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  • #91
    We should be using our coal and natural gas while pouring the r&d money into nuclear fusion reactors. We get those babies online and look out it could fuel another era of huge advancement. Solar? sorry but not so much. Anyone who thinks solar is ever going to change the world is kidding themselves. They have poured a ton into it last 10 yrs and basically they aren't signifcantly more effecient yet. If you want the govt to fund something make it something big, that can really change our bottom line.

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    • #92
      Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
      Funny you asking why we are fixated on solar in this thread, or why I am whatever! Hey dumb**** look at the thread title, it's about wasting money on solar.
      You'll want to re-read your title bub. It does not single out solar. And your article isn't about energy production, it's about energy storage.

      Dumbass -- you don't even understand what your own ****ing post is about.
      Last edited by Fedaykin; 12-13-2012, 05:54 PM.

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      • #93
        Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
        We should be using our coal and natural gas while pouring the r&d money into nuclear fusion reactors. We get those babies online and look out it could fuel another era of huge advancement. Solar? sorry but not so much. Anyone who thinks solar is ever going to change the world is kidding themselves. They have poured a ton into it last 10 yrs and basically they aren't signifcantly more effecient yet. If you want the govt to fund something make it something big, that can really change our bottom line.
        Wow, just repeating yourself endlessly does not an argument make. That you completely blew off my previous reply to this malarkey is pretty telling.

        Of course, no matter what we use to replace dino power (fusion, solar, wind, hydro, whatever), we'll still need a way to STORE that power in order to use it in mobile applications (e.g. cars), which is why we need better batteries! Dino power comes pre-stored in a readily usable form. Nuclear binding energy does not.

        btw: You're full of sh*t, as usual. Average commercial solar cell (both major kinds) efficiency has nearly doubled in the last 10 years. If that's not 'significant' what is? It still lags significantly from what we have achieved in the lab, which is why we should keep working on ways to improve what we are currently doing. In the same time, the price has been reduced to a fraction of the cost 10 years ago.

        I love that you're such a p***Y that 10 years of work on something and you want to tuck tail and run. Like I said before, if the likes of you were running things we'd still be in the stone age.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
          America should be working to tear down tarrffs not make more of them. Sure they are needed sometimes but using them too much is a bad idea. For instance Obama trying to save solar with tarriffs to protect all his bad investments, when we could be getting the panels for next to nothing from China, installing them on our homes, and actually getting something out of it.
          So, cede technological leadership to China? Buy even MORE **** from China, filling their coffers at the expense of our own?

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          • #95
            If China wants to waste money giving us cheap panels we should oblige. Our economy would get stimulated by install/maintence jobs which is where the jobs are anyways.

            Instead he slapped tarriffs making them so expensive you need a govt subsidy to pay for it, to make it work economically. It's just not a good business model and points to solar panels being a loser. It won't be a technology that sticks once the real technology gets developed. The real being nuclear fusion reactors that run on seawater. Once we get that solar panels and power plants will be a joke.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
              If China wants to waste money giving us cheap panels we should oblige. Our economy would get stimulated by install/maintence jobs which is where the jobs are anyways.

              Instead he slapped tarriffs making them so expensive you need a govt subsidy to pay for it, to make it work economically. It's just not a good business model and points to solar panels being a loser. It won't be a technology that sticks once the real technology gets developed. The real being nuclear fusion reactors that run on seawater. Once we get that solar panels and power plants will be a joke.
              Commercially viable fusion is at least a century away. The best we've accomplished is a 10 billion dollar reactor that has yet to produce net positive energy or run for more than a few hundred milliseconds.

              And of course, you keep ignoring that even with fusion we still need the ability to store that energy, which is why we need to invest a lot into energy storage technology. You'll never fit a fusion reactor into a car.

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              • #97
                Battery technology will improve on a curve without much govt funding. Already some of the battery technology is growing. IMO it won't need much govt prodding. Let the private sector do it naturally fed.

                Well France has the most advanced one yet being built. I think 2020 it comes online. It will be used to try and figure out how to make them work as a powerplant. I;d rather invest money over the next 50 yrs going for fusion, then wasting it like Obama does. You know spending money on things the private sector will do if they made sense economically. No private companies can work on fusion without govt help. Its way too big and scientifically challenging.

                So we get some electric cars. Do you really think that is going to cool the earth? If it does then I was wrong but I think we could all drive them and co2 would still go up.

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                • #98
                  But I am not anti electric car Fed I think they are a great idea. I just don't believe govt needs to force the issue. The best thing you could do for that industry is to open up more rare earth mines in the USA. We need those minerals to make batteries. Right now China shoving the fact they are the only producer up are ass with a shovel.

                  We have one getting ready to open and in CA. I think its more then a yr away still though. When it goes we will own 30% of the rare earth market. When that happens you watch those industries will kick ass. But we will still point out when Obamas investments go south because it shows bad decision making on the people he put around him to decide this stuff. I'm not arguing that electric cars are stupid though. I don't think that at all.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                    Battery technology will improve on a curve without much govt funding. Already some of the battery technology is growing. IMO it won't need much govt prodding. Let the private sector do it naturally fed.
                    Energy storage tech is far, far behind. There's a reason your fancy smartphone needs to be charged twice a day. And of course we've only gotten to where were at with large amounts of government funding (see: universities).

                    Well France has the most advanced one yet being built. I think 2020 it comes online. It will be used to try and figure out how to make them work as a powerplant. I;d rather invest money over the next 50 yrs going for fusion, then wasting it like Obama does. You know spending money on things the private sector will do if they made sense economically. No private companies can work on fusion without govt help. Its way too big and scientifically challenging.
                    Put all our eggs in one basket, eh? A highly theoretical basket at that. Fusion may never be viable.

                    You seem to think all worthwhile advancement happens at a pace that is commercially viable. That's just amazing naive. Fundamental R&D is not something that is profitable in the short term, and don't kid yourself, energy production and storage tech all still requires fundamental R&D.

                    So we get some electric cars. Do you really think that is going to cool the earth? If it does then I was wrong but I think we could all drive them and co2 would still go up.
                    You have a single track mind. GCC is a concern, but so is the finite availability of Dino energy resources as well as the ecological consequences (beyond GCC) of gathering those resources. Ever seen a strip mining operation?

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                    • Cmon Fed most scientists in that field say it will eventually work. They usually aren't wrong but i fully admit that sort of stuff way over my head. I'm not saying Obama should not invest, i am saying the stimulus was a giveaway, done so fast no govt could distribute the money to winners. They just flung it all over the place to see what would stick. I fully agree though the govt needed for major change in science. I am 100% behind the space program, doing major things like try to develop fusion, go to mars, cure diseases and yes even battery storage. Its just Obama didn't do it right, he wasted a large portion of billions on crap. I wonder how much Obama even giving to fusion, i bet they would have loved 130 million here, 80 million here, you know the big chunks on companies bankrupt.

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                      • Also we have enough coal and oil to at least last the 100 yrs you yourself said before fusion could really be counted on. I am all for battery storages advancement though. In reality though to fuel that like i said we have to mine rare earths. You stay away from that because you know that while environmentalists love electric cars they dont like what is needed to build the batteries. Rare Earths are almost as important as dino fuels now. Better hope that 1 american rare earth mine is enough. IMO we should look to trounce China on this letting rare earths drop, and battery profits go through the roof.

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                        • Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                          Cmon Fed most scientists in that field say it will eventually work. They usually aren't wrong but i fully admit that sort of stuff way over my head.
                          Maybe it will work, maybe it won't. Beyond just the problem of initiating the reaction, there are multitudes of other problems. For example, how do we harness the energy that is produced? Last I read we don't have the exotic materials necessary to survive the neutron bombardment byproduct of the fusion reaction that will turn the internal parts of the reactor radioactive and make every feasible alloy we know of become brittle.

                          I'm not saying Obama should not invest, i am saying the stimulus was a giveaway, done so fast no govt could distribute the money to winners. They just flung it all over the place to see what would stick. I fully agree though the govt needed for major change in science. I am 100% behind the space program, doing major things like try to develop fusion, go to mars, cure diseases and yes even battery storage. Its just Obama didn't do it right, he wasted a large portion of billions on crap.
                          I know of two examples totaling < 1% of the stimulus. There's no such thing as a sure bet when you're talking about tackling difficult problems.

                          You know how many space program projects failed? How much disease research fails? How many boondoggles there have been in defense research?

                          You just want a want to attack the guy with a (D) behind his name.

                          I wonder how much Obama even giving to fusion, i bet they would have loved 130 million here, 80 million here, you know the big chunks on companies bankrupt.
                          Fusion research gets more money than all other energy research (production and storage) combined. It's doing fine.

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                          • Not accoridng to the this. This sounds like Obama cut funding for fusion research.

                            http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...r-fusion-power

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                            • Originally posted by cutthemdown View Post
                              Not accoridng to the this. This sounds like Obama cut funding for fusion research.

                              http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2...r-fusion-power
                              Actually, according to that, fusion research monies were moved around to better fund the ITER (one of the most important fusion research projects currently under way), something we committed to in 2003.

                              You really should read past the first paragraph when you try to cite something. Idiot.

                              You should also probably look up how much the Republican controlled congress has gutted energy research (except fossil fuel research) in the last few years.

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                              • Still not enough money and republicans should get more on board also. Its the next big leap for mankind and should be the main thrust of our science right now IMO. In the meantime use up all the oil and coal and stop this silly idea we can use solar to power the country.

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