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Old 07-11-2011, 08:19 PM   #1
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Props to brian dancers. Taking a look at the top 50 fa list with out getting to work last offseason we would have had the top 3 of 5.
Marshall- traded solid value.
dumervile- resigned
Champ- resigned
Kuper - resigned.
Orton- resigned.

We pull what sd pulled last year half those guys are gone.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:30 PM   #2
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I see where you're going. And I'm really not one to play devil's advocate, but

Isn't the Champ re-signing the only one we really have enough evidence to conclude it was absolutely the right thing to do?

I mean, I'm glad Marshall's problems are gone, but how good will he be and what did they do with what they got for him?

Orton should get decent compensation if he's traded, but we don't know. And if they let him play out the year and let him walk, was that money well spent?

It was a good move to re-sign Dumervil for a boatload of cash at the time (I think?), but now you have a guy coming off of a major injury and going in to a scheme that isn't the one he truly thrived on.

And Kuper didn't show that he's a starting guard in this league last year, let alone show he was worth a long term financial commitment.

There isn't a single player on this team, sans Champ, that can be confidently given the expectation of multi-year elite production. And Champ is unfortunately past his prime. And that's pretty damn depressing.

Last edited by Man-Goblin; 07-11-2011 at 10:32 PM..
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:51 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Man-Goblin View Post
I see where you're going. And I'm really not one to play devil's advocate, but

Isn't the Champ re-signing the only one we really have enough evidence to conclude it was absolutely the right thing to do?

I mean, I'm glad Marshall's problems are gone, but how good will he be and what did they do with what they got for him?

Orton should get decent compensation if he's traded, but we don't know. And if they let him play out the year and let him walk, was that money well spent?

It was a good move to re-sign Dumervil for a boatload of cash at the time (I think?), but now you have a guy coming off of a major injury and going in to a scheme that isn't the one he truly thrived on.

And Kuper didn't show that he's a starting guard in this league last year, let alone show he was worth a long term financial commitment.

There isn't a single player on this team, sans Champ, that can be confidently given the expectation of multi-year elite production. And Champ is unfortunately past his prime. And that's pretty damn depressing.
Exactly. I'm a downer when it comes to Champ so every player he seems to praise Xanders for has kinda had some pretty intense ups and downs. Whether any of them deserved praise (in hindsight for Doom) for being retained is up for debate.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:13 PM   #4
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good moves....

and Kuper is a starter
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:44 PM   #5
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Yeah I'm not sure how you really hold the resigning of Kuper and Dumervil against him, regardless of the lack of immediate success from either. If Dumervil hadn't been resigned people would be complaining about it nonstop due to our extreme lack of pressure without him, and if Kuper hadn't been resigned our line would be even more of a young and rebuilding project.
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:54 PM   #6
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Yup

He's really put together a championship caliber team...
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:59 PM   #7
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Yeah I'm not sure how you really hold the resigning of Kuper and Dumervil against him, regardless of the lack of immediate success from either. If Dumervil hadn't been resigned people would be complaining about it nonstop due to our extreme lack of pressure without him, and if Kuper hadn't been resigned our line would be even more of a young and rebuilding project.
Not saying he's been the worst in the business but, at the same time, if these are his major accomplishments then I see why we were picking second overall.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:14 AM   #8
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Oh I agree with that completely.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:25 AM   #9
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Everyone of those moves except for Champ's came when he was out making pizza and coffee runs.

I can't believe how fast people have forgotten who was calling the shots.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:02 AM   #10
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Yup

He's really put together a championship caliber team...
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:29 AM   #11
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I guess this is to be expected yes we sucked but this is a reckoning a long tome coming. The players we could have tendered on the cheap and lost are the answer not the problem.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:32 AM   #12
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Free agent signings are always a risk. Re-signing guys like Doom and Champ were moves he had to make, IMO, as the fanbase would have been apoplectic if he hadn't.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:37 AM   #13
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Daaaaamn this is breaking news - I was under the impression that Xanders had no power during the McD era?

And now we find out he's the one that was responsible for all of those moves? I thought he only recently had a voice in regards to the team.

Why isn't this front page on Denver Post?
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:38 AM   #14
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...at this thread
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Old 07-12-2011, 09:34 AM   #15
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Daaaaamn this is breaking news - I was under the impression that Xanders had no power during the McD era?

And now we find out he's the one that was responsible for all of those moves? I thought he only recently had a voice in regards to the team.

Why isn't this front page on Denver Post?
Wasn't he the cap and contract guy? Aren't these all contracts done in house.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:21 AM   #16
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John Elway: Cheer up - and get me a ****ing meatza!
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:13 PM   #17
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John Elway: Cheer up - and get me a ****ing meatza!
That pic is f--king priceless. Especially considering it was taken at the Elway introductory presser. It makes me giggle every time I see it.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:18 PM   #18
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That pic is f--king priceless. Especially considering it was taken at the Elway introductory presser. It makes me giggle every time I see it.
...wait

Seriously?

That's the context?!?!

OMFG
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:30 PM   #19
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...wait

Seriously?

That's the context?!?!

OMFG
http://www.daylife.com/photo/0eIubVE2SU2OQ?q=John+Elway

It's quite possibly the funniest picture I can remember, given the context. Worth beyond a thousand words.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:12 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Man-Goblin View Post
I see where you're going. And I'm really not one to play devil's advocate, but

Isn't the Champ re-signing the only one we really have enough evidence to conclude it was absolutely the right thing to do?

I mean, I'm glad Marshall's problems are gone, but how good will he be and what did they do with what they got for him?

Orton should get decent compensation if he's traded, but we don't know. And if they let him play out the year and let him walk, was that money well spent?

It was a good move to re-sign Dumervil for a boatload of cash at the time (I think?), but now you have a guy coming off of a major injury and going in to a scheme that isn't the one he truly thrived on.

And Kuper didn't show that he's a starting guard in this league last year, let alone show he was worth a long term financial commitment.

There isn't a single player on this team, sans Champ, that can be confidently given the expectation of multi-year elite production. And Champ is unfortunately past his prime. And that's pretty damn depressing.
WTF are you talking about? He played as well as you could expect having rookies on both sides of him for the majority of the season. I watch the O-line every game and isolate specifically on the interior and critique the game with a couple of guys who played in the league for 20 years between them. They didn't sign him to the contract because he was the only guy they could find, they looked at ALL of his work and made an offer that is on the low end for a starter. The 7 mil he gets paid this year is the guaranteed money that he deserves for playing at the league minimum and making ALL of the escalators in his previous contract except pro bowl which everyone knows is a popularity contest. If it wasn't then he would have made it 2 years ago when he had 0 sacks against him and was the ONLY guard that played 16 games to do that. Granted he had a very mobile qb to help him but pretty ****ing solid any way you look at it.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:25 PM   #21
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Nice to have you back, Mr. Kuper.
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:29 PM   #22
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WTF are you talking about? He played as well as you could expect having rookies on both sides of him for the majority of the season. I watch the O-line every game and isolate specifically on the interior and critique the game with a couple of guys who played in the league for 20 years between them. They didn't sign him to the contract because he was the only guy they could find, they looked at ALL of his work and made an offer that is on the low end for a starter. The 7 mil he gets paid this year is the guaranteed money that he deserves for playing at the league minimum and making ALL of the escalators in his previous contract except pro bowl which everyone knows is a popularity contest. If it wasn't then he would have made it 2 years ago when he had 0 sacks against him and was the ONLY guard that played 16 games to do that. Granted he had a very mobile qb to help him but pretty ****ing solid any way you look at it.
So who is playing QB this year? Orton ,Tebow or doesn't matter Elway is in love with Luck. Does you son work out at Valor?
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Old 07-22-2011, 04:55 PM   #23
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Nice to have you back, Mr. Kuper.
Ditto this.
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:39 AM   #24
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That pic is f--king priceless. Especially considering it was taken at the Elway introductory presser. It makes me giggle every time I see it.
Oh come on, sweater vests with suit coats are not that bad...are they?
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:44 AM   #25
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I mean, I'm glad Marshall's problems are gone, but how good will he be and what did they do with what they got for him?
What you get and how you use it are two entirely separate transactions. For years Shanahan was great at developing talent and finding late round steals. he sucked at big name FAs and early draft picks. The later did not invalidate the former.

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Orton should get decent compensation if he's traded, but we don't know. And if they let him play out the year and let him walk, was that money well spent?
They got a guy who was on the border of making the pro-bowl to take a pretty team friendly two year extension. If he'd made them tender him he'd now be a free agent and we wouldn't even have the choice of what to do with him. Ergo, any value they extract from him in trade or on the field this year is effectively found money.

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It was a good move to re-sign Dumervil for a boatload of cash at the time (I think?), but now you have a guy coming off of a major injury and going in to a scheme that isn't the one he truly thrived on.
Much like Marshall, you can't judge moves using 20/20 hindsight. Doom looked to have emerged as an elite pass rusher. Locking him up was universally praised here and pretty much everywhere else that the Broncos are seriously followed.

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And Kuper didn't show that he's a starting guard in this league last year, let alone show he was worth a long term financial commitment.
I don't even know how to respond to this. Kuper was playing through injuries, book-ended by rookies and part time players, with an immobile QB behind center and an offensive play caller who always wanted to pass and always wanted to pass deep. Kuper had been not just a starter every year up until last, but a standout at OG. He signed an extension for less than a veteran starting guard would normally make after out performing the average veteran starting guard. Chances are by the end of his contract the Broncos organization will come out ahead on the deal.

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There isn't a single player on this team, sans Champ, that can be confidently given the expectation of multi-year elite production. And Champ is unfortunately past his prime. And that's pretty damn depressing.
Doom when healthy was elite. He was signed when healthy. Players with similar injuries have returned to previous form after rehab as well. No reason to discount him off-hand.

Also Orton and Kuper were not given elite money. Why should we expect elite production?
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