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  • proposed debt deal complete

    http://www.politicususa.com/2013/10/...can-party.html

    Do you want to know what Republicans get out of the proposed Senate debt ceiling deal? Nothing, but a crushing surrender.

    Republicans will get no changes to Obamacare. They will get no further spending cuts. The government will be funded until mid-late December, and here’s the kicker according to Greg Sargent, “According to the Democratic aide, Dems are likely to demand a debt limit extension into early summer — nine months, rather than six – with the idea being that the closer to the 2014 elections we get, the harder it will be for Republicans to stage another debt ceiling hostage crisis. Democrats don’t want such a crisis. They would prefer that Republicans simply agree to extend the debt limit cleanly. But by pushing this so deep into the 2014 election season, they are giving themselves a kind of insurance policy that guarantees that if Republicans do stage another debt limit crisis, Republicans will pay a serious political price for it.”

    If Republicans want the medical device tax repealed Democrats are going to demand that tax loopholes be closed for the wealthy and corporations, and Senate Democrats are even going to finally get the budget conference that they have asked the House Republicans for 18 times.

    What do Republicans get out of this? Nothing, but record low poll numbers.

    This deal, if it survives the House, would be a major victory for Democrats. It meets every single one of President Obama’s criteria. Obamacare (the ACA) is not changed. No budget negotiations occur before the government is reopened and the debt ceiling is raised, and there will be no short term threat of default by House Republicans on the debt ceiling.

    Whether or not this deal, if this does end up being the deal, can pass the House is a whole different story. Boehner and the House Republicans are still harboring delusion that they will be passing a short term six week deal.


    The reason why House Republicans want a short term deal is two fold. They view the CR and the debt ceiling as their last chance to kill the ACA before it is implemented fully on January 1, 2014. Secondly, vulnerable House Republicans want to avoid another crisis during the 2014 election.

    By placing the expiration of the debt ceiling extension right in the middle of the 2014 election, Democrats are setting up a lose/lose scenario for House Republicans. Boehner and company will have to fight among themselves as the election campaign is going on. Another debt ceiling fiasco could tear open all of the party wounds, or Republicans could to again threaten default and lose the House.

    A group of House Republicans and their Senate leader Ted Cruz thought they could ransom their way into killing the ACA. Instead, the Republicans are being offered a series of crushing terms of surrender that will be impossible for conservative activists and the tea party House GOPers to swallow.

    It’s clear that by cutting this deal with Majority Leader Reid, Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans are washing their hands of the Cruz/Boehner folly. If the country defaults, it will be because John Boehner refused to stand up to his own House Republicans and do what is right.

    Democrats and Senate Republicans are sending the signal that if the country defaults, the blame should go on Boehner and his tea crazed House Republicans. Harry Reid is laying out the terms of surrender. It’s unclear whether House Republicans realize that they’ve lost the war.
    Last edited by peacepipe; 10-14-2013, 02:41 PM.

  • #2
    That's where the deal should rest, on the shoulders of the Tea Party crazies. They flung the ****. Let them clean up the mess.

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    • #3
      But I thought it was irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling.
      Attached Files

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      • #4
        Paul Ryan is trying to kill the Senate deal.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by ant1999e View Post
          But I thought it was irresponsible to raise the debt ceiling.
          So now Republicans approve of Bush's drunken spending spree?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
            So now Republicans approve of Bush's drunken spending spree?
            Do the dems? Is there really a difference?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by ant1999e View Post
              Do the dems? Is there really a difference?
              Since the OMB says that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $178b, what's the issue? Looks to me like spending will be reduced, but the Republicans want to crash the government, and the world's economy, anyway. So, it's just for yuks?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
                Since the OMB says that Obamacare would reduce the deficit by $178b, what's the issue? Looks to me like spending will be reduced, but the Republicans want to crash the government, and the world's economy, anyway. So, it's just for yuks?
                Not sure about the OMB, since that's easily the more hyper-partisan of the two main budgeting agencies. But the "deficit neutral" ship long since sailed according to CBO.

                Especially since Obamacare banked Medicare savings and physician payment cuts that everyone knew would never see the light of day (which they haven't)

                Oh, along with that whole 10-years of tax increases against only 6 years of coverage subsidies. Anyway, from this point forward, Obamacare (as a whole) does nothing but cost.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by BBII View Post
                  Not sure about the OMB, since that's easily the more hyper-partisan of the two main budgeting agencies. But the "deficit neutral" ship long since sailed according to CBO.

                  Especially since Obamacare banked Medicare savings and physician payment cuts that everyone knew would never see the light of day (which they haven't)

                  Oh, along with that whole 10-years of tax increases against only 6 years of coverage subsidies. Anyway, from this point forward, Obamacare (as a whole) does nothing but cost.
                  Actually, the CBO says that repealing Obamacare would increase the deficit.

                  The CBO refused to provide a new cost estimate for repeal, saying there is too little time before the vote. But Director Doug Elmendorf pointed to an estimate from July 2012 that abolishing healthcare reform would raise the deficit by $109 billion over 10 years.
                  http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...se-the-deficit

                  Thanks for the bull****, but no thanks.

                  So, what is the good reason the Republicans have for bringing down the country?

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                  • #10
                    I believe the plan was to get a Republican in the white house in '16, which is easier if the economy collapses and the blame falls on the kenyan socialist.

                    Instead they're realizing they'll lose the house if they keep it up, so they need a way out quickly while saving face.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
                      Actually, the CBO says that repealing Obamacare would increase the deficit.

                      The CBO refused to provide a new cost estimate for repeal, saying there is too little time before the vote. But Director Doug Elmendorf pointed to an estimate from July 2012 that abolishing healthcare reform would raise the deficit by $109 billion over 10 years.
                      http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-actio...se-the-deficit

                      Thanks for the bull****, but no thanks.

                      So, what is the good reason the Republicans have for bringing down the country?
                      One, I said "going forward" meaning "from now on" so you reference something from over a year ago.

                      And then there's that pesky gap CBO always has to deal with between what Politicians say they'll do and what they'll actually do.

                      http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...dodges-deficit

                      In other words, in the real world, Obamacare is a huge cost, which will only grow from this point onward.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BBII View Post
                        One, I said "going forward" meaning "from now on" so you reference something from over a year ago.

                        And then there's that pesky gap CBO always has to deal with between what Politicians say they'll do and what they'll actually do.

                        http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...dodges-deficit

                        In other words, in the real world, Obamacare is a huge cost, which will only grow from this point onward.
                        OMB says bull****. CBO says bull****. BB says, who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Blart View Post
                          I believe the plan was to get a Republican in the white house in '16, which is easier if the economy collapses and the blame falls on the kenyan socialist.

                          Instead they're realizing they'll lose the house if they keep it up, so they need a way out quickly while saving face.
                          If Boehner cuts off the radicals and goes with the Senate deal, the crazies will respond by trying to take down his speakership and replacing him with Cantor. Things could get a lot crazier before this is over.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rohirrim View Post
                            OMB says bull****. CBO says bull****. BB says, who you gonna believe, me or your lyin' eyes?
                            CBO also said Medicare was going to slash reimbursements 20% 3 years ago

                            And it never happened. Yet they still count Obamacare's deficit impact as if it's going to. And it's not. Because, like Enron, DC Politicians lied to make costs look lower, and CBO is powerless to do anything about that.

                            GIGO.

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                            • #15
                              http://news.yahoo.com/debt-ceiling-d...161907863.html

                              House Republicans met privately for more than an hour in the basement of the Capitol on Tuesday, but finished with no clear proposal for how to avoid a possible federal default.
                              “There have been no decisions about what exactly we will do,” Republican House Speaker John Boehner said after the meeting. “But we’re going to continue to work with members on both sides of the aisle to try and make sure that there’s no issue of default and that we get our government reopened.”
                              Translation: Republican leaders still can’t find the votes they need to pass a debt ceiling increase.
                              The federal government has been shut down since Oct. 1, and the Treasury Department says that Congress must agree to a plan to raise the federal debt ceiling by the end of the day Thursday so the government can continue to pay its bills on time. Failing to raise the borrowing limit could rattle financial markets and put the federal government at risk of defaulting on its debts.
                              While nothing conclusive came out of the closed-door House GOP meeting, which began with a group rendition of “Amazing Grace,” lawmakers who attended described a possible framework for a House proposal that could see a vote as early as Tuesday afternoon: In exchange for an agreement to raise the federal debt ceiling until February and reopen the government until January, House Republicans want a law that would force all members of Congress and top administration officials — including President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden — to enroll in the federal exchanges established by the Democrats’ federal health care law. They also are considering asking for a two-year delay of the tax on medical devices that also is in the health care overhaul.

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