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Old 09-13-2011, 05:52 AM   #1
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Default Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes!

I know this place is about to go to blame mode central with the usual cast of characters, but this game was a simple rivalry game gone bad that increased the level of mistakes DEN made in all three phases of the game. OAK sure made more than enough to let DEN take advantage of them, but somehow DEN made just as many or more. Here is what I saw yesterday before the game:

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Mistakes, mistakes, mistakes.

There was some real solid football played THU, but yesterday was about losing teams making critical errors with the game on the line. I just finished watching about 80% of the games on shortcuts and taking notes and the teams who lost gave games away, they did not have teams take it from them.

I think playing at home, playing conservatively on offense, and having a revised defensive scheme should benefit DEN tonight. Unless they hand this game to the Raiders, like KC did to BUF yesterday, its a close game. We all KNOW OAK will make a bunch of errors, but Will DEN turn those into TD's or suck in the red Zone again?

Well the answer to that is:No they made bigger errors!

No predictions, this is rivalry game and no rules apply. However, I like our chances with the way the Raiders have looked with mistakes, attrition, and a stupid mentality
This game was bad, but it is fixable to some extent. Both teams quit playing football and were playing playground ball. DEN took the bait and for some reason stopped run blitzing. They looked like they had a new Defense, they looked horrible on the OL run blocking, and they played with a chip on their shoulder the wrong way.

The blame is solely on the team losing its cool, getting drawn into the raiders ineptitude, and not having an OL or DL worth a damn.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:56 AM   #2
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Denver's MVP was the Raiders for beating themselves and handing Denver a win on multiple occasions.

The Raiders' MVP was the Broncos for refusing to take the win.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:56 AM   #3
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...they looked horrible on the OL run blocking...

...and not having an OL or DL worth a damn...
These are the main things I saw. Most people apparently only noticed Kyle Orton.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:03 AM   #4
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Denver's MVP was the Raiders for beating themselves and handing Denver a win on multiple occasions.

The Raiders' MVP was the Broncos for refusing to take the win.
DEN got drawn into the old 1980's raiders BS and forgot they suck at that! It was, exactly what I thought it would be. Ugly, but the degree of ugly it went to was playground ball ugly. DEN allowed themselves to stop playing football and playing on raw emotion. Not a strength and I am definitely not a fan.

They lost the game upstairs in their heads. They lost their mentality. I hate weak ass minded players. Well, the OL showed their resolve last night. Plus, the Raiders DL is power based and they used poor footing on DEN's OL to just Bull rush the hell out of those guys. When they finally went from power to speed the OL could not handle it at all....

DEN just lost sight of winning and started caring about not getting pushed around. Bad, bad coaching and even worse veteran leadership IMHO!
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:14 AM   #5
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The Raiders had something like 22 penalties called against them. Gave the Broncos 6 First Downs. Extended drives even when we put ourselves in 3rd and Never situations.

Here is a play that epitomizes what most Broncos fans see and why they are sick of Orton. When Moreno took the screen down to the 6 yard line there was absolutlely no confidence that we would actually score a TD. When the announcers were talking about Moreno being smart for covering up the ball and not worrying about the TD, I thought I wish he would have just sold out going for the endzone... Of course Orton threw a horrible ball and took another sack. Orton makes the OL look a lot worse than they are.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:15 AM   #6
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DEN got drawn into the old 1980's raiders BS and forgot they suck at that! It was, exactly what I thought it would be. Ugly, but the degree of ugly it went to was playground ball ugly. DEN allowed themselves to stop playing football and playing on raw emotion. Not a strength and I am definitely not a fan.

They lost the game upstairs in their heads. They lost their mentality. I hate weak ass minded players. Well, the OL showed their resolve last night. Plus, the Raiders DL is power based and they used poor footing on DEN's OL to just Bull rush the hell out of those guys. When they finally went from power to speed the OL could not handle it at all....

DEN just lost sight of winning and started caring about not getting pushed around. Bad, bad coaching and even worse veteran leadership IMHO!
After the last few years and last nights game, I have little hope for this team in the future....
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:17 AM   #7
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Orton makes the OL look a lot worse than they are.
And vice versa. It really does go both ways. We can replace Orton with Tebow but unfortunately we can't replace that offensive line so easily...
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:20 AM   #8
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The defense has improved a lot, even with the stupid penalties and mistakes. The offense is definately a work in progress. Fox should get some time to build his team but I may start thinking otherwise if they play that sloppy all year.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:24 AM   #9
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And vice versa. It really does go both ways. We can replace Orton with Tebow but unfortunately we can't replace that offensive line so easily...
at least a mobile QB can create yards with his legs. I lost all confidence in Orton being a starter after the drop, it wasn't a fumble, numbnutz just dropped the ball.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:28 AM   #10
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DEN got drawn into the old 1980's raiders BS and forgot they suck at that! It was, exactly what I thought it would be. Ugly, but the degree of ugly it went to was playground ball ugly. DEN allowed themselves to stop playing football and playing on raw emotion. Not a strength and I am definitely not a fan.

They lost the game upstairs in their heads. They lost their mentality. I hate weak ass minded players. Well, the OL showed their resolve last night. Plus, the Raiders DL is power based and they used poor footing on DEN's OL to just Bull rush the hell out of those guys. When they finally went from power to speed the OL could not handle it at all....

DEN just lost sight of winning and started caring about not getting pushed around. Bad, bad coaching and even worse veteran leadership IMHO!
Not that I disagree with anything you're saying... but we were given so many opportunities last night and as usual Orton couldn't take advantage. He is incredibly weak in the redzone. And per his normal MO, he didn't make plays until it was too late.

When you watch the tape again let me know what you think about the Raiders Pass Pro vs Von Miller. I recall at least three times where he was hooked and tackled and it was never called once. Franklin does something similar to Wimbley and the flag flies. Very inconsistent officiating (over officiating at many points) but if that is the way things are going to go for Von Miller then he is going to need to develop an inside move b/c they wrapped his speed dip up all night long.
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:35 AM   #11
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These are the main things I saw. Most people apparently only noticed Kyle Orton.
What's your assessment on Orton's performance last night.
Tell us something we may have missed...
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:38 AM   #12
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What's your assessment on Orton's performance last night.
Tell us something we may have missed...
he throws a great ball while crapping his pants....
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:42 AM   #13
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Sorry, but what's the point of this thread?

That teams that lost badly last year and have an entirely new coaching staff and huge roster turnover make mistakes?

Thanks Med, but that's nothing new. We can't replace the OL/DL with better players because we don't have any.

The reason why the QB situation is in focus isn't because people are saying it's ALL Orton's fault, but because even Tebow can play better than the limited, mistake prone QB play we got from Orton.

It's strictly replacing a limited player with someone else from the bench who can immediately upgrade:

1. the mobility
2. red zone threat
3. and long ball of the passing game

I'd take Tebow's flaws over Orton's piss poor, mistake prone, gutless play last nite any day of the week.

If we had some potentially great DL/OL/MLB just sitting on the bench, then sure bring them on also. The FACT is we don't so nobody is going to go on about Walton/Beadles/Vickerson/Mays sucking, because the guys behind them suck even more.

Understand?

Last edited by fontaine; 09-13-2011 at 06:45 AM..
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:57 AM   #14
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What's your assessment on Orton's performance last night.
Tell us something we may have missed...
He wasn't, and isn't, good enough. But neither was/is our O-line, D-line, and RB position, just to name a few. If it makes you feel better to put all the blame on one guy have at it.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:03 AM   #15
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John Fox on the play of Kyle Orton:

“All and all, like all of us, it probably wasn’t good enough.”

Fox on Orton‘s fumble where the ball slipped from his hand:

“That was a pivotal play, no doubt.”
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:14 AM   #16
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He wasn't, and isn't, good enough. But neither was/is our O-line, D-line, and RB position, just to name a few. If it makes you feel better to put all the blame on one guy have at it.
DL really didn't play that bad. A lot of times their plays are designed to just crash into a gap and let the LB fill in the backside.

Well... turns out our LBs suck (aside from a valiant effort by lil Wesley) and can't do that and we gave up a ton of ground to draws thanks to our awesome 52 defense Miller scheme.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:14 AM   #17
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John Fox on the play of Kyle Orton:

“All and all, like all of us, it probably wasn’t good enough.”

Fox on Orton‘s fumble where the ball slipped from his hand:

“That was a pivotal play, no doubt.”
omfg
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:15 AM   #18
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Yes there were mistakes everywhere...

But IMO, the title of this thread should be talent, talent, talent.

Follow me on this crappy little journey... Between 2000 and 2005 Shanahan drafted worse than I thought humanly possible. Then he rights a whole lot of wrongs with an inhuman 2006 draft... followed by a typical 2007 & 08. Yes, Shanahan sucked at drafting this century.

Enter McD... he takes 2006's moment of genius and trades most of it away for studs like Knowshon, Ayers, Smith, Beadles, and Walton. I know people hate this game, but if Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler are on this offense we do a lot better than 10 pts.

The point of all this... we are lacking the talent to compete almost everywhere. Sure our players lost their cool and committed stupid mistakes, but that frustration was born out of the fact that they were physically getting their ass handed to them play after play.

Right now, we do not have the talent to compete... Especially in the trenches and especially against a talented Oak D-Line.

P.S. Just to be a complete downer. As bad as I think we are, I still don't think we are bad enough to compete for the #1 pick. Oh we will be in the top 10 so Landry and Barkley are possibilities, but the "suck for luck" motto is going to fall short.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:21 AM   #19
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Denver's MVP was the Raiders for beating themselves and handing Denver a win on multiple occasions.

The Raiders' MVP was the Broncos for refusing to take the win.
what made the game even worse, was Dilfer's commentary all night long. he took a bad game and made it unbearable. i'm pretty sure he must get a royalty on every remote control manufactured with a MUTE button. ESPN is really awful at doing NFL games. thank God this is our only monday night appearance this year... it is our only appearance, right?
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:24 AM   #20
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Yes there were mistakes everywhere...

But IMO, the title of this thread should be talent, talent, talent.

Follow me on this crappy little journey... Between 2000 and 2005 Shanahan drafted worse than I thought humanly possible. Then he rights a whole lot of wrongs with an inhuman 2006 draft... followed by a typical 2007 & 08. Yes, Shanahan sucked at drafting this century.

Enter McD... he takes 2006's moment of genius and trades most of it away for studs like Knowshon, Ayers, Smith, Beadles, and Walton. I know people hate this game, but if Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler are on this offense we do a lot better than 10 pts.

The point of all this... we are lacking the talent to compete almost everywhere. Sure our players lost their cool and committed stupid mistakes, but that frustration was born out of the fact that they were physically getting their ass handed to them play after play.

Right now, we do not have the talent to compete... Especially in the trenches and especially against a talented Oak D-Line.

P.S. Just to be a complete downer. As bad as I think we are, I still don't think we are bad enough to compete for the #1 pick. Oh we will be in the top 10 so Landry and Barkley are possibilities, but the "suck for luck" motto is going to fall short.
...with Orton as our QB we have no idea what the rest of the offense is capable of. We know what the floor is...no idea about the ceiling.

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Old 09-13-2011, 07:25 AM   #21
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what made the game even worse, was Dilfer's commentary all night long. he took a bad game and made it unbearable. i'm pretty sure he must get a royalty on every remote control manufactured with a MUTE button. ESPN is really awful at doing NFL games. thank God this is our only monday night appearance this year... it is our only appearance, right?

His waxing poetic about reese was almost Hillisian in scope.


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Old 09-13-2011, 07:26 AM   #22
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what made the game even worse, was Dilfer's commentary all night long. he took a bad game and made it unbearable. i'm pretty sure he must get a royalty on every remote control manufactured with a MUTE button. ESPN is really awful at doing NFL games. thank God this is our only monday night appearance this year... it is our only appearance, right?
This. I had to turn on some music it was so bad. Probably the worst I have ever heard.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:26 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by TheDave View Post
Yes there were mistakes everywhere...

But IMO, the title of this thread should be talent, talent, talent.

Follow me on this crappy little journey... Between 2000 and 2005 Shanahan drafted worse than I thought humanly possible. Then he rights a whole lot of wrongs with an inhuman 2006 draft... followed by a typical 2007 & 08. Yes, Shanahan sucked at drafting this century.

Enter McD... he takes 2006's moment of genius and trades most of it away for studs like Knowshon, Ayers, Smith, Beadles, and Walton. I know people hate this game, but if Cutler, Marshall, Hillis, and Scheffler are on this offense we do a lot better than 10 pts.

The point of all this... we are lacking the talent to compete almost everywhere. Sure our players lost their cool and committed stupid mistakes, but that frustration was born out of the fact that they were physically getting their ass handed to them play after play.

Right now, we do not have the talent to compete... Especially in the trenches and especially against a talented Oak D-Line.

P.S. Just to be a complete downer. As bad as I think we are, I still don't think we are bad enough to compete for the #1 pick. Oh we will be in the top 10 so Landry and Barkley are possibilities, but the "suck for luck" motto is going to fall short.
Most teams aren't stacked with offensive talent.

You just need talent at the right positions like QB, LT, WR, RB.

We've got it at LT, WR but our starting QB is playinig like a rookie.

THAT'S why I've changed my mind about Orton (and pretty soon Fox will too). Nothing personal against Orton, but if a veteran QB plays like a rookie then might as well insert a far more physically talented Tebow in the starting line up.

Never mind the complete lack of mobility, throwing the ball away, the red zone incompetence, holding on to the damn ball too long and all of that. In the very least if you're veteran QB is throwing interceptions/coughing up the ball untouched then . . . he's . . . not really. . . a veteran QB.

Time for Tebow.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:27 AM   #24
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surprised there is no talk of Joe Mays here. Guy flat out sux! Guy should not be starting. I was totally embarrassed by his play! get him out of here!
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:32 AM   #25
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His waxing poetic about reese was almost Hillisian in scope.


i can almost imagine how the game prep went for Dilfer this week.

ESPN Producer: "Hey Trent, you're doing the Raiders game on Monday night".
Dilfer: "Cool. Who are the Raiders playing again?"
ESPN Producer: "Doesn't matter. Here are the game tapes for the Raiders from last year and this year's pre-season. Watch them all and take notes."
Dilfer: "Ok."
ESPN Producer: "Oh, one last thing. Do not allow there to be even 1 second of dead air. The moment you think that dead air is about to happen, just raise your voice and say whatever stupid **** comes into your head, ok?"
Dilfer: "Sure thing boss."
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