The trenches... - The Orange Mane

TheDave · 09-13-2011, 08:37 AM

Soo...

Just as an option to the QB focused threads...

Everyone who watched last nights game saw both the offensive and defensive lines physically manhandled at the POA. The run game was an absolute joke... no push at all... all night long.

The D-Line wasn't much better. Linemen got to the second level all night long, and as a result we had a mini repeat of last October.

So are we that bad or are the OAK lines that good?

Beyond playing tebow, how do we fix this for the next 15 games?

alkemical · 09-13-2011, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Soo...

Just as an option to the QB focuse threads...

Everyone who watched last nights game saw both the offensive and defensive lines physically manhandled at the POA. The run game was an absolute joke... no push at all... all night long.

The D-Line wasn't much better. Linemen got to the second level all night long, and as a result we had a mini repeat of last October.

So are we that bad or are OAK lines that good?

Beyond playing tebow, how do we fix this for the next 15 games?

Do more heroine.

TheDave · 09-13-2011, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkemical

Do more heroine.

Doing more heroine = 2009 & 2010 seasons...

Been there done that

Kaylore · 09-13-2011, 08:40 AM

We'll need a few more games to see. The Raiders lines are better than ours. They were very good last year. It might be we are really horrible. It might be that we're average and teams stack the box against Orton and blitz him and it makes us look worse than it is.

I'll tell you this, though. When Tebow played in Oakland, we looked a lot better. The DE's had to play contain and the safeties were backing off.

alkemical · 09-13-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Doing more heroine = 2009 & 2010 seasons...

Been there done that

Hippie-flip

Mountain Bronco · 09-13-2011, 08:43 AM

Raiders lines are good. I thought our Dline played hard, but are simply over matched. Our linebackers seem to crash into piles instead of picking their way through piles and trying to disengage. In fact the smallest of them all did the best at getting off blocks. Now that is sad.

Our Oline got owned tonight. I don't think we are very good up the middle (willing to give Franklin some time to improve as this was his first game.

Yes, the trenches are as big of a problem as the QB play.

PRBronco · 09-13-2011, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Soo...

Just as an option to the QB focused threads...

Everyone who watched last nights game saw both the offensive and defensive lines physically manhandled at the POA. The run game was an absolute joke... no push at all... all night long.

The D-Line wasn't much better. Linemen got to the second level all night long, and as a result we had a mini repeat of last October.

So are we that bad or are the OAK lines that good?

Beyond playing tebow, how do we fix this for the next 15 games?

This team has been losing in the trenches since Shanny was here unfortunately. Although we should give the Raiders D line some credit, they're a good group.

Actually on the subject of the trenches: I know he wasn't a world beater but I'm glad we got Bunkley, he's a lot better than most of the **** we've had at DT over the past decade.

TheDave · 09-13-2011, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylore

We'll need a few more games to see. The Raiders lines are better than ours. They were very good last year. It might be we are really horrible. It might be that we're average and teams stack the box against Orton and blitz him and it makes us look worse than it is.

I'll tell you this, though. When Tebow played in Oakland, we looked a lot better. The DE's had to play contain and the safeties were backing off.

Absolutely, nothing is written in stone. There were missed assignments all over the place. Things like that can and will be cleaned up.

My fear was the relatively consistent domination at the POA. Play after play we had individuals getting dominated physically. That's what scares me the most.

TheDave · 09-13-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRBronco

This team has been losing in the trenches since Shanny was here unfortunately. Although we should give the Raiders D line some credit, they're a good group.

Actually on the subject of the trenches: I know he wasn't a world beater but I'm glad we got Bunkley, he's a lot better than most of the **** we've had at DT over the past decade.

Bunkley was the best of the worse last night. Saw him getting double teamed time and again.

DarkHorse · 09-13-2011, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Absolutely, nothing is written in stone. There were missed assignments all over the place. Things like that can and will be cleaned up.

My fear was the relatively consistent domination at the POA. Play after play we had individuals getting dominated physically. That's what scares me the most.

And that's the point when leaders lead or at least make a feeble attempt to lead. Neither of which our 'leader' was capable of even trying.

TheReverend · 09-13-2011, 09:04 AM

Linemen got to the second level all day long because the focus in Denver is to get into the backfield to try and disrupt instead of stopping the ****ing play.

TheReverend · 09-13-2011, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Bunkley was the best of the worse last night. Saw him getting double teamed time and again.

Agree. Vickerson (penalty aside) was far from bad as well.

Ayers remains a disappointment.

TheDave · 09-13-2011, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Agree. Vickerson (penalty aside) was far from bad as well.

Ayers remains a disappointment.

Not to troll my own thread... BUT...

Duh, he is a member of the legendary 2009 draft class. You know the class that should be the cornerstone of our young upcoming roster.

Knowshon Moreno
Robert Ayers
Alphonso Smith
Darcel McBath
Richard Quinn
David Bruton
Seth Olson
Kenny McKinley
Tom Brandstater
Blake Schlueter

Seriously we got 10 out of the 35 players McD had ranked... how could that not be a win.

TheReverend · 09-13-2011, 09:13 AM

^ goddamn that looks even worse every week

Traveler · 09-13-2011, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

My fear was the relatively consistent domination at the POA. Play after play we had individuals getting dominated physically. That's what scares me the most.

If our future opponents are smart and have players physically similar to OAK, the Raiders laid out the blueprint for defeating us.

As you've sadi numerous times, we just don't have the type of physically talented players to match up teams like OAK, BAL, PIT.

We don't get better until we acquire enough players that can dominate at the POA. We currently have only two of five need players on the O-Line and none on the D-Line except for Dumervil and possibly Bunkley.

This rebuild is gonna take some time.

TheDave · 09-13-2011, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

^ goddamn that looks even worse every week

Wait until next season when Ayers is the only player left from that class

TheChamp24 · 09-13-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Not to troll my own thread... BUT...

Duh, he is a member of the legendary 2009 draft class. You know the class that should be the cornerstone of our young upcoming roster.

Knowshon Moreno
Robert Ayers
Alphonso Smith
Darcel McBath
Richard Quinn
David Bruton
Seth Olson
Kenny McKinley
Tom Brandstater
Blake Schlueter

Seriously we got 10 out of the 35 players McD had ranked... how could that not be a win.

At least Bruton did something and broke up what would've been a TD in the 2nd quarter.

I really hope we won't regret taking Miller ahead of Dareus.

TheReverend · 09-13-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Wait until next season when Ayers is the only player left from that class

Dont forget to do a:

-Cutler
+Orton

To that off-season equation.

Popps · 09-13-2011, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Soo...

Just as an option to the QB focused threads...

You're fighting an uphill battle here, brother.

But, you're also correct. We haven't been able to run the ball in short yardage situations when we've NEEDED to for years, and I don't just mean a couple years.

We've been getting gashed on the D-line for years.

Certainly, the (current and) past 3 coaching staffs can take part-blame for ignoring the interior D-line in drafts, and in FA.

Last night was a continuation of last year. Orton is continually put in throw-only, and 3rd and long situations because we simply can't open running lanes on early downs. So, when Orton can't turn into John Elway... people call for his head. Easy enough to understand, but it does miss the larger picture.

We've got to invest massive resources in these lines. Our interior offensive line is simply not adequate for NFL football. This is beyond obvious, at this point. Franklin was a nice addition, imo. But, we've got a ton of work to do.

This won't be fixed this season. The best we can hope for is that a healthy Thomas/Warren eventually adds some solidity to the inside. As for the O-line, Franklin should improve as the season goes on. But, I don't know what to say about the rest of the guys. But, we've got to figure out a way to employ some early-down running plays that give our offense a chance to convert some shorter 3rd downs and keep some drives alive.

TheReverend · 09-13-2011, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popps

You're fighting an uphill battle here, brother.

But, you're also correct. We haven't been able to run the ball in short yardage situations when we've NEEDED to for years, and I don't just mean a couple years.

We've been getting gashed on the D-line for years.

Certainly, the (current and) past 3 coaching staffs can take part-blame for ignoring the interior D-line in drafts, and in FA.

Last night was a continuation of last year. Orton is continually put in throw-only, and 3rd and long situations because we simply can't open running lanes on early downs. So, when Orton can't turn into John Elway... people call for his head. Easy enough to understand, but it does miss the larger picture.

We've got to invest massive resources in these lines. Our interior offensive line is simply not adequate for NFL football. This is beyond obvious, at this point. Franklin was a nice addition, imo. But, we've got a ton of work to do.

This won't be fixed this season. The best we can hope for is that a healthy Thomas/Warren eventually adds some solidity to the inside. As for the O-line, Franklin should improve as the season goes on. But, I don't know what to say about the rest of the guys. But, we've got to figure out a way to employ some early-down running plays that give our offense a chance to convert some shorter 3rd downs and keep some drives alive.

No, Popps.

When Orton can't turn into Bubby Brister is when people call for his head.

Popps · 09-13-2011, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PRBronco

This team has been losing in the trenches since Shanny was here unfortunately. .

This is the plain truth. I know, because I've been on these boards b****ing about this fact, basically since message boards were invented.

Look at Detroit, look at Oakland... now given, they had a lot of high picks to invest. But, their improvement started by acquiring players in the trenches.

It's boring, but it's true. People can yap about how this is a passing league now, but when it comes down to it... it's still won/lost with the big slobs up front.

Popps · 09-13-2011, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

No, Popps.

When Orton can't turn into Bubby Brister is when people call for his head.

Wait, so... you don't like Orton? Let me do a post-search, but I think this is the first time you've mentioned this fascinating fact.

Happen to catch the title of the thread?

I think Dave was hoping people could get off that subject for 30 seconds or so.

BMF Bronco · 09-13-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Agree. Vickerson (penalty aside) was far from bad as well.

Ayers remains a disappointment.

Ugh, that asshat was within arms length of McFadden on his 47 yard tromp and didn't even give the slightest bit of effort to tackle him.

TheReverend · 09-13-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Popps

Wait, so... you don't like Orton? Let me do a post-search, but I think this is the first time you've mentioned this fascinating fact.

Happen to catch the title of the thread?

I think Dave was hoping people could get off that subject for 30 seconds or so.

Shame you felt the need to bring it back up then.

alkemical · 09-13-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDave

Bunkley was the best of the worse last night. Saw him getting double teamed time and again.

The injury to Ty Warren really hurts, well that and the lack of talent across the board in key areas.

09-13-2011, 08:37 AM	#1
TheDave Sauced... Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 15,120	The trenches... Soo... Just as an option to the QB focused threads... Everyone who watched last nights game saw both the offensive and defensive lines physically manhandled at the POA. The run game was an absolute joke... no push at all... all night long. The D-Line wasn't much better. Linemen got to the second level all night long, and as a result we had a mini repeat of last October. So are we that bad or are the OAK lines that good? Beyond playing tebow, how do we fix this for the next 15 games?

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09-13-2011, 08:40 AM	#4
Kaylore 6-37, Raider fans. Yummy birds and snow! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Ceti Alpha V Posts: 41,322 Adopt-a-Bronco: Wesley Duke	We'll need a few more games to see. The Raiders lines are better than ours. They were very good last year. It might be we are really horrible. It might be that we're average and teams stack the box against Orton and blitz him and it makes us look worse than it is. I'll tell you this, though. When Tebow played in Oakland, we looked a lot better. The DE's had to play contain and the safeties were backing off.

09-13-2011, 08:43 AM	#6
Mountain Bronco Ring of Famer Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Mountains Posts: 1,447	Raiders lines are good. I thought our Dline played hard, but are simply over matched. Our linebackers seem to crash into piles instead of picking their way through piles and trying to disengage. In fact the smallest of them all did the best at getting off blocks. Now that is sad. Our Oline got owned tonight. I don't think we are very good up the middle (willing to give Franklin some time to improve as this was his first game. Yes, the trenches are as big of a problem as the QB play.

09-13-2011, 09:04 AM	#11
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ "not an athlete" Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 33,348 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	Linemen got to the second level all day long because the focus in Denver is to get into the backfield to try and disrupt instead of stopping the ****ing play.

09-13-2011, 09:13 AM	#14
TheReverend www.PatrickTurley.org ^ "not an athlete" Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 33,348 Adopt-a-Bronco: Mike Shanahan	^ goddamn that looks even worse every week