go away.
      der gaffo's ideas on geopolitics would get him pulverized playing RISK, much less the real world.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by STBumpkin View Post

        This is just too much idiocy not to respond:

        Nobody has promised a Kurdish state. If anything, there is some support for Kurdish autonomous governing of some regions (NW Iraq around Irbil, Rojavayê in N Syria) which have seemed to work.

        "The reason Turkey attached Syria is because US support for the Kurds here had destrabilized the region." That portion of Syria WAS one of the stable parts before the US withdrawl; there's a civil war there! This sentence illustrates your infantile understanding of it. Turkey attacked because they fear any headway the Kurds make towards political autonomy, especially when it's working. Most importantly, Turkey attacked because the US withdrew; they would not have done so otherwise, which leads me to...

        "If Trump had not withdrawn...the Turks and US would have had to fight." No, no, no. There is no way that Turkey would ever attack the US in this scenario (or any other for that matter). It might be the justification that you've bought hook, line, and sinker from your Russian propaganda sources, but it doesn't have any basis in reality.

        Again, you're a charlatan Gaffy. Go away.
        Bumpkin, no surprise you have a country bumpkin's perspective on the world. Tulsi exposed the WE ARE THERE TO FIGHT ISIS meme for what it is...a lie. A bloody lie. No, we were (and are still) there to effect regime change...Meanwhile, we will do everything we can to disrupt and destroy Syria's economy, for example, by denying them access to their own oil.

        Hey Bumpkin, get your imperial stormtroopers out of someone else country. Yankee go home.

        That's what the A-rabs are telling us. When will you listen?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post

          Yeah, I'll pimp the last Remnant podcast on this again, which gave some great background.

          Part of the volatility of the situation is that the Kurds extended significantly from their traditional boundaries in order to help us against Isis. Now we're essentially leaving them high and dry in that position they only took with us against ISIS. Nobody thought it was permanent, but I don't think they were prepared for us cutting out before an inevitable retreat was negotiated (instead of forced on them)

          With a really minor footprint, we could have helped them negotiate from strength, since nobody's willing to take on our forces directly. Instead we're forcing them into a desperate retreat, with catastrophic human costs along the way. All because they trusted us to have their backs after they had ours (against ISIS)
          Correct. The Kurdish areas of NE Syria are small. Which always made the viability of a Kurdish state there nil.

          Comment


          • #35
            As I predicted, hours ago Turkish pres Erdogan and Russian pres Putin agreed to a cease fire in Syria...

            https://youtu.be/FjKa615a_4E

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by mhgaffney View Post

              Bumpkin, no surprise you have a country bumpkin's perspective on the world. Tulsi exposed the WE ARE THERE TO FIGHT ISIS meme for what it is...a lie. A bloody lie. No, we were (and are still) there to effect regime change...Meanwhile, we will do everything we can to disrupt and destroy Syria's economy, for example, by denying them access to their own oil.

              Hey Bumpkin, get your imperial stormtroopers out of someone else country. Yankee go home.

              That's what the A-rabs are telling us. When will you listen?
              I think what you mean is Yankee go home so Boris and Ivan can take his place. All you've ever wanted was to see the United States eclipsed by the third rate power Russia wherever, whenever, and however.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by STBumpkin View Post

                I think what you mean is Yankee go home so Boris and Ivan can take his place. All you've ever wanted was to see the United States eclipsed by the third rate power Russia wherever, whenever, and however.
                no, more b.s. I simply am not contaminated with Russia derangement syndrome. This is a dis-ease created by propaganda ....which has been ongoing 24 X 7 in the western media....since at least 2010. Even before.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by STBumpkin View Post

                  I think what you mean is Yankee go home so Boris and Ivan can take his place. All you've ever wanted was to see the United States eclipsed by the third rate power Russia wherever, whenever, and however.
                  You should be forced to listen to yourself. The Russians are ALREADY inside Syria. They were invited in to fight the US backed Al Qaeda groups.

                  You also lack perspective. I have been tracking this issue since the publication of my first book in 1989 -- which was a study of the Israeli nuclear weapons program.

                  I learned a lot about the region doing the background research for that book. It was already obvious in the late 1980s that US policy in the Mideast was a disaster. Nothing has changed, it's only gotten worse. Things got exponentially worse after the September 11, 2001 attacks. And we have gone down from there.

                  It now appears that the US will have no other option but to vacate the region. We are universally despised. I did not do this. The Russians did not do this. Our crazy leaders have done it -- in large part due to our obsequious and servile relationship with Israel. Russia has nothing to do with it.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I love how everything in your tin foil world starts with some event or wrongdoing by Israel or US. That’s your starting point for everything.

                    so much fail

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

                      Turkey would not have invaded with US troops on the ground. We abandoned the Kurds to be slaughtered by Turks, after promising to shield them if they dismantled their defenses so Trump could appease Erdogan.

                      You're nothing more than a pathetic 'quisling.'

                      You have a lot in common with the coward, Trump, other than blowing Putin on a regular basis. Get off your knees and grow a pair of your own.
                      James Jeffery just said that you're wrong on CSPAN. The Turks would have just gone around the US forces and displaced the Kurds.
                      Last edited by Garcia Bronco; 10-23-2019, 08:54 PM.

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                      • #41
                        There was never going to be a Kurdish state in NE Syria. Obama knew this when he sent in US troops. We don't know what sort of deal Obama made with the Kurds - but if he promised them a state he lied through his teeth. The US used the Kurds like pawns -- as so many have used them before.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by mhgaffney View Post
                          There was never going to be a Kurdish state in NE Syria. Obama knew this when he sent in US troops. We don't know what sort of deal Obama made with the Kurds - but if he promised them a state he lied through his teeth. The US used the Kurds like pawns -- as so many have used them before.
                          Nor were our troops there to defend the Kurds from the Turkish. That was not their mission. the numbers put there by the United States would not be able to do that. The Turks were coming.

                          ​​​

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Garcia Bronco View Post

                            James Jeffery just said that you're wrong on CSPAN. The Turks would have just gone around the US forces and displaced the Kurds.
                            I wondered about Jeffrery's comments. Is that what he knew, or was it what he was told? Trump certainly appeased Erdogan by insisting the Kurds dismantle their defenses facing Turkey. So basically, Trump knew the invasion was coming well in advance and couldn't negotiate any kind of scenario where the Kurds weren't going to be slaughtered and ISIS prisoners escape? The great negotiator....the bestest deal maker ever couldn't come up with a deal? No details of the offers made to Erdogan?

                            Putin made a deal without any difficulty.

                            More US troops being sent to the oilfields to protect those assets, but nothing for the allies that did the heavy lifting against ISIS.

                            Jeffrey acknowledged he was "not personally consulted" before Trump announced his decision to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria. Lawmakers said that demonstrated the "chaotic and ad hoc" nature of Trump's policy in the region.

                            Jeffrey pushed back, saying Trump warned Erdogan not to invade Syria and did not give him a green light to attack the Kurds. He said American forces in Syria were never given a mission to defend the Kurds against an attack from Turkey, which is a NATO ally.

                            He said Erdogan's decision came despite "warning after warning" and "incentive after incentive" from the Trump administration to stave off such a move.
                            Last edited by DenverBrit; 10-24-2019, 11:12 AM.

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                            • #44
                              As long as Erdogan promises to stay at a Cheetolini-branded property, POSTUS* will let him do whatever he wants.

                              POSTUS* is like the really ugly girl who puts out just to be popular, no matter the debasement and cost to their self-esteem. He craves Fred's approval that he gets rolled all the ****ing time.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

                                I wondered about Jeffrery's comments. Is that what he knew, or was it what he was told? Trump certainly appeased Erdogan by insisting the Kurds dismantle their defenses facing Turkey. So basically, Trump knew the invasion was coming well in advance and couldn't negotiate any kind of scenario where the Kurds weren't going to be slaughtered and ISIS prisoners escape? The great negotiator....the bestest deal maker ever couldn't come up with a deal? No details of the offers made to Erdogan?

                                Putin made a deal without any difficulty.

                                More US troops being sent to the oilfields to protect those assets, but nothing for the allies that did the heavy lifting against ISIS.

                                Jeffrey acknowledged he was "not personally consulted" before Trump announced his decision to withdraw U.S. forces from Syria. Lawmakers said that demonstrated the "chaotic and ad hoc" nature of Trump's policy in the region.

                                Jeffrey pushed back, saying Trump warned Erdogan not to invade Syria and did not give him a green light to attack the Kurds. He said American forces in Syria were never given a mission to defend the Kurds against an attack from Turkey, which is a NATO ally.

                                He said Erdogan's decision came despite "warning after warning" and "incentive after incentive" from the Trump administration to stave off such a move.
                                You need to watch the full testimony and not get it from an article. It was really good if you didn't see it. What Jeffery said was that he was not on the phone call. However, this subject has been under discussion for the prior 18 months and that he and others advised the President and Turkey through the State department. Either way, had the 200 or so troops and CIA operatives still been there...they would have been trapped. If they got killed, then the US has to go to war with Turkey. There is nothing else we can do IMO (which means **** all) other than leave. We started the mess and we didn't get the job done. The Democrats of the FA committee said those 200 people were keeping Turkey from acting but Jeffery did not agree.

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