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Old 08-27-2011, 04:24 PM   #1
epicSocialism4tw
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Default After All These Years, DT Still a Problem

The BBT have addressed the defensive tackle issues by signing Ty Warren (who is now lost for the year), trading for Broderick Bunkley, re-signing Vickerson and Thomas, and filling out the camp roster with retreads and never-has-beens. I realize that many people are so tired of this being a constant issue, that they don't really want to even think about it any longer. But this still is an issue, and it will be a repeating theme throughout the season as the Broncos potentially lose games with their inability to stop the run and collapse the pocket up the middle. An issue compounded by the fact that the Broncos need a solid run-stuffing middle linebacker.

The Broncos chose to spend their money on Warren, who was coming off of an injury year. Now he'll miss another season. At this point, Warren should be counted as a net loss. The Broncos should not depend on him to be the cornerstone of the center of the line at any point in the future. If he ever returns to game action, great. He'd be a nice rotation player because at this point you just can't count on him to be on the field every week. But the BBT will have to address this problem again next offseason. Its really becoming a running joke with this franchise. How they expect to defend the run is anyone's guess at this point.

I like Kevin Vickerson as a rotation player...especially on passing downs. He's tall and has a knack for filling up passing lanes. He's also surprisingly athletic. I think he's actually the best player on the defensive line. He's just not the best player against the run. He's not a leverage guy. But he can occasionally beat his man and get into the backfield. He puts in the work on rushing downs but he doesn't always get results. He does, however, have an impact in the passing game pretty regularly.

Broderick Bunkley appears to be the only guy in the interior line who does a decent job holding his gap and plugging the run game a bit. In the little I have seen of him, he is inconsistent. But I think he has the potential to be the best player on the line.

Marcus Thomas should be alot better than he is. He's your classic athlete who never developed discipline in his game. He should be able to juke guards and centers out of their pads, but he just doesn't have the moves.

So really, we're right back to where we started from.

We have a few middling situational pieces (Vick, Bunk, Thomas), but we don't have the stud pair you need to depend on over the course of the season. The Broncos need two big time DT's. That means that the next draft will have that position as the primary need. Unfortunately, the odds of getting a shot at a Dareus are slim. The Broncos are likely to be a middle-of-the-pack outfit this season, and next years draft wont have a Phil Taylor (who looks fantastic in preseason) available as late as he was this season.

We know that the Broncos are going the cheap route in free agency, and we shouldn't expect that they actually go out and acquire a player who will make an impact. It will probably have to happen through the draft.

Will the Broncos ever be a team with a solid run defense if they don't invest in the positions that form the cornerstones for run defense?

The two biggest needs for Denver in the next draft: DT, MLB.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:28 PM   #2
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I am glad you pointed this out.... not like I haven't seen 100's of the same post the past 3 years +
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:30 PM   #3
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I am glad you pointed this out.... not like I haven't seen 100's of the same post the past 3 years +
If you were paying attention, you would have seen them for the past 6+ years.

That's kind of the point.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:32 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by epicSocialism4tw View Post
The BBT have addressed the defensive tackle issues by signing Ty Warren (who is now lost for the year), trading for Broderick Bunkley, re-signing Vickerson and Thomas, and filling out the camp roster with retreads and never-has-beens. I realize that many people are so tired of this being a constant issue, that they don't really want to even think about it any longer. But this still is an issue, and it will be a repeating theme throughout the season as the Broncos potentially lose games with their inability to stop the run and collapse the pocket up the middle. An issue compounded by the fact that the Broncos need a solid run-stuffing middle linebacker.

The Broncos chose to spend their money on Warren, who was coming off of an injury year. Now he'll miss another season. At this point, Warren should be counted as a net loss. The Broncos should not depend on him to be the cornerstone of the center of the line at any point in the future. If he ever returns to game action, great. He'd be a nice rotation player because at this point you just can't count on him to be on the field every week. But the BBT will have to address this problem again next offseason. Its really becoming a running joke with this franchise. How they expect to defend the run is anyone's guess at this point.

I like Kevin Vickerson as a rotation player...especially on passing downs. He's tall and has a knack for filling up passing lanes. He's also surprisingly athletic. I think he's actually the best player on the defensive line. He's just not the best player against the run. He's not a leverage guy. But he can occasionally beat his man and get into the backfield. He puts in the work on rushing downs but he doesn't always get results. He does, however, have an impact in the passing game pretty regularly.

Broderick Bunkley appears to be the only guy in the interior line who does a decent job holding his gap and plugging the run game a bit. In the little I have seen of him, he is inconsistent. But I think he has the potential to be the best player on the line.

Marcus Thomas should be alot better than he is. He's your classic athlete who never developed discipline in his game. He should be able to juke guards and centers out of their pads, but he just doesn't have the moves.

So really, we're right back to where we started from.

We have a few middling situational pieces (Vick, Bunk, Thomas), but we don't have the stud pair you need to depend on over the course of the season. The Broncos need two big time DT's. That means that the next draft will have that position as the primary need. Unfortunately, the odds of getting a shot at a Dareus are slim. The Broncos are likely to be a middle-of-the-pack outfit this season, and next years draft wont have a Phil Taylor (who looks fantastic in preseason) available as late as he was this season.

We know that the Broncos are going the cheap route in free agency, and we shouldn't expect that they actually go out and acquire a player who will make an impact. It will probably have to happen through the draft.

Will the Broncos ever be a team with a solid run defense if they don't invest in the positions that form the cornerstones for run defense?

The two biggest needs for Denver in the next draft: DT, MLB.
not so sure about MLB as the Broncos just drafted the guy from NCState. But yes, the Broncos need to draft some good young interior DT talent, this is a well established fact.

As for FA, it's never going to be the answer anyway. The Broncos need to use FA as a filler when they are not able to develop talent through the draft.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:35 PM   #5
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not so sure about MLB as the Broncos just drafted the guy from NCState. But yes, the Broncos need to draft some good young interior DT talent, this is a well established fact.

As for FA, it's never going to be the answer anyway. The Broncos need to use FA as a filler when they are not able to develop talent through the draft.
What really sucks is that the Broncos had a shot at two solid young DT's this offseason, one of which is a dependable run-stuffer. They both signed relatively cheap deals with other teams and the Broncos are still sitting on a mountain of cap space.

They had the opportunity to fix the issue for the next 3-5 years this offseason and chose not to do it, but instead to roll the dice on Ty Warren after their other options had been exhausted.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:45 PM   #6
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What really sucks is that the Broncos had a shot at two solid young DT's this offseason, one of which is a dependable run-stuffer. They both signed relatively cheap deals with other teams and the Broncos are still sitting on a mountain of cap space.

They had the opportunity to fix the issue for the next 3-5 years this offseason and chose not to do it, but instead to roll the dice on Ty Warren after their other options had been exhausted.
yah, I'm more disappointed in the Broncos FA moves (or lack of FA moves) than the draft. With the draft, they got talent on the defense. Sure, they passed on drafting an interior DL guy but they could have gotten more aggressive in FA to fill those needs.

But they did bring in Bunkley so who knows? Perhaps this is the year he gets is crap together.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:53 PM   #7
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But they did bring in Bunkley so who knows? Perhaps this is the year he gets is crap together.
The Broncos have been depending on those types of situations for far too long.

You have to wonder why they refuse to address the position with consistent players instead of scrap heap bargains that may or may not pan out. Even Warren is somewhat of a scrap heap bargain. Not much of a bargain anymore, but they were counting on him to play above his contract.

At some point, you have to conclude that this is some sort of organizational philosophy. And they haven't learned that the philosophy is a failure. You just don't gamble and hope that you win the house. The house always wins.

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Old 08-27-2011, 05:01 PM   #8
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This year it was especially egregious because an above average young 4-3 starter could have been had for what the team paid for a blocking tight-end a few years ago.
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:07 PM   #9
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They got Ayers at DT. It's all good.
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:07 PM   #10
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This year it was especially egregious because an above average young 4-3 starter could have been had for what the team paid for a blocking tight-end a few years ago.
Agreed.

And that's why this is such a head-scratcher.
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:34 PM   #11
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All I'm banking at this point is on Fox's defensive scheme.
Let's hope out of those nobodies we've got, that someone would find this scheme to be the perfect fit to match his/their potential.

We've been exposed at the run defense. We need to show improvement there tonight...

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Old 08-27-2011, 05:39 PM   #12
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It's pretty frustrating..tired of getting man handled at the LOS. Getting gashed for 20+ yards...our run D has been a joke for as long as i can remember.
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:41 PM   #13
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It's pretty frustrating..tired of getting man handled at the LOS. Getting gashed for 20+ yards...our run D has been a joke for as long as i can remember.
Even when we had Trevor Pryce in there the franchise wouldnt invest in quality DT's. The BBT were even disliked by Pryce.
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:42 PM   #14
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Several DT's better than anything on the roster now passed by in the 2009 and 2010 drafts while McClueless furiously wasted picks and effort on finding replacements for players he traded.

The Broncos could've had a halfway decent defense by now, but I guess rebuilding a whole roster is always easier than rebuilding half a roster...
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:07 PM   #15
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What really sucks is that the Broncos had a shot at two solid young DT's this offseason, one of which is a dependable run-stuffer. They both signed relatively cheap deals with other teams and the Broncos are still sitting on a mountain of cap space.

They had the opportunity to fix the issue for the next 3-5 years this offseason and chose not to do it, but instead to roll the dice on Ty Warren after their other options had been exhausted.
You mean Austin who in now injured?? That means missing out on Moore and Franklin as well. Lets see how your two projected prospects and the two we got pan out over the next few years before feeling so shortchanged.
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:09 PM   #16
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You mean Austin who in now injured?? That means missing out on Moore and Franklin as well. Lets see how your two projected prospects and the two we got pan out over the next few years before feeling so shortchanged.
No, I was referring to Mebane, Coefield, or Franlkin...suggesting that the Broncos could have added two solid starting DT's to the rotation immediately who could have solved the problem for a good 3-5 years.
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:09 PM   #17
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You get what you pay for.
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