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  • #16
    Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

    Good luck convincing anyone to trust the US in the future.
    They already had years of warnings. This isn't a 'fool me once' or even 'fool me twice' scenario. Our 'trust' is long gone. Especially in that region.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

      Right. So we desert our allies and leave them to the mercy of Turkey, Assad and Putin. Good luck convincing anyone to trust the US in the future.

      The irony is, despite Trump's cowardice, pro Putin leg humping and lies about NATO, it was our NATO allies who, for the first time, invoked article 5 and came to the aid of the US after 911. Trump was too busy watching the thousands of Muslims dancing in the streets and rescuing survivors in the rubble to comprehend the significance.

      Be a trusted ally, not a sniveling toady like Trump. His weakness, weakens us all.

      So save your Putin=peace nonsense and get out in the world you claim to know so well, yet are too afraid to see 1st hand.

      Go to the Ukraine and tell them how Russia is their friend and their country really belong to Putin, the agent of peace.

      Should be the last we hear from you. So do it!
      Allies? You mean the Kurds. Understand this. There was never going to be a Kurdish state in NE Syria. If Obama promised them that, he lied. Obama knew when he cut the deal with the Kurds that he would never be able to deliver a Kurdish state.

      As I indicated, the nations in the Mideast will not allow a Kurdish state -- because all would view it as a security threat. The Kurdish people are a scattered people. They live in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. The reason nTurkey attacked Syria is because US support for the Kurds there had destabilized the region.

      If Trump had not withdrawn the US force, the Turks and US would have had to fight. That would be a fight with our own NATO ally, Turkey. Think about that -- it would have been a cluster f***. The US has deployed nukes at our Incerlik air base inside Turkey. Think about that as well. There was the potential for Turkey to attempt to seize US nuclear weapons. Trump had no choice --- thanks to Obama lying to the Kurds -- but pull back.

      Are you completely brain dead? You should have ben able to figure all of this out on your own. Turn off the tv! Junk the idiot box! US news (propaganda)_ is confusing you ...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post

        They already had years of warnings. This isn't a 'fool me once' or even 'fool me twice' scenario. Our 'trust' is long gone. Especially in that region.
        Warnings are one thing, betrayal of the Kurds was unconscionable and won't be forgotten by anyone.
        Last edited by DenverBrit; 10-21-2019, 11:24 AM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Brit is too stupid to understand the Mideast. He thinks in cliches. Nor can he wrap his pea brain around the ugly prospect of the US at war with our own NATO ally Turkey.

          The onus here is on Obama for lying to the Kurds in the first place.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mhgaffney View Post

            Allies? You mean the Kurds. Understand this. There was never going to be a Kurdish state in NE Syria. If Obama promised them that, he lied. Obama knew when he cut the deal with the Kurds that he would never be able to deliver a Kurdish state.

            As I indicated, the nations in the Mideast will not allow a Kurdish state -- because all would view it as a security threat. The Kurdish people are a scattered people. They live in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. The reason nTurkey attacked Syria is because US support for the Kurds there had destabilized the region.

            If Trump had not withdrawn the US force, the Turks and US would have had to fight. That would be a fight with our own NATO ally, Turkey. Think about that -- it would have been a cluster f***. The US has deployed nukes at our Incerlik air base inside Turkey. Think about that as well. There was the potential for Turkey to attempt to seize US nuclear weapons. Trump had no choice --- thanks to Obama lying to the Kurds -- but pull back.

            Are you completely brain dead? You should have ben able to figure all of this out on your own. Turn off the tv! Junk the idiot box! US news (propaganda)_ is confusing you ...
            Turkey would not have invaded with US troops on the ground. We abandoned the Kurds to be slaughtered by Turks, after promising to shield them if they dismantled their defenses so Trump could appease Erdogan.

            You're nothing more than a pathetic 'quisling.'

            You have a lot in common with the coward, Trump, other than blowing Putin on a regular basis. Get off your knees and grow a pair of your own.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by mhgaffney View Post
              Brit is too stupid to understand the Mideast. He thinks in cliches. Nor can he wrap his pea brain around the ugly prospect of the US at war with our own NATO ally Turkey.

              The onus here is on Obama for lying to the Kurds in the first place.
              Want to trade stories about the region? When were you there? Didn't think so. Piss off!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

                Warnings are one thing, betrayal of the Kurds was unconscionable and won't be forgotten by anyone.
                You sound just like me 8 years ago.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

                  Turkey would not have invaded with US troops on the ground. We abandoned the Kurds to be slaughtered by Turks, after promising to shield them if they dismantled their defenses so Trump could appease Erdogan.

                  You're nothing more than a pathetic 'quisling.'

                  You have a lot in common with the coward, Trump, other than blowing Putin on a regular basis. Get off your knees and grow a pair of your own.
                  The Turks had a much superior force. They were going in to deal with what they view as a national security threat on their border -- an autonomous Kurdish entity. National security would have trumped the deterrence of a handful of US boots on the ground.

                  Trump had no alternative but to pull back, In fact, knowledgeable people predicted the US withdrawal many months in advance. The US had no other move on the chessboard but to withdraw. This is on Obama -- not Trump.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The failure here is with the US regime change policy. The Kurds were merely US pawns in this bigger game. The US could care less about the Kurds. They were merely a convenient ally.

                    The US media portrayed the US presence in glorious terms. We were fighting terrorism -- exactly the opposite of the truth. We were saving the Kurds. We were promoting democracy in Syria.

                    All lies. If the US had succeeded in overthrowing Assad, the country would have descended into chaos like Libya.

                    This is why the Russians came in. They watched the US disaster unfold in Libya and drew a line in the sand. Not again! And not in our neighborhood! The Russians were invited in -- their intervention was the opposite of ours because it was based on the principle of respecting the territorial integrity of all the nations in the region. This is why Putin is now the peace broker and why the US does not even have a seat at the table. The US era in the region is over.
                    Last edited by mhgaffney; 10-21-2019, 01:54 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by mhgaffney View Post

                      The Turks had a much superior force. They were going in to deal with what they view as a national security threat on their border -- an autonomous Kurdish entity. National security would have trumped the deterrence of a handful of US boots on the ground.

                      Trump had no alternative but to pull back, In fact, knowledgeable people predicted the US withdrawal many months in advance. The US had no other move on the chessboard but to withdraw. This is on Obama -- not Trump.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post

                        You sound just like me 8 years ago.
                        Somehow, I doubt that. There's no disputing this betrayal.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Turkey is also a US ally. A NATO ally -- and a much more important ally than the Kurds.

                          This disgrace is on Obama - -and exposes the failure of US Mideast policy going back all the way to 9/11 -- and before.

                          Foreign Policy Journal has just posted my article.
                          By Calling Out Democrats, Tulsi Gabbard Has Altered the Political Landscape

                          By Mark H. Gaffney | Oct 21, 2019 | Middle East, Politics, US, Viewpoints


                          https://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...cal-landscape/

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            "Foreign Policy Journal" is run by one lunatic dude.

                            Of course.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post

                              Somehow, I doubt that. There's no disputing this betrayal.
                              The Kurds who died in and around Mosul after the 2011 cut and run don't have much left to dispute either.

                              McCain said it would happen, and it did.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by mhgaffney View Post

                                Allies? You mean the Kurds. Understand this. There was never going to be a Kurdish state in NE Syria. If Obama promised them that, he lied. Obama knew when he cut the deal with the Kurds that he would never be able to deliver a Kurdish state.

                                As I indicated, the nations in the Mideast will not allow a Kurdish state -- because all would view it as a security threat. The Kurdish people are a scattered people. They live in Iraq, Iran, Syria and Turkey. The reason nTurkey attacked Syria is because US support for the Kurds there had destabilized the region.

                                If Trump had not withdrawn the US force, the Turks and US would have had to fight. That would be a fight with our own NATO ally, Turkey. Think about that -- it would have been a cluster f***. The US has deployed nukes at our Incerlik air base inside Turkey. Think about that as well. There was the potential for Turkey to attempt to seize US nuclear weapons. Trump had no choice --- thanks to Obama lying to the Kurds -- but pull back.

                                Are you completely brain dead? You should have ben able to figure all of this out on your own. Turn off the tv! Junk the idiot box! US news (propaganda)_ is confusing you ...
                                This is just too much idiocy not to respond:

                                Nobody has promised a Kurdish state. If anything, there is some support for Kurdish autonomous governing of some regions (NW Iraq around Irbil, Rojavayê in N Syria) which have seemed to work.

                                "The reason Turkey attached Syria is because US support for the Kurds here had destrabilized the region." That portion of Syria WAS one of the stable parts before the US withdrawl; there's a civil war there! This sentence illustrates your infantile understanding of it. Turkey attacked because they fear any headway the Kurds make towards political autonomy, especially when it's working. Most importantly, Turkey attacked because the US withdrew; they would not have done so otherwise, which leads me to...

                                "If Trump had not withdrawn...the Turks and US would have had to fight." No, no, no. There is no way that Turkey would ever attack the US in this scenario (or any other for that matter). It might be the justification that you've bought hook, line, and sinker from your Russian propaganda sources, but it doesn't have any basis in reality.

                                Again, you're a charlatan Gaffy. Go away.

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