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Old 09-02-2011, 11:44 PM   #1
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Default IMO, We should trade Orton ASAP

I believe that if the goal is to win a championship, the best thing this team can do is trade Orton before the trade deadline. Further, I think that not moving him is a huge step backwards (over the long term route to the trophy).

I like Orton, and if the goal is to just get to 8-8 this season, then sure, keep him around. But if we're looking at the long term, he needs to be moved.

1. We're not going to get anything for Brady Quinn. He showed once again vs. Arizona in a game with relatively little pressure that he is not up to being a starting level pro quarterback. He's a backup at best - which is not a bad asset for us to have - a "no threat" asset who can plug a hole if you need him to and allow your starter to feel like he's not got anyone breathing down his neck.

2. Orton isn't coming back next year without a serious offer. Denver fans treat the guy like garbage. The fans want Tebow. Orton is the better pure quarterback on this team by a long shot, and probably gives us the best chance to win the most amount of games this year (I say "probably" because Tebow has the X factor), but winning games with Orton this year does us no good when he walks to any number of AFC teams that are looking for quarterbacks next season.

3. We should not chance losing Adam Weber. We need all the young quarterbacks we can get right now, and next season we're looking at losing both Orton and Quinn to free agency.

The Denver Broncos should:

1) Move Orton as quickly as possible while his value is at its absolute peak (he's got nowhere to go but down from this point each and every week - this team is not deep and it's going to hurt Kyle's value as the season progresses).

2) Keep Brady Quinn as a backup. I hate it, you hate it, but he's got no trade value, and cutting him at this point is a huge waste.

3) Start Tebow and let him sink or swim. With a full season, we'll know whether or not we should be drafting a QB next year in the first round or the third round.

4) Keep Adam Weber on the active Roster as #3 and keep him involved.

5) Draft a QB in the first or the third round of next year depending on how Tebow does. Either way, with Brady on his way out, we'll need someone.

I want to make it clear that this take is not an indictment on Orton. I like the guy. He's a solid guy. But he's not coming back to Denver. You can see it in his interviews. He hates it here. He isn't appreciated. He's got Tebow hovering over his shoulder. I'm pretty sure that Elway isn't going to want to give him a big enough contract to make him want to stick around - and even if he did the fans would hold it against him. I think we all know that the guy is going to be booed in Denver before September is through, and Tebow's name is going to be chanted. It's not fair, but that's life.

Imagine we keep Orton, and cut Quinn... And let's say we go 8-8 with the guy - hell let's say we go 10-6. And then we lose Orton to Free Agency. How are we any better off than if we were to move Orton now?

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Old 09-02-2011, 11:48 PM   #2
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If they were smart, they would have traded Orton to Miami without even consulting him and letting him throw a wrench in the deal.
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:55 PM   #3
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Repped. I agree.... I'll post a longer response later, but I just took an Ambien cause I have golf practice early tomorrow morning.
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:57 PM   #4
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If they were smart, they would have traded Orton to Miami without even consulting him and letting him throw a wrench in the deal.
Both teams had to sign off on the deal, and Miami didn't want a 1 yr rental either... They tried to talk extension and talks broke down.

As for the OP, would you really trade a 10-6 season w/ Orton for a year of experience w/ Tebow? In preseason, we talk like there's little difference between 8-8 and 4-12, but on a weekly basis, losing sucks. I'd gladly watch Tebow on the bench and Orton walk next year for a potential playoff run @10-6 (your words not mine, i see them 8-8 at best)
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Old 09-02-2011, 11:57 PM   #5
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Repped. I agree.... I'll post a longer response later, but I just took an Ambien cause I have golf practice early tomorrow morning.
You should draw yourself a map to the toilet so you don't drop a load in the basement.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:02 AM   #6
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The problem is who is going to want Kyle Orton this late in the game. At this point teams are just going to roll with what they have. You think the Miami Dolphins aren't thinking about the same "Suck for Luck" campaign?
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:16 AM   #7
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There is a reason why Taco runs the greatest website on the internet. This guy is a smart man.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:20 AM   #8
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8-8 would be a HUGE improvement over last year. The Broncos don't seem to be in a hurry to extend Orton's contract. That says that he is likely gone, after this season. Give the offensive line a year to gel, and Tebow MAY be scary good, next year. Right now, he seems tentative when the protection breaks down. I don't see the harm in waiting one more year for Tebow, until he figures out the pace of the NFL game...
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:27 AM   #9
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I agree with TJ on this one we should do it. I'm not so sure FO will with Quinn flopping though.

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Old 09-03-2011, 12:29 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I believe that if the goal is to win a championship, the best thing this team can do is trade Orton before the trade deadline. Further, I think that not moving him is a huge step backwards (over the long term route to the trophy).

I like Orton, and if the goal is to just get to 8-8 this season, then sure, keep him around. But if we're looking at the long term, he needs to be moved.

1. We're not going to get anything for Brady Quinn. He showed once again vs. Arizona in a game with relatively little pressure that he is not up to being a starting level pro quarterback. He's a backup at best - which is not a bad asset for us to have - a "no threat" asset who can plug a hole if you need him to and allow your starter to feel like he's not got anyone breathing down his neck.

2. Orton isn't coming back next year without a serious offer. Denver fans treat the guy like garbage. The fans want Tebow. Orton is the better pure quarterback on this team by a long shot, and probably gives us the best chance to win the most amount of games this year (I say "probably" because Tebow has the X factor), but winning games with Orton this year does us no good when he walks to any number of AFC teams that are looking for quarterbacks next season.

3. We should not chance losing Adam Weber. We need all the young quarterbacks we can get right now, and next season we're looking at losing both Orton and Quinn to free agency.

The Denver Broncos should:

1) Move Orton as quickly as possible while his value is at its absolute peak (he's got nowhere to go but down from this point each and every week - this team is not deep and it's going to hurt Kyle's value as the season progresses).

2) Keep Brady Quinn as a backup. I hate it, you hate it, but he's got no trade value, and cutting him at this point is a huge waste.

3) Start Tebow and let him sink or swim. With a full season, we'll know whether or not we should be drafting a QB next year in the first round or the third round.

4) Keep Adam Weber on the active Roster as #3 and keep him involved.

5) Draft a QB in the first or the third round of next year depending on how Tebow does. Either way, with Brady on his way out, we'll need someone.

I want to make it clear that this take is not an indictment on Orton. I like the guy. He's a solid guy. But he's not coming back to Denver. You can see it in his interviews. He hates it here. He isn't appreciated. He's got Tebow hovering over his shoulder. I'm pretty sure that Elway isn't going to want to give him a big enough contract to make him want to stick around - and even if he did the fans would hold it against him. I think we all know that the guy is going to be booed in Denver before September is through, and Tebow's name is going to be chanted. It's not fair, but that's life.

Imagine we keep Orton, and cut Quinn... And let's say we go 8-8 with the guy - hell let's say we go 10-6. And then we lose Orton to Free Agency. How are we any better off than if we were to move Orton now?
No other team's gonna give us much value for Orton, Quinn or Tebow at this point in time. Orton's contract is problematic for a trade and both Quinn and Tebow looked abysmal last night. And trading Orton for a day-old bologna sandwich = "an unearned promotion" for one of the backups. Then we'd face the question of: Quinn or Tebow? "I" think this might throw the locker room into total chaos...
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:32 AM   #11
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No other team's gonna give us much value for Orton, Quinn or Tebow at this point in time. Orton's contract is problematic for a trade and both Quinn and Tebow looked abysmal last night. And trading Orton for a day-old bologna sandwich = "an unearned promotion" for one of the backups. Then we'd face the question of: Quinn or Tebow? "I" think this might throw the locker room into total chaos...
I agree with this too
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:41 AM   #12
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No other team's gonna give us much value for Orton, Quinn or Tebow at this point in time. Orton's contract is problematic for a trade and both Quinn and Tebow looked abysmal last night. And trading Orton for a day-old bologna sandwich = "an unearned promotion" for one of the backups. Then we'd face the question of: Quinn or Tebow? "I" think this might throw the locker room into total chaos...
There would be no question of Quinn or Tebow.

Quinn is probably a gnats butt away from the chopping block right now.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:51 AM   #13
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It's a mute point. It's too late. We'll probably get a compensation pick that's as good as anybody is willing to offer in a trade anyway. I think the Broncos plan is to play Orton this year and hope he plays well enough so that when he becomes a FA, he is able to sign a decent contract with somebody. The better his contract, the better the compensation pick we get. That's how I see this thing going anyway.
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:52 AM   #14
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There would be no question of Quinn or Tebow.

Quinn is probably a gnats butt away from the chopping block right now.
Outside of one good play, Tebow was also abysmal last night. He certainly didn't win a starting role with that performance against Arizona's backups (Quinn was playing their starters).
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Old 09-03-2011, 12:59 AM   #15
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Right now, Tebow sucks as an NFL starting QB. He'll be fine against crappy teams, but will struggle greatly against the good defenses. I know, I know you're thinking every rookie does. But trade a serviceable QB in Orton to move Tebow into action before he's ready? For what, a 3rd instead of a 5th?

Sit Tebow this year, let him learn. Start Orton and we'll see what he's really made of. If Orton plays well this year then it's his team and we can find another roll for Tebow. If Orton sinks then we can move Tebow into the starting roll when he's ready.

Starting Tebow this year is a HUGE mistake.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:03 AM   #16
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Outside of one good play, Tebow was also abysmal last night. He certainly didn't win a starting role with that performance against Arizona's backups (Quinn was playing their starters).
That's a strange world to live in where a 130 QB rating is 'abysmal'.

Quinn's rating was under 10, which apparently was excuseable while Tebow's 130 rating was 'abysmal'.

Odd.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:07 AM   #17
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Right now, Tebow sucks as an NFL starting QB. He'll be fine against crappy teams, but will struggle greatly against the good defenses. I know, I know you're thinking every rookie does. But trade a serviceable QB in Orton to move Tebow into action before he's ready? For what, a 3rd instead of a 5th?

Sit Tebow this year, let him learn. Start Orton and we'll see what he's really made of. If Orton plays well this year then it's his team and we can find another roll for Tebow. If Orton sinks then we can move Tebow into the starting roll when he's ready.

Starting Tebow this year is a HUGE mistake.
I honestly think that the difference in production between Tebow and Orton would be marginal at best, while Tebow has potential to be exceptionally more productive this season.

Orton is the same Orton from last season and the season before. We know what he is, and we know that its not good enough.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:10 AM   #18
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But trade a serviceable QB in Orton to move Tebow into action before he's ready?
I want to make it clear that I see moving Orton as a move only to get as much value as we can out of our quarterback situation before we lose all of the value that we've invested to this point (from Cutler to Hillis et al). It has nothing to do with moving Tebow into action - though that would be a result of trading Orton. We're going to lose both Orton and Brady and risk seeing absolutely ZERO on return toward our goal of winning a championship.

My other suggestion, would be to offer Kyle a contract extension ASAP. I'm not sure how comfortable the braintrust would be in doing that right now. I'm certain, however, that I know how the fanbase would react to it. I'm pretty certain that I know how Orton's agent would react to it as well.



Quote:
Sit Tebow this year, let him learn.
What do you think Tebow is going to learn sitting on the sidelines? Why would we want the guy to sit on the sidelines anyway unless the plan is to develop him for the long term? Is that the plan? I don't think it is. I, frankly, don't think that there is a Tebow plan.

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Start Orton and we'll see what he's really made of. If Orton plays well this year then it's his team and we can find another roll for Tebow. If Orton sinks then we can move Tebow into the starting roll when he's ready.
Who doesn't already know what Orton is made of? And even if Orton plays well for us this year, it's only to boost his free agency value, which does us no good.

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Old 09-03-2011, 01:11 AM   #19
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If they were smart, they would have traded Orton to Miami without even consulting him and letting him throw a wrench in the deal.
Agreed. But Orton could choose to not play ala Plummer and we get Jack.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:22 AM   #20
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That's a strange world to live in where a 130 QB rating is 'abysmal'.

Quinn's rating was under 10, which apparently was excuseable while Tebow's 130 rating was 'abysmal'.

Odd.
Let's get real. Tebow put up a single TD vs. Arizona's (not an elite team in the NFL) backups. Oh... and please show me where I excused Quinn while also categorizing his performance as "abysmal'.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:24 AM   #21
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By the way - the front office would never do this because of the message it would send: "we're playing for next year, not this year." But frankly, we're not going to win more than 8 games this year with our depth, and as far as I can tell, that's a high estimate. Our starters can compete if healthy, but our depth is very shallow, and our quarterback situation over the long term is pretty shakey. I'm looking for ways to minimize the bleeding over the long term, not treat a short term symptom. I'd rather see us get through as much of the pain as quickly as possible rather than extending it over multiple seasons. I think you do that by swallowing the medicine and trading Orton now and frankly, throwing Tebow to the wolves.

I understand this isn't going to happen, but I think it would be better than losing all the value we've invested in both Orton and Quinn, and being left with the Tebow question mark hanging over our heads for another offseason.

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Old 09-03-2011, 01:29 AM   #22
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Problem is that Orton probably thinks he should be getting Kolb money, and no team in the NFL is going to give it to him.

He'll want to play this year, have a great season and prove that he deserves the big contract.

Only way we can move him is if it's to a team looking for a one year rental while they develop their rookie. (Bengals, Titans, Panthers, Jags maybe?) And teams aren't going to give up much more than a 5th round for a mediocre one year rental.

I'd still do it and see what Tebow has. Either he plays great and we have our QBOTF or he sucks and we get a better shot at Luck. Seems a win-win to me.

No way our FO is going to do it though, and I'm not sure I understand why.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:29 AM   #23
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Outside of one good play, Tebow was also abysmal last night. 2. He certainly didn't win a starting role with that performance against Arizona's backups (1. Quinn was playing their starters).

1. For a series.

2. He did get the team on the board, and got them in FG range...well Prater's FG range.

Considering the lack of depth along the o-line it is not shocking Quinn and Tebow had a rough go of it. Of the two, Tebow managed to put a scoring drive together. When Tebow settled down, the offense moved the ball, which is something people have been crying he "cant" do. I dont think Orton is going anywhere this year, and from what I have seen a year to work on Tebow's footwork would only help him.

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Old 09-03-2011, 01:30 AM   #24
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Let's get real. Tebow put up a single TD vs. Arizona's (not an elite team in the NFL) backups.
That's 'getting real'?

You said that Tebow 'made one good play'.

That's extreme hyperbole that should make anyone who reads that opinion a little skeptical of your intentions...because your observation is not true to life.

Dude had a 130 QB rating despite being constantly under seige.
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Old 09-03-2011, 01:30 AM   #25
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Agreed. But Orton could choose to not play ala Plummer and we get Jack.
No way in hell he does that.

He's desperate for a big contract, and this year is his chance to show teams he's worth it. No doubt he'd rather play in Denver because he knows the offense and receivers... but if we trade him he'll have no choice but to suck it up and play.
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