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Old 09-05-2011, 09:00 PM   #1
HAT
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Default "We know what Orton is"

I kind of laughed when SoCal threw out a statement today that Cutler was a winner under Shanny when the defense allowed 21 PPG or less. I joking responded that McD/Orton were 9-2 last two years with the same caveat.

I'm bored so I dug into some numbers....Food for thought.

The Orton led Broncos are 11-18 over the last 2 years (including the 'Skins & Charger games where Simms played a couple of halves) and most people want to put that solely on Orton and his sub-par numbers in the RZ and 3rd down %. And while it's fair to say that those numbers have indeed been sub-par, that's not the reason for the under .500 record.

I even bumped up the theoretical PPG allowed theory to 23.5 and the numbers are pretty telling.

Orton / Denver is 10-2 when the defense allows 23 points or less. Additionally, the offense scored 24 PPG on average in those games (about a FG better than their overall 2009-2010 average). Orton's TD/INT ratio in those games is 17-4. Yes, you read that right...Over 4-1!

Orton / Denver is 1-16 in games where the defense allowed 24 points or more. Denver's offense scored 18 PPG in those games...About a FG under their 2 year average. And I was surprised to see that Orton's TD/INT ratio in those games was still 2-1 (16-8). The opponents average score in those games? 32! To put that in perspective...It's full TD WORSE than their two year average of 25 PPG allowed. That's an average point differential of 14 in those games.

Keep in mind that all of this occurred with an average to below average running game (4.0 YPC 2 year average). And with "the worst coach evah!" according to most.

So yeah, we know what Orton is.

A guy who can win games at an incredible clip with a semi-competent defense. .833 WP

A guy who can absolutely take care of the ball with a semi competent defense. 17 TDs in 12 games to only 4 INTs.

A guy who's going to lose a few coin flips in close games where the defense did their jobs.

A guy who is for the most part still going to take care of the ball when the defense is sucking (16-8 TD/INT in =/> 24 PPG defensive performances)

A guy who will occasionally **** the bed and be the direct cause of the defense sucking.

Is John Fox a better game day coach than McD?
Will Denver's YPC be better under Fox than it was under McD?
Will Denver's D be better under Fox/Allen than it was under McD/Nolan/Wink?
With the return/addition of VonDoom?

If you think the answer is yes to all of the above than there is no reason to think that Denver can't win 10 games with a healthy Orton under center.

PS. This is not a Tebow thread. I like him too and want him to start when and if the playoffs are out of reach. I also wanted Orton traded pre-draft but the lockout screwed that pooch. I also don't want Orton extended unless something crazy happens like a 13-3 season and a deep playoff run that can largely be attributed to Orton himself.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
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I kind of laughed when SoCal threw out a statement today that Cutler was a winner under Shanny
Orton with a ****ty D = 3-10

Cutler with a ****ty D = 8-8

So, stopped reading. You continue to be mind-numbingly stupid.

Looking forward to you claiming THIS is the year Orton goes to the pro-bowl... again...
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:07 PM   #3
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Lets pray hes stays healthy and OL can keep him from being pounded
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:10 PM   #4
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Lets pray hes stays healthy and OL can keep him from being pounded
(Insert video of Orton self sack to Dareus)
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:11 PM   #5
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Hopefully the Broncos will be having a great year and a trip to the playoffs.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:15 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Orton with a ****ty D = 3-10

Cutler with a ****ty D = 8-8

So, stopped reading. You continue to be mind-numbingly stupid.

Looking forward to you claiming THIS is the year Orton goes to the pro-bowl... again...
Rock solid logic right there.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
Orton with a ****ty D = 3-10

Cutler with a ****ty D = 8-8

So, stopped reading. You continue to be mind-numbingly stupid.

Looking forward to you claiming THIS is the year Orton goes to the pro-bowl... again...
Don't be a douche bag, he posted some decent trends and came to the same conclusion many would come to by simply looking at the numbers. Orton has a knack to put up 300 yards and /ook extremely ordinary doing it. He can win us games if the D improves, it just wont be as fun to watch compared to Tebow, or even Cutler or Jake for that matter.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:22 PM   #8
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(Insert video of Orton self sack to Dareus)
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:24 PM   #9
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*Make sarcastic comment and scamper away without actually refuting anything*
5 star post.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:26 PM   #10
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Don't be a douche bag, he posted some decent trends and came to the same conclusion many would come to by simply looking at the numbers. Orton has a knack to put up 300 yards and /ook extremely ordinary doing it. He can win us games if the D improves, it just wont be as fun to watch compared to Tebow, or even Cutler or Jake for that matter.
Yeah, no, it was a really ****ty post from start to finish.

Quite frankly, let's cut to the chase and I'll just finish the thread title:

"We know what Orton is... a journeyman backup QB whose position on the depth chart highlights how ****ed we currently are"

All better?
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:27 PM   #11
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I really need to bookmark this thing
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:28 PM   #12
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The Orton hate on this board is ridiculous.......
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:30 PM   #13
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The Orton hate on this board is ridiculous.......
You'll get over it.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:31 PM   #14
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The Orton hate on this board is ridiculous.......
It's not just this board. It's pretty much every Broncos Board. I would say about 75% of Broncos fans don't like the guy. Probably because he sucks.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:31 PM   #15
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The Orton hate on this board is ridiculous.......
Uh... it's the BELIEF in Orton that is ****ing ridiculous.

Kid's been benched at every turn.

After his best season ever, his "team" throws everything and the kitchen sink at us to get rid of him and replace him with actual NFL talent.

The guy that traded for him wouldn't even give him an extension longer than 1 year.

The current FO has said they aren't planning on extending him.

NO ONE ****ING WANTED HIM ON THE TRADE BLOCK.

Get this **** through your head.

He sucks as bad as he looks on Sundays.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:32 PM   #16
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5 star post.
Thanks brah, I model my style after you.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:34 PM   #17
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Thanks brah, I model my style after you.
If that were actually even remotely the case I would honestly run straight into the highway right now. Promise. Instead you're a mixture of illiteracy and straight 0 comprehension the very rare occasions when you try to talk football. If I'm ever feeling down, and I never am, I could look in the mirror and say "I'm not Inkana" and immediately feel better and ready to take on the day.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:41 PM   #18
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I don't really have any hate for Orton at all, but the title of the thread is a very good one considering the original post.

All those fancy stats tell me is that Orton has proven capable of playing just fine and not making mistakes when the defense is playing well and he isn't needed to win the game. When the defense starts giving up points and yards or the going gets tough, he's not all that useful and sometimes just lousy. But then, I already knew that about him.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:41 PM   #19
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The Orton hate on this board is ridiculous.......
it's like five nutjob posters, they all just happen to post the same **** 35 times a day
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:45 PM   #20
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If that were actually even remotely the case I would honestly run straight into the highway right now. Promise. Instead you're a mixture of illiteracy and straight 0 comprehension the very rare occasions when you try to talk football. If I'm ever feeling down, and I never am, I could look in the mirror and say "I'm not Inkana" and immediately feel better and ready to take on the day.
Heh. I mean, I guess I could aspire to spend like 75% of my day calling people on the OMane stupid and getting so attached to certain players that I act like I'm their father, but I'm too busy not being an ass.
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:52 PM   #21
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:53 PM   #22
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(Insert video of Orton self sack to Dareus)
(insert video of Timmah doing the same against AZ.)
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Old 09-05-2011, 09:53 PM   #23
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Been saving that for just such a moment O
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:01 PM   #24
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The way I see it...

You can only even consider making a case against Orton being the cause of 3 2009 losses.

1) Game 8 vs. Pitt
This one is 100% on Kyle. The defense pitched a shutout in the 1H. Pitt led 7-3 at the half on a pick 6. Denver took a 10-7 lead on the Ayers fumble return. The D was gassed and Pitt finadlly drove the field to make it 14-10. Orton then throws pick #2 to Polamalu deep in Denver territory, Pitt scores 3 plays later and that's all she wrote. Defense played their heart out and even scored a rare TD but the offense did nothing and Orton would finish with 3 picks.

2) Game 14 vs. Oak
This was a pure team loss. Orton deserves his fair share of blame as the offense scored 4 FG's to a single TD. A lot of that goes on McD and an anemic run game that only managed 2.9 YPC though. Still though, Denver led deep in the 4th Q and the D couldn't get off the field....Yielding a 4th and 10 conversion and an eventual TD to JaFatty. At the end of the day, Orton did not do anything to win it but certainly did nothing to lose it.

3) Game 16 vs. KC
Obviously on Orton (And to a lesser extent McD). Close game until mid 3rd. orton throws not one but TWO pick 6's after that. Clearly a case where Orton was a direct cause of the box score showing 44 points allowed. The real question here is does anyone envision John Fox calling 56 pass plays to 22 runs? You throw the ball that many times and picks are going to happen.

And before anyone says "What about the Philly game?" (Because it was a point loss)...Not even.

Orton was extremely efficient...tosses 3 TD's on 27 of 41 for only 171 yards passing and Prater adds 2 FG's. Orton did toss a 3rd Q INT but Philly went 3 and out. Denver actually gained 15 yards on the exchange, the INT was thrown from Philly's 40 and Denver took posession on Philly's 25 after the 3 and out. Unfortunately, the D gives up 400 yards and 30 points on a last second FG and that's that. Orton and the offense easily played well enough to win. Whoever had the ball last was going to win and it came up Philly. I think it's clear that it was close because of Orton & not in spite of him.

Last edited by HAT; 09-05-2011 at 11:09 PM..
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Old 09-05-2011, 10:09 PM   #25
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So basically your entire argument is that he doesn't really lose games?
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