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Obama admin. knew millions could not keep their health insurance

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Pony Boy View Post
    I like this the way you use the term "oversold" to replace the term "lied to". Car salesmen have been doing this for years with great success.
    Yeah but how many of them prefaced it with "Let me be clear"

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Rigs11 View Post
      Question for the cheerleaders. If these plans that people had that do not meet the standards set forth by the ACA weren't they crap plans to begin with? Bobo?
      Yes, they were most likely poor plans that would have been worse had the person holding them got very ill.

      and the individual insurance market was tiny compared to those covered by Medicare, Medicaid or Employer based Group plans. So there are a few stories or people having to bu complaint plans, big deal... even if they cost more, has anyone considered that those same folks might qualigy for a credit towards that policy

      The ACA is here and going nowhere. Conservatves can bluster all they want, it makes for great soundbites and desperate rebel rousing.. in the end, people will buy insurance,the law will be fine, and again the GOP will be on the outside looking in.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by B-Large View Post
        Yes, they were most likely poor plans that would have been worse had the person holding them got very ill.

        and the individual insurance market was tiny compared to those covered by Medicare, Medicaid or Employer based Group plans. So there are a few stories or people having to bu complaint plans, big deal... even if they cost more, has anyone considered that those same folks might qualigy for a credit towards that policy

        The ACA is here and going nowhere. Conservatves can bluster all they want, it makes for great soundbites and desperate rebel rousing.. in the end, people will buy insurance,the law will be fine, and again the GOP will be on the outside looking in.
        The sick will buy insurance. A higher percentage of the healthy will not. And you can write off all the people on Medicare and employer plans if you want. Problem is, those guys don't balance any books for the new exchange pools. They're basically a completely separate market.

        They basically took a market where many people sat out because the price was too high and made the price much higher.

        Good luck with that.

        More healthy will leave. More artificially-underpriced sick will sign up. And around this time next year, health insurers are going to have to balance things up. If you think this fall is ugly, just wait for 2014.

        Comment


        • #64
          Name one thing Obama promised that hasn't been "oversold"

          1-transparency?
          2-unemployment from stimulus?
          3-ACA?
          4-civil liberties?
          5-stopping war?

          What hasn't he oversold?

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by BBII View Post
            Yeah but how many of them prefaced it with "Let me be clear"
            "Let me be clear", the extended warranty will cover absolutely anything that happens to your automobile for life ..... trust me now sign here on the dotted line.

            Comment


            • #66
              http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...le_120518.html


              So how does Paul Ryan suppose the ACA is un-workable (and the reforms are already in place and working), but privatizing Medicare would??

              This is what I don't get about Republicans. They hate Government controlled/ run programs like Medicare, but the Afforadable Care Act IS the beta run for privatizing such a program in the future... IF the ACA is a success, conservatives have the upperhand on the entitlement reform narrative regarding Medicare.

              they continue to fight this Phyrric War, it just doesn't seem logical.

              Comment


              • #67
                Yesterday, the President said in Boston that the millions of people who are getting cancellation letters ending their coverage in the individual health insurance market are being saved from "substandard plans" that were sold to them by "bad apple insurers."

                I guess these would be the same insurers his staff invited to the White House last week. In their statement following that meeting, the White House said they were "committed to working in partnership with the insurers" toward implementation of the Affordable Care Act.

                So, this is how he treats his "partners."

                Are health insurance plans in the individual market substandard?

                Not the overwhelming bulk of them.

                How do I know that?

                Because individual health insurance policies have been regulated for decades by the states. Every policy sold in a state has to be approved by that state's insurance commissioner. Have you heard about the longstanding debate about over whether or not states over regulate this market with too many state health insurance coverage mandates and policy requirements?
                http://healthpolicyandmarket.blogspo...bad-apple.html

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by B-Large View Post
                  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...le_120518.html


                  So how does Paul Ryan suppose the ACA is un-workable (and the reforms are already in place and working), but privatizing Medicare would??

                  This is what I don't get about Republicans. They hate Government controlled/ run programs like Medicare, but the Afforadable Care Act IS the beta run for privatizing such a program in the future... IF the ACA is a success, conservatives have the upperhand on the entitlement reform narrative regarding Medicare.

                  they continue to fight this Phyrric War, it just doesn't seem logical.

                  And yet every politician, dem and repub, has said the ACA is really the first step to single payer, not privatization. Go figure.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by BBII View Post
                    The sick will buy insurance. A higher percentage of the healthy will not. And you can write off all the people on Medicare and employer plans if you want. Problem is, those guys don't balance any books for the new exchange pools. They're basically a completely separate market.

                    They basically took a market where many people sat out because the price was too high and made the price much higher.

                    Good luck with that.

                    More healthy will leave. More artificially-underpriced sick will sign up. And around this time next year, health insurers are going to have to balance things up. If you think this fall is ugly, just wait for 2014.

                    Pure speculation. I am not convinced kids in their mid-twenties feel comfortable to go without heathcare coverage... I know that seems to be the current narrative, but I always had insurance and paid COBRA inbetween jobs... Also, why do we make the asummption that young people are stupid, so stupid they do no value protecting their financial future against medical risk?

                    Are we really a nation that on one side of the isle is hoping people skirt their reponsibility to pay for themselves in case of Medical issues? I thought we were the nation of personal reponsibility? I guess we are when it fits the political narrative?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Smiling Assassin27 View Post
                      And yet every politician, dem and repub, has said the ACA is really the first step to single payer, not privatization. Go figure.
                      Then as a Conservative, why hope it fails?

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by B-Large View Post
                        http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art...le_120518.html


                        So how does Paul Ryan suppose the ACA is un-workable (and the reforms are already in place and working), but privatizing Medicare would??

                        This is what I don't get about Republicans. They hate Government controlled/ run programs like Medicare, but the Afforadable Care Act IS the beta run for privatizing such a program in the future... IF the ACA is a success, conservatives have the upperhand on the entitlement reform narrative regarding Medicare.

                        they continue to fight this Phyrric War, it just doesn't seem logical.
                        You do realize there already was a private healthcare market right? Obamacare didn't invent people buying their own insurance. Our government's decision making and execution only makes it look like a Beta test.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by B-Large View Post
                          Pure speculation. I am not convinced kids in their mid-twenties feel comfortable to go without heathcare coverage... I know that seems to be the current narrative, but I always had insurance and paid COBRA inbetween jobs... Also, why do we make the asummption that young people are stupid, so stupid they do no value protecting their financial future against medical risk?

                          Are we really a nation that on one side of the isle is hoping people skirt their reponsibility to pay for themselves in case of Medical issues? I thought we were the nation of personal reponsibility? I guess we are when it fits the political narrative?
                          It's not that all of them will. It's that as price tags increase, more of them will. And this law doesn't just bank on the healthy enrolling at the same rate as before. It banks on more young, healthy people insuring than ever before. With higher prices.

                          It's mindblowingly ill-conceived. And maybe they thought subsidies would be the difference. And that's maybe why they blew up the system to force people to sign in first to (attempt) to see a subsidized price instead of what it really costs.

                          But in the process they've made such a joke out of it that they'll never hit anything like the numbers they wanted. And if you can bet on anything, its that health insurers aren't going to go ahead and eat it as an act of charity.

                          As far as skirting responsibility, that's a copout. Young kids just starting out are the poorest demographic there is. They should be free to buy catastrophic backstop type coverage because that's all 95% of them need. Yoking them to older, wealthier people who already went through their young healthy phase while only paying their own way is not "responsibility" Just like our incredible deficits, it's political theft, plain and simple.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Another Obamacare horror story debunked


                            CNBC's Maria Bartiromo fails to walk the last mile with Deborah Cavallaro, lower right. (CNBC)

                            By Michael Hiltzik
                            October 30, 2013, 3:26 p.m.

                            Deborah Cavallaro is a hard-working real estate agent in the Westchester suburb of Los Angeles who has been featured prominently on a round of news shows lately, talking about how badly Obamacare is going to cost her when her existing plan gets canceled and she has to find a replacement.

                            She says she's angry at President Obama for having promised that people who like their health plans could keep them, when hers is getting canceled for not meeting Obamacare's standards.

                            "Please explain to me," she told Maria Bartiromo on CNBC Wednesday, "how my plan is a 'substandard' plan when ... I'd be paying more for the exchange plans than I am currently paying by a wide margin."

                            Bartiromo didn't take her up on her request. So I will.

                            The bottom line is that Cavallaro's assertion that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," as she put it Tuesday on NBC Channel 4, is the product of her own misunderstandings, abetted by a passel of uninformed and incurious news reporters.

                            I talked with Cavallaro, 60, after her CNBC appearance. Let's walk through what she told me.

                            Her current plan, from Anthem Blue Cross, is a catastrophic coverage plan for which she pays $293 a month as an individual policyholder. It requires her to pay a deductible of $5,000 a year and limits her out-of-pocket costs to $8,500 a year. Her plan also limits her to two doctor visits a year, for which she shoulders a copay of $40 each. After that, she pays the whole cost of subsequent visits.

                            This fits the very definition of a nonconforming plan under Obamacare. The deductible and out-of-pocket maximums are too high, the provisions for doctor visits too skimpy.

                            As for a replacement plan, she says she was quoted $478 a month by her insurance broker, but that's a lot more than she'll really be paying. Cavallaro told me she hasn't checked the website of Covered California, the state's health plan exchange, herself. I did so while we talked.

                            Here's what I found. I won't divulge her current income, which is personal, but this year it qualifies her for a hefty federal premium subsidy.

                            At her age, she's eligible for a good "silver" plan for $333 a month after the subsidy -- $40 a month more than she's paying now. But the plan is much better than her current plan -- the deductible is $2,000, not $5,000. The maximum out-of-pocket expense is $6,350, not $8,500. Her co-pays would be $45 for a primary care visit and $65 for a specialty visit -- but all visits would be covered, not just two.

                            Is that better than her current plan? Yes, by a mile.


                            If she wanted to pay less, Cavallaro could opt for lesser coverage in a "bronze" plan. She could buy one from the California exchange for as little as $194 a month. From Anthem, it's $256, or $444 a year less than she's paying now. That buys her a $5,000 deductible (the same as she's paying today) but the out-of-pocket limit is lower, $6,350. Office visits would be $60 for primary care and $70 for specialties, but again with no limit on the number of visits. Factor in the premium savings, and it's hard to deny that she's still ahead.

                            Cavallaro told me a couple of things that are worth considering. First, what she likes about her current plan is that she can go to any doctor of her choice and any hospital. That's not entirely true, because her current plan with Anthem does favor a network. Plainly, however, it's broad enough to serve her purposes. She's concerned that the new plans will offer smaller networks, which is probably true, though it's not necessarily true that the new networks will exclude her favorite doctors, hospitals or prescription formularies.

                            She also mentioned that her annual income fluctuates. It can be substantially lower, or substantially higher, than it is this year. What if next year she earns too much to qualify for the subsidy? Also a fair point -- at her current income, the subsidy is worth more than $200 a month to her. But that's not the same as saying that "there's nothing affordable about the Affordable Care Act," because at her current income, the act is vastly more affordable to her than what she's paying now.

                            When she told Channel 4 that "for the first time in my whole life, I will be without insurance," it's hard to understand what she was talking about. (Channel 4 didn't ask.) Better plans than she has now are available for her to purchase today, some of them for less money.

                            The sad truth is that Cavallaro has been very poorly served by the health insurance industry and the news media. It seems that Anthem didn't adequately explain her options for 2014 when it disclosed that her current plan is being canceled. If her insurance brokers told her what she says they did, they failed her. And the reporters who interviewed her without getting all the facts produced inexcusably shoddy work -- from Maria Bartiromo on down. They not only did her a disservice, but failed the rest of us too.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Health care in America must be reformed or it will bankrupt us. It's time for the Right to get on board.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by El Minion;3957743[B
                                The sad truth is that Cavallaro has been very poorly served by the health insurance industry and the news media.
                                She seems to be very happy with her (bad apple plan) and Obama promised if she's happy then she should be able to keep it.


                                Obama should have said “If the government doesn’t like your plan you can’t keep it”.

                                Comment

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