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Old 09-04-2011, 01:56 PM   #1
epicSocialism4tw
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Default This 'Veterans Supporting the Veteran OB Over the Young Stud' Thing is Nothing New

Anybody remember 2006?

Are we going to see a replay of 2006 this year? Its hard to say because the personnel management has been so inconsistent.

Making it more difficult to compare is the fact that Jake Plummer had just led the Broncos to the AFC title game (had established a winning record as the same mistake-free game manager that Orton is, though he was a playmaker at times too). Orton has no such winning record in Denver.

If you all remember, the Broncos pretty much tanked after Plummer was replaced by Cutler. The vets all wanted Jake, who they all liked and fought for.

This season, the Broncos have no record of success to stand on. There is a record of below-mediocrity.

Would that mean that the Broncos would pull the trigger quicker to replace Orton as soon as Tebow started making things happen in special packages?

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Old 09-04-2011, 02:13 PM   #2
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Oh great - another tebow thread in all but name... :-)

Still, I haven't weighed in on any of the others yet soooo....

If you're comparing Jake Plummer to Kyle Orton then you have to remember that Jake pretty much threw in the towel once Cutler got drafted so the latter kind of won the starting job by default in his first year. In contrast Orton has won the job on merit and kept the kid at bay, for now.

As far as comparisons go though, I think Plummer and Tebow have more in common at this point. Plummer could scramble and improvise to make things happen, so what teams did against us was to shut down his running lanes, try to contain him, so that he had to sit in the pocket and win the game with his arm. He proved not to be too good at that type of thing.

The same would be true of Tebow at this point in time were he anointed the starter. He's proved he can make plays with his feet for sure, but teams would do everything to take that away from him untill he proves that he can also sit in the pocket and make plays with his arm based upon his knowledge of the playbook and sync with his teammates. Word from camp is that he can't do that as well as Orton yet, which is why he's #2, for now at least.

No-one was hurt more by the lack of an offseason than Tebow. I watch and wait with interest however as his intangibles and work ethic are supposedly second to none which may give him a shot...we'll see.

The vets, however, will always side with a guy they know can play. They won't lobby for a guy to lose his job unless he really stinks it up. That's nothing new....
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
If you're comparing Jake Plummer to Kyle Orton then you have to remember that Jake pretty much threw in the towel once Cutler got drafted so the latter kind of won the starting job by default in his first year. In contrast Orton has won the job on merit and kept the kid at bay, for now.
Actually, everyone raved about the job that Plummer did in camp that year, with almost word for word similarities with how they have raved about Orton this year. Proof is in the pudding.


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The vets, however, will always side with a guy they know can play. They won't lobby for a guy to lose his job unless he really stinks it up. That's nothing new....

NFL vets don't view the game as a game. They view it as a job. They will be as conservative as possible, to protect themselves. Despite Jake Plummer being the worst QB in the league that year, there was bitter resentment when Jake was benched.

Of course, as soon as that happened several other things that were not working suddenly started to - Scheffler and Marshall began to emerge, and things that were working, stopped (Javon Walker).

It's a mixed bag. Orton doesn't have as much room to fool around as Plummer did. If Orton goes and gives his usual Raiders performance next monday, he may not be the starting QB for long.

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Old 09-04-2011, 02:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epicSocialism4tw View Post
Anybody remember 2006?

Are we going to see a replay of 2006 this year? Its hard to say because the personnel management has been so inconsistent.

Making it more difficult to compare is the fact that Jake Plummer had just led the Broncos to the AFC title game (had established a winning record as the same mistake-free game manager that Orton is, though he was a playmaker at times too). Orton has no such winning record in Denver.

If you all remember, the Broncos pretty much tanked after Plummer was replaced by Cutler. The vets all wanted Jake, who they all liked and fought for.

This season, the Broncos have no record of success to stand on. There is a record of below-mediocrity.

Would that mean that the Broncos would pull the trigger quicker to replace Orton as soon as Tebow started making things happen in special packages?
Apparently people have forgotten the poor play by Jake which culminated in one of the worst football performances I have ever seen vs KFC on Thanksgiving night.

Jake had all the shots to keep his job but he just didn't care. He forced Shanny to trade up and get Cutler by not showing for OTA's.

If Orton plays well he should start if Timbo wins the job and is the better QB then he should start.

It is about putting the best QB on the field.
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:45 PM   #5
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Sure it's happened before, but this happens more often:

3rd string QB never becomes starting QB, never gains support of veterans.
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:47 PM   #6
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In contrast Orton has won the job on merit
This remains debatable
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:48 PM   #7
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This remains debatable
Oh?
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:51 PM   #8
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Oh?
You've been in enough threads to know it as well
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:53 PM   #9
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of course, efx gave the job to orton just to piss off all the tebowites ... it's clear. now this thread can go 100 pages.
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Old 09-04-2011, 05:50 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by broncosteven View Post
Apparently people have forgotten the poor play by Jake which culminated in one of the worst football performances I have ever seen vs KFC on Thanksgiving night.

Jake had all the shots to keep his job but he just didn't care. He forced Shanny to trade up and get Cutler by not showing for OTA's.

If Orton plays well he should start if Timbo wins the job and is the better QB then he should start.

It is about putting the best QB on the field.
I would argue that Orton's bed-soiling against Oakland and the pant-leg-pissing against KC was far worse than anything that Jake ever did in Denver.

People forget...Jake at least led the Broncos to the playoffs, and ultimately a playoff win. Orton has absolutely zero in terms of skins on the wall here. Nothing.

That Oakland loss was literally the most humiliating loss since the 1989 superbowl. It was pathetic. Orton was right at the heart of it.
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Old 09-04-2011, 06:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by epicSocialism4tw View Post
I would argue that Orton's bed-soiling against Oakland and the pant-leg-pissing against KC was far worse than anything that Jake ever did in Denver.

People forget...Jake at least led the Broncos to the playoffs, and ultimately a playoff win. Orton has absolutely zero in terms of skins on the wall here. Nothing.

That Oakland loss was literally the most humiliating loss since the 1989 superbowl. It was pathetic. Orton was right at the heart of it.

Yes, had he put another 7 touchdowns on the board we'd have won.....
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Old 09-04-2011, 06:49 PM   #12
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If Ortonb the reason Broncos are losing don't kid yourself, the vets will be ready for Tebow. Fox made the safe choice in going with Orton first and I think it was a smart move. What would set Tebow back is to have a rift in the team while he tries to learn the position. Let's let Fox teach the new system to the players, let Orton be the QB, and try and get better. If Orton is blowing it Fox has shown throughout his career as a head coach he will yank QBs and start the bkup.
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:22 PM   #13
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Yes, had he put another 7 touchdowns on the board we'd have won.....
Or not thrown a pick six to start the game and then go fetal and drop he ball inside his own 20 or picked up a first down to either swap field position or give the D a chance to regroup. But I get it; Orton's become infallible in this laughable group.
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Old 09-04-2011, 07:24 PM   #14
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If Ortonb the reason Broncos are losing don't kid yourself, the vets will be ready for Tebow. Fox made the safe choice in going with Orton first and I think it was a smart move. What would set Tebow back is to have a rift in the team while he tries to learn the position. Let's let Fox teach the new system to the players, let Orton be the QB, and try and get better. If Orton is blowing it Fox has shown throughout his career as a head coach he will yank QBs and start the bkup.
That's just the thing; Orton won't appear to blow it. Instead he'll trickle along and do nothing to win.

In other words. Orton won't appear to be the reason we're losing, but he'll be the reason we aren't winning.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
If Ortonb the reason Broncos are losing don't kid yourself, the vets will be ready for Tebow. Fox made the safe choice in going with Orton first and I think it was a smart move. What would set Tebow back is to have a rift in the team while he tries to learn the position. Let's let Fox teach the new system to the players, let Orton be the QB, and try and get better. If Orton is blowing it Fox has shown throughout his career as a head coach he will yank QBs and start the bkup.
As long as Orton is getting Lloyd over 1000K yards this season and making the other guys occasionally get on sportscenter, the team will be fine.

The biggest indictment of this team is their general contentment with losing.

Orton should have been on his knees begging the fans for forgiveness after that Oakland game last season. That was AT HOME! That dude let Oakland come into our house and just waltz from endzone to endzone unimpeded. And Orton has the nerve to say that he doesn't care what the fans think and that he's just playing for himself? Apparently the dude just likes collecting a paycheck and has no intentions of playing competitive football here.

I have no love for that type of player. He can go earn a paycheck and yank the chains of some other fanbase. Hit the road.
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Old 09-04-2011, 08:06 PM   #16
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Yes, had he put another 7 touchdowns on the board we'd have won.....
Had he been able to occasionally accomplish more than three-and-outs, pick 6's, and fumbles, then he may have been able to keep the 7 touchdown spread closer to 1.
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