How far, if at all, should the debt ceiling be raised?

[Boomhauer]

Option #1: Don't raise the debt ceiling
Quantitative Easing was the process of the Fed Reserve buying almost $3tril from the Treasury - the Gov printing money "off book" to itself at market interest rates. If the debt ceiling is not raised, the Gov could eliminate some of the money it created for itself.
ie: Arkie's post below and related article. http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/...ederal-reserve
The Central bank in Europe, their version of the Fed, has considered similar actions to help distressed countries, but if private banks and investors must follow suit, it is considered default and affects credit ratings.

Option #2: Only cover existing 2011 allocations= $650bil?
If no agreement is made on drastic spending cuts, this is the likely outcome to carry us into the 2012 budget year - similar to the way impasse among Demos caused the 2011 budget to be a CR of 2010 and Repubs signed on for the last of it this Spring. Like with Option #1, this would require either a balanced budget for 2012 and beyond, or choosing between accounting gimmicks and raising the debt ceiling to match future deficits.

Option #3: Cover 2011 and likely 2012= $2tril?
Further kicks the can down the road to allow yet another +$1.3tril deficit for 2012, but ends just in time for elections.

*edit: Option #1 to Arkie's example because I'd calculated 25% instead of 2.5% interest this morning - it was early.

[alkemical]

Personally, I am not an econ expert. I like option 1. You have to deal with this **** sooner or later. I'd rather deal with it now - while i'm capable and able too help out friends/family as well.

[Arkie]

Instead of raising the limit, we can immediately lower the debt by 1.6 trillion by destroying the government bonds the Federal Reserve has purchased. This would immediately give us plenty of space under the current debt ceiling.

http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/...ederal-reserve

[Boomhauer]

Along the lines of Option #1......

Rueters.com 07.07.2011 http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7666K120110707
"The Federal Reserve's $600 billion Treasury buying spree is over and the bond market is growing nervous now that its biggest bidder has stepped aside. ... During QE2, the Fed bought between roughly $2 billion and $9 billion in Treasuries each day it entered the market. In some weeks, it carried out a purchase operation every day. In others, it bought Treasuries on three or four days out of the week. ..."

Bloomberg.com 06.27.2011 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...es-to-end.html
"The Federal Reserve will remain the biggest buyer of Treasuries, even after the second round of quantitative easing ends this week ... While the $600 billion purchase program, known as QE2, winds down, the Fed said June 22 that it will continue to buy ... as much as $300 billion of government debt over the next 12 months without adding money to the financial system.
The central bank, which injected $2.3 trillion into the financial system after the collapse of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. in September 2008, will continue buying Treasuries to keep market rates down as the economy slows. ...

[alkemical]

Is that sort of like laundering money?

[Boomhauer]

Originally Posted by alkemical

Is that sort of like laundering money?

When the Fed gets "off-book" money from the Treasury - Fed loans it to banks at low 0.5% interest so banks can weight their books (liquidity) - banks then use that to buy "on-book" money from the Treasury for 3% interest back (banks net 2.5% interest in the exchange) - Treasury declares the returned "off-book" money legit and uses it to cover the budget deficit (print twice, record once). I'd call it counterfeiting and laundering, but Bernanke and Geithner call it quantitative easing.

[alkemical]

It just amazes me our money is based on "faith".

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

"Not doing anything" is not a viable solution, unless you're actively looking to crush the economy across several continents.

[Boomhauer]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

...unless you're actively looking to crush the economy across several continents.

Blowing up the national debt to pay off special interests and political repayment (Stim#1&2=Pelosi money parties), instead of stimulating growth, while counterfeiting and laundering the US Dollar to destroy its value and spike inflation during a recession and go full tilt on bubbleconomics is "actively looking to crush the economy".
Well done little-O and the Nazi-left. You've bankrupted America and destroyed global finance. Something the commies never could.

[Arkie]

Originally Posted by alkemical

It just amazes me our money is based on "faith".

That won't last. It's only been that way for 40 years. EVERY currency based on faith alone since the Romans first began the practice has ended in devaluation and collapse. Post a link if you find an exception.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by Boomhauer

Blowing up the national debt to pay off special interests and political repayment (Stim#1&2=Pelosi money parties), instead of stimulating growth, while counterfeiting and laundering the US Dollar to destroy its value and spike inflation during a recession and go full tilt on bubbleconomics is "actively looking to crush the economy".
Well done little-O and the Nazi-left. You've bankrupted America and destroyed global finance. Something the commies never could.

Weren't you one of the morons sounding the alarm when some folks on the left compared Bush to Hitler?

Now they're "the Nazi left"?

You, sir, are a hypocrite. I know you don't know what that means -- nobody on the right seems to have any idea -- but you should look it up, then look in the mirror.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by Boomhauer

Blowing up the national debt to pay off special interests and political repayment (Stim#1&2=Pelosi money parties), instead of stimulating growth, while counterfeiting and laundering the US Dollar to destroy its value and spike inflation during a recession and go full tilt on bubbleconomics is "actively looking to crush the economy".
Well done little-O and the Nazi-left. You've bankrupted America and destroyed global finance. Something the commies never could.

Arkie brought up the Romans in a post here - and it made me think to the story I was hearing circulating on the radio last night that Congress is looking to give the Executive Branch powers to expand the debt limit. This isn't just about Obama - when these powers are handed over, it makes me cringe because of the next president being worse than the previous. (We've been on a downward trend for a while, at least IMO.)

Back back to my thought that got me to post:

Congress turning over these powers, is Congress "invalidating" themselves. If you aren't "doing anything", what's your point/purpose? Just more or less like a "duke/dutchess", and you have your "zone" you rule over?

America is becoming very weird.

[Boomhauer]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

Weren't you one of the morons sounding the alarm when some folks on the left compared Bush to Hitler?
You, sir, are a hypocrite.

Says right under my name - Join Date: Aug 2010
So, no. And you're doubly retarded for 1)a baseless accusation 2)without checking the obvious first.
You joined Feb 2009, meaning you weren't here either, unless you maintain multiple accounts.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by Boomhauer

Says right under my name - Join Date: Aug 2010
So, no. And you're doubly retarded for 1)a baseless accusation 2)without checking the obvious first.
You joined Feb 2009, meaning you weren't here either, unless you maintain multiple accounts.

Gee, I didn't realize that the Mane was the only place anyone ever said anything. Thanks for filling me in; guess it's time for me to give up my place in the real world and just spend all my time here, coining phrases for people.



Next you're going to tell us you coined the phrase "Four score and seven years ago," hey boom?

[ghwk]

Originally Posted by alkemical

It just amazes me our money is based on "faith".

It amazes me that gold is so valuable, it's just a ROCK (ok mineral) but still! I'm working on getting concrete to be a valuable commodity. I'll be freaking rich.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

"Not doing anything" is not a viable solution, unless you're actively looking to crush the economy across several continents.

Yep best bet now is to just raise it in increments. Obama stormed out on that note because he doesn't get his tax raises then, but it satisfies his scare tactics. It makes him have raise taxes on its own and he doesn't want to own the tax increases. Right now Obama is doing whatever possible to try and make these new repubs that just got elected own part of the economy.

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by ghwk

It amazes me that gold is so valuable, it's just a ROCK (ok mineral) but still! I'm working on getting concrete to be a valuable commodity. I'll be freaking rich.

Gold is really rare though so it's not surprising. Plus the people in India use it as a part of their culture and that drives up the value as well.

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Yep best bet now is to just raise it in increments. Obama stormed out on that note because he doesn't get his tax raises then, but it satisfies his scare tactics. It makes him have raise taxes on its own and he doesn't want to own the tax increases. Right now Obama is doing whatever possible to try and make these new repubs that just got elected own part of the economy.

Bull****. Total bull****.

Obama stormed out because Republicans asked for X amount in cuts, he gave it to them DEPENDENT ON INCREASING REVENUE.

Do you actually want to, you know, FIX the deficit? Or do you want to do this same song and dance, every year, for the next thirty years (provided there's not a Republican in the White House; then raising the debt limit is A-OK)?

[ghwk]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

Gold is really rare though so it's not surprising. Plus the people in India use it as a part of their culture and that drives up the value as well.

Yeah but you missed the point--IT's JUST A ROCK! Really think about that for a minute....

[Arkie]

Characteristics of good money

1. Widely marketable
2. Transports easily
3. Relatively scarce
4. Relatively imperishable
5. Easy to store
6. Easily divisible
7. All units are similar

As we can see, based on these 7 characteristics, gold fulfills them all. No other commodity comes even close. I guess that's why gold is the only money that's worked for over 5000 years. Our currency (40 years young) has devalued rapidly after being taken off the gold standard.

[ghwk]

Originally Posted by Arkie

Characteristics of good money

1. Widely marketable
2. Transports easily
3. Relatively scarce
4. Relatively imperishable
5. Easy to store
6. Easily divisible
7. All units are similar

As we can see, based on these 7 characteristics, gold fulfills them all. No other commodity comes even close. I guess that's why gold is the only money that's worked for over 5000 years. Our currency (40 years young) has devalued rapidly after being taken off the gold standard.

But you understand you are putting your faith in a rock right? My kidney stones meet the same criteria....

[cutthemdown]

Originally Posted by ghwk

Yeah but you missed the point--IT's JUST A ROCK! Really think about that for a minute....

I know it's pretty weird because all its good for really it to make things pretty. Silver i think used more in industry but I don't know for sure. I guess part of it is the lore. How even ancient peoples realized it was special, it stood out. My friend has a small gold mining outfit. Like a motor, pump, big hose and automatic thingy that i guess separates the stuff. But he has yet to try it out. He found it in an old RV he bought. From the looks of the rv the guy b4 didnt find any gold. !. Or maybe he did and then he said i am outa here.

[alkemical]

Originally Posted by ghwk

It amazes me that gold is so valuable, it's just a ROCK (ok mineral) but still! I'm working on getting concrete to be a valuable commodity. I'll be freaking rich.

Do you think it's more symbolic?

Sun/Moon - Gold/Silver?

[Boomhauer]

Originally Posted by TheElusiveKyleOrton

Gee, I didn't realize that the Mane was the only place anyone ever said anything. Thanks for filling me in; guess it's time for me to give up my place in the real world and just spend all my time here, coining phrases for people. Next you're going to tell us you coined the phrase "Four score and seven years ago," hey boom?

Probably shouldn't ask, since all your post are retarded and hysteric rants, but WTF are you babbling about?

[TheElusiveKyleOrton]

Originally Posted by Boomhauer

Probably shouldn't ask, since all your post are retarded and hysteric rants, but WTF are you babbling about?

Awwww, look at the poor inbred hick. Doesn't even understand the conversation he's involved with.

Probably all the inbreeding. What's on your family crest, Boom? "Keep it in the family"?

Go ask your grandbrother.