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  • FIXING OBAMACARE

    This just in: Pres. Obama to allow canceled insurance plans to be renewed for one year.

    Should be interesting to see how health coverage in America will\may evolve over time now. What will it look like in 2years? 5 years? 10 years? 25 years?

  • #2
    Everybody here knows my own ideas on that. I just think universal, single payer is inevitable. I don't even bother with the political argument over it anymore. I think it's just inescapably practical. Eventually, we will have no other option. I guess some people thought the ACA was some kind of sneaky stepping stone to that, but I never agreed with that take. I think the ACA was a last ditch effort by the insurance companies to avoid it. After all, ACA delivers everybody to the doorstep of the insurance companies. How anybody can think that's a stepping stone to single payer is beyond me, except maybe by the circuitous route that it will fail and then single payer will be inevitable. Me? I think it's inevitable either way. People on the single payer side of the equation are just waiting for common sense to lead everybody else to that same conclusion.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
      Everybody here knows my own ideas on that. I just think universal, single payer is inevitable. I don't even bother with the political argument over it anymore. I think it's just inescapably practical. Eventually, we will have no other option. I guess some people thought the ACA was some kind of sneaky stepping stone to that, but I never agreed with that take. I think the ACA was a last ditch effort by the insurance companies to avoid it. After all, ACA delivers everybody to the doorstep of the insurance companies. How anybody can think that's a stepping stone to single payer is beyond me, except maybe by the circuitous route that it will fail and then single payer will be inevitable. Me? I think it's inevitable either way. People on the single payer side of the equation are just waiting for common sense to lead everybody else to that same conclusion.
      Refreshing to see a real true believer. Roh watchin' this whole thing unfold. Still dreamin' of the day he can create that account on ProctologyAppointment.GOV

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      • #4
        Ro the Swiss have had a system just like the PPACA in place for the last 20 years and Massachusetts for the last 10. The PPACA will work too if given a chance. If the republicans manage to burn it to the ground then we can look forward to going back to spiraling premiums, denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, cancellations when we get sick, etc.

        Anybody here who thinks the republican party gives a rat's ass about HC reform is living in dreamland. They just want to deny the dems a political victory, drag us back to the mess we had before, and go back to ignoring the problem.
        Last edited by Fear the Hawk; 11-14-2013, 01:52 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
          Refreshing to see a real true believer. Roh watchin' this whole thing unfold. Still dreamin' of the day he can create that account on ProctologyAppointment.GOV
          Fun facts to know and share:
          http://sickothemovie.com/checkup/

          One example:
          "The U. S. health system spends a higher portion of its gross domestic product than any other country but ranks 37 out of 191 countries according to its performance, the report finds." "World Health Organization Assesses The World's Health Systems," Press Release, WHO/44, June 21, 2000.

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          • #6
            Repeal

            That is how you fix it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
              Ro the Swiss have had a system just like the PPACA in place for the last 20 years and Massachusetts for the last 10. The PPACA will work too if given a chance. If the republicans manage to burn it to the ground then we can look forward to going back to spiraling premiums, denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, cancellations when we get sick, etc.

              Anybody here who thinks the republican party gives a rat's ass about HC reform is living in dreamland. They just want to deny the dems a political victory, drag us back to the mess we had before, and go back to ignoring the problem.
              I suppose then you get into the ethical debate. I think, in a modern industrial society, health care should be a right. What's the best way to do it? Everybody agrees that you need to spread the risk as broadly as possible. In ACA, the mandate is supposed to accomplish that. So, if you're going to accept that premise, why have two payers? You pay to the insurance company, who takes some profit, then you pay the provider, who also takes some profit? Why?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
                I suppose then you get into the ethical debate. I think, in a modern industrial society, health care should be a right. What's the best way to do it? Everybody agrees that you need to spread the risk as broadly as possible. In ACA, the mandate is supposed to accomplish that. So, if you're going to accept that premise, why have two payers? You pay to the insurance company, who takes some profit, then you pay the provider, who also takes some profit? Why?
                And under a single-payer system you pay government bureaucrats instead. And you can't take your money anywhere else so they have no incentive to provide quality service.

                All the PPACA does is privatize the function of paying out from a pool of the insured to those who need it. And because it's being done by companies who are concerned about keeping customers they will look for ways to provide the best service at the lowest cost. I'd rather have that than a government bureaucracy controlling payments, as long as the insurance companies are properly regulated to prevent them from screwing their customers, which they are under the PPACA.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
                  Ro the Swiss have had a system just like the PPACA in place for the last 20 years and Massachusetts for the last 10. The PPACA will work too if given a chance. If the republicans manage to burn it to the ground then we can look forward to going back to spiraling premiums, denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions, cancellations when we get sick, etc.

                  Anybody here who thinks the republican party gives a rat's ass about HC reform is living in dreamland. They just want to deny the dems a political victory, drag us back to the mess we had before, and go back to ignoring the problem.
                  There's virtually no employer-provided insurance in the Swiss model. The PPACA encourages it (or often mandates it). To say it moves us to the Swiss model when it maintains our biggest distinction from the Swiss model is pure wishful thinking.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
                    There's virtually no employer-provided insurance in the Swiss model. The PPACA encourages it (or often mandates it). To say it moves us to the Swiss model when it maintains our biggest distinction from the Swiss model is pure wishful thinking.
                    Didn't say they are exactly the same. But they are similar enough to suggest that the PPACA will work if properly implemented.

                    I offer no guarantees. All I'm saying is give it a chance.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Lone Bolt View Post
                      Didn't say they are exactly the same. But they are similar enough to suggest that the PPACA will work if properly implemented.

                      I offer no guarantees. All I'm saying is give it a chance.
                      Again, there's no logic behind thinking it will work, because it does nothing to address the American system's real flaw.

                      Too many consumers are removed from the real cost of their healthcare. On one level, because of overinsurance. And that is multiplied by the fact that many (probably most) consumers don't even pay (much) out of pocket for the insurance itself.

                      Americans need to know and care more about what health services and insurance really cost them. The ACA does what most past reforms have done... it tries to further mask the true cost.

                      So it won't work. It can't work.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
                        Again, there's no logic behind thinking it will work, because it does nothing to address the American system's real flaw.

                        Too many consumers are removed from the real cost of their healthcare. On one level, because of overinsurance. And that is multiplied by the fact that many (probably most) consumers don't even pay (much) out of pocket for the insurance itself.

                        Americans need to know and care more about what health services and insurance really cost them. The ACA does what most past reforms have done... it tries to further mask the true cost.

                        So it won't work. It can't work.
                        Real-world evidence says you're wrong. I'll take that over your theories.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by BroncoBeavis View Post
                          Again, there's no logic behind thinking it will work, because it does nothing to address the American system's real flaw.

                          Too many consumers are removed from the real cost of their healthcare. On one level, because of overinsurance. And that is multiplied by the fact that many (probably most) consumers don't even pay (much) out of pocket for the insurance itself.

                          Americans need to know and care more about what health services and insurance really cost them. The ACA does what most past reforms have done... it tries to further mask the true cost.

                          So it won't work. It can't work.
                          Explain why American healthcare costs double that of other industrial democracies and is generally less effective?

                          And what would bring down costs by 50% to bring it into line with those 'unsustainable' healthcare systems?

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                          • #14
                            they can't do this it will blow up the whole system. If they don't cancel those policies those 15 million people don't pay into the system. If they don't get the young people they don't either. All it takes now to completely blow Obamacare out of the water is a delay of the fines for not having insurance.

                            Obama is on the ropes and this is going to kill midterms for the conservative dems.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by DenverBrit View Post
                              Explain why American healthcare costs double that of other industrial democracies and is generally less effective?

                              And what would bring down costs by 50% to bring it into line with those 'unsustainable' healthcare systems?
                              I thought USA had better cure and survival rates for cancer then the EU did?

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