The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-18-2011, 11:02 PM   #1
broncs2bowl
Ring of Famer
 
broncs2bowl's Avatar
 
^Club of Death^

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,220

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default OT: The Rutgers Suicide Issue

I'm sure many of you are aware of what happend this past year with the Rutgers Suicide Scandal.
A young man named Tyler Clementi committed suicide after realizing a video was streamed of him in his dorm during his most intimate moment with his boyfriend. The two charged of video taping were Dharun Ravi and Molly Wei from Plainsboro, NJ. Dharun Ravi was the one who had actually tweeted the information of what Tyler was doing to everyone and was the mastermind of the camera as well as the whole situation. Molly Wei was simply the room in which Ravi decided to view his webcam.

I just wanted to know different peoples thoughts on this situation even if the news might be kind of old. It is still offseason!

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/21/ny...ref=dharunravi

Last edited by broncs2bowl; 07-18-2011 at 11:06 PM..
broncs2bowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-18-2011, 11:23 PM   #2
broncocalijohn
Famer of Rings
 
broncocalijohn's Avatar
 
I said Do It!

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lake Forest, Orange County, Calif.
Posts: 22,397

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Simon Fletcher
Default

Going for the touchy, feel good story are you broncs2bowl?
broncocalijohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 11:25 PM   #3
broncs2bowl
Ring of Famer
 
broncs2bowl's Avatar
 
^Club of Death^

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,220

Adopt-a-Bronco:
DJ Williams
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by broncocalijohn View Post
Going for the touchy, feel good story are you broncs2bowl?
I actually happen to know both Ravi and Wei....and liked them for the time i had known them.
broncs2bowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 11:35 PM   #4
broncocalijohn
Famer of Rings
 
broncocalijohn's Avatar
 
I said Do It!

Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Lake Forest, Orange County, Calif.
Posts: 22,397

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Simon Fletcher
Default

Well, the dude did a pretty mean thing and lucky his roomie killed himself instead of killed your buddy. Only thing they can get him on is unathorized filming I guess. But, such an old story and has been discussed. Are they going to court or something to actually bring this up months later?
broncocalijohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 11:42 PM   #5
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

A hate crime? That is a stretch IMO. I think they are guilty of something but, really it's a very hard case to think about.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2011, 11:51 PM   #6
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,653
Default

The dude who did the filming is more or less responsible for the death of another human being.

And for what its worth, I hate the term hate crime. Murder is not exactly a crime of love. If you kill someone intentionally, you had to hate them to do it. Seems redundant to say "hate crime".

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:01 AM   #7
vancejohnson82
Shabby
 
vancejohnson82's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hawthorne, NJ
Posts: 6,103

Adopt-a-Bronco:
All 8 Points
Default

its 2nd degree murder...I live in Newark, this was a really big deal last year and Rutgers did a great job of shutting down some of the PR
vancejohnson82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:12 AM   #8
bronco0608
Ring of Famer
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,276

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vancejohnson82 View Post
its 2nd degree murder...I live in Newark, this was a really big deal last year and Rutgers did a great job of shutting down some of the PR
2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.
bronco0608 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:16 AM   #9
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
The dude who did the filming is more or less responsible for the death of another human being.

And for what its worth, I hate the term hate crime. Murder is not exactly a crime of love. If you kill someone intentionally, you had to hate them to do it. Seems redundant to say "hate crime".

This is why I think it's hard case. I wouldn't call it murder but I agree that without the other guys actions odds are he wouldn't have killed himself (99.9999% sure he wouldn't have).

Now days with the cyber bullies and like this case they need a new term and new laws IMO.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:16 AM   #10
Archer81
Optimum Homo
 
Archer81's Avatar
 
Tactical Neck.

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 22,653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco0608 View Post
2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.

He wouldnt have if he was not pushed to it.

Archer81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:24 AM   #11
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco0608 View Post
2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.
Really it's not much different then buying beer for a minor and they end up dying. Your actions played a pretty large part with them being dead.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 12:52 AM   #12
vancejohnson82
Shabby
 
vancejohnson82's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hawthorne, NJ
Posts: 6,103

Adopt-a-Bronco:
All 8 Points
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Really it's not much different then buying beer for a minor and they end up dying. Your actions played a pretty large part with them being dead.
exactly...its a direct action leading to the death of another

maybe manslaughter? I dont know....depends on how the case goes i guess
vancejohnson82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:06 AM   #13
NUB
Just Crafted
 
NUB's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,529

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Depends on how malicious his intentions were I would think.
NUB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:10 AM   #14
myMind
splinters reality until
 
myMind's Avatar
 
We Grok

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,558

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Sad, no matter whats happens after the fact.
Not too long ago, the punishment for the equivalent of this voyeur's crimes would be severe.
The anonymity found in technology muddies the waters of morality and personal accountabilty.
myMind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:33 AM   #15
ZachKC
For The Glory Of The City
 
ZachKC's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 9,852

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eddie Kennison
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirhcyennek81 View Post
He wouldnt have if he was not pushed to it.

I hope none of your posts upset me so much that I decide to off myself.

In your world you would be in serious trouble. I never would have done it if you had not pushed me by posting.
ZachKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 01:52 AM   #16
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachKC View Post
I hope none of your posts upset me so much that I decide to off myself.

In your world you would be in serious trouble. I never would have done it if you had not pushed me by posting.
Not even close to the same thing and you ****ing know it.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 02:17 AM   #17
ZachKC
For The Glory Of The City
 
ZachKC's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 9,852

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eddie Kennison
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Not even close to the same thing and you ****ing know it.
I disagree...it is an exaggeration but not even close? I disagree.

He put the whole case on the eggshell nature of the inside of the victims head.
ZachKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 02:27 AM   #18
ZachKC
For The Glory Of The City
 
ZachKC's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 9,852

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eddie Kennison
Default

This is a post from Chiefs Planet I made last year when this happened.

This is an interesting issue the more I think about it...

Nothing points to the kid being a complete soulless bastard. I think everyone is assuming had he known the recuperations of what he did he wouldn't have done it.

With that assumption...

Where is the line between your actions effecting someone no matter what that intent and someone letting that action take them to their grave.

What if I had some crazy thing in my head where Pez drove me bat **** crazy. Made me depressed and angry. My roomie loves Pez and eats it anyway. I kill myself. Him having that Pez was the catalyst for my death. I wouldn't have done had he not been popping those lil candies but surely he can't be held liable for my Pezphobia.

Even though it seems only charges are being brought up on invasion of privacy type stuff...

This suicide isn't as silly an non nonsensical as my little made up Pez story. I have seen people I know transition from a straight lifestyle to an openly homosexual life style some of them with success and some of them not so much. The folks that seemed to do it right did it pretty slowly...it was all carefully thought out considering the social dynamics of family, close friends, and strangers. And that process was hard enough.

I could only imagine that someone who is not outed on their terms would be going through a crazy traumatic experience. You are talking about a process that I have seen take years happen in a few secs. Your identity...the way people identify you and treat you is shaken up. Total game changer.

Wacky to think about.
ZachKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 03:46 AM   #19
DBroncos4life
Hey pic Mod!?!?! FU
 
DBroncos4life's Avatar
 
Bacon bits

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: The wrong side of right.
Posts: 28,794

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Julius "Fluff"
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachKC View Post
I disagree...it is an exaggeration but not even close? I disagree.

He put the whole case on the eggshell nature of the inside of the victims head.
Which would happen first in the real world or at a college campus. Someone walking up to you and saying man you are that dude that got owned in a message board OR man you are that duded that I saw ****ing another dude?

A message board is anonymous, being filmed isn't.
DBroncos4life is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 03:57 AM   #20
ZachKC
For The Glory Of The City
 
ZachKC's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 9,852

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Eddie Kennison
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DBroncos4life View Post
Which would happen first in the real world or at a college campus. Someone walking up to you and saying man you are that dude that got owned in a message board OR man you are that duded that I saw ****ing another dude?

A message board is anonymous, being filmed isn't.
That connection means little. My problem is that the distinguishing factor is being placed in the eggshell nature of the victims head and not the intent.

I am not claiming the offending party to be innocent I am just not putting the responsibility for the death on this person. I think this person had to be pretty far towards the edge for this to be the catalyst that brings about suicide.
ZachKC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 05:24 AM   #21
Kaylore
Because I am better
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
Taysom Hill for Heisman!

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 46,351

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

I agree with Zach. It's a touchy area and what they did was cruel, but they didn't "force him to murder himself" unfortunately. I applaud the stance people are taking to stop bullying in a non-legal way. However, legally speaking, its a slippery slope when we want to punish someone for another person's suicide - even if they directly contributed, maliciously even, to that person feeling worse about themselves.
Kaylore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 05:29 AM   #22
alkemical
Guerrilla Ontologist
 
alkemical's Avatar
 
rorrim|mirror

Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Future
Posts: 43,075

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Prima Materia
Default

So what's your take on those kids that killed themselves after myspace/facebook stalking?

Ex: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Megan_Meier
alkemical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 06:04 AM   #23
RhymesayersDU
Go Broncos, Nuggets, Rox
 
RhymesayersDU's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back In The 303!
Posts: 14,992

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ty Lawson
Default

Agree with Zach. ****ty thing to do to film somebody like that, but murder? Insane. They're guilty of something, and if you want to give the kids the maximum punishment on that, fine, but they did not murder this guy, IMO.
RhymesayersDU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 06:10 AM   #24
jhns
Ring of Famer
 
but you still can't C me!

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Omaha
Posts: 12,362

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco0608 View Post
2nd degree murder? How in the world? Ravi didn't kill the gay dude. The gay dude killed himself.

They might get this kid on some obscure law, but they sure as heck aren't going to get him on a murder charge.

All I see is invasion of privacy, peeping tom stuff. Ravi will get slaughtered in a civil lawsuit, but criminal he should walk. I heard the tape isn't even that bad.

But who knows what kind of crazy law New Jersey is trying to prosecute him under.
This. The guy didn't kill the other kid. That kid had to already be pretty f'd up to be able to kill himself. The suicide is all on the kid that killed himself. The guy video taping should be in trouble for invasion of privacy/illegal recording.
jhns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2011, 06:16 AM   #25
RhymesayersDU
Go Broncos, Nuggets, Rox
 
RhymesayersDU's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back In The 303!
Posts: 14,992

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Ty Lawson
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhns View Post
That kid had to already be pretty f'd up to be able to kill himself.
See, I tend to agree with this from a common sense standpoint, but I do wonder what a psychiatrist would say about that. It could actually be an interesting discussion.
RhymesayersDU is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:11 AM.


Denver Broncos