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Old 06-03-2011, 08:19 AM   #1
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Default NFL legal fight centers on St. Louis today

NFL legal fight centers on St. Louis today

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-louis-today/

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Today, in St. Louis, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit will take up the question of whether Judge Susan Nelson’s order lifting the lockout will be upheld or overturned. Specifically, the three-judge panel will hear oral arguments from the lawyers. And even though the entire process has been expedited, don’t except a Judge Wapner-style “I’ll be back in five minutes” decision. Chances are it’ll be at least a week and as long as a month before the judges issue their ruling.

With two of the three judges leaning in the NFL’s favor and one judge apparently poised to rule for the players, there’s a belief that the final outcome will result in the lockout remaining in place. But the questions posed by the two judges (Colloton and Benton) who are perceived to be willing to let the lockout stand could shed light on whether one of them is having serious doubts about his “serious doubts.” If so, that could give the owners even more reason to try to work out a new labor deal before the Eighth Circuit rules.
Basically no change. There are some thoughts one of the judges might flip for the players, but probably not. In which case the lockout would be appealed again and again. Once the Supreme Court either rules or refuses to take the case, then the negotiating HAS to happen. They are negotiating right now, but if one side believes there is something to gain by waiting for the ruling, then that party will stall until a ruling is issued. So here are the scenarios:
  1. The owners and players agree to a new deal before the 8th circuit court rules, or at least agree to drop the suit and/or end the lockout in order to reach a new deal in good faith.
  2. One party believes the ruling will go their way and stalls. The ruling comes down in favor of some party and the other party accepts the decision and tries negotiate a new deal rather than risk absolutely losing all leverage by appealing further. A new deal is finalized before the appeals process ends.
  3. The ruling comes down and the other party remains obstinate. They appeal all the way to the Supreme Court and dismiss all attempts to negotiate. After the Supreme Court either refuses to take the case or rules, then the negotiating starts with one party getting butt-raped. In this case, if the players won there would be no more draft. If the owners won they would cornhole the players.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:24 AM   #2
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since i live in st louis, i will represent the OMANE and drive down there and ask them nicely if we can have football pleaseeeeeee
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:27 AM   #3
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St. Louis, eh? This has Josh McDaniels written all over it.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:30 AM   #4
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St. Louis, eh? This has Josh McDaniels written all over it.
Cool. It will be interesting to see the tape of the private deliberations.
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:38 AM   #5
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Cool. It will be interesting to see the tape of the private deliberations.
"We're just tryin' to win the mother****in' deal!"
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:45 AM   #6
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dave matthews cd and socks with sandles will be required
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:46 AM   #7
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I voiced it in another thread, but may as well voice it here... Regardless of what happens, i think our team is already hurt by this situation for the short term. We should be having June minicamps right now, installing both the defense and tuning up the offense. We were already behind, and this lockout only puts us further behind. I realize that everybody is affected by this, but not everybody went 4-12 last season and booted their coach to the curb before anyone even had a chance to get sick of Christmas songs.

Regardless of what the judge rules, I feel like we (the fans) got screwed here.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:09 PM   #8
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Are you saying our super bowl hopes are in jeopardy?
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:11 PM   #9
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Are you saying our super bowl hopes are in jeopardy?
Persactly.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I voiced it in another thread, but may as well voice it here... Regardless of what happens, i think our team is already hurt by this situation for the short term. We should be having June minicamps right now, installing both the defense and tuning up the offense. We were already behind, and this lockout only puts us further behind. I realize that everybody is affected by this, but not everybody went 4-12 last season and booted their coach to the curb before anyone even had a chance to get sick of Christmas songs.

Regardless of what the judge rules, I feel like we (the fans) got screwed here.
Maybe you haven't heard: Tebow's got this.
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Old 06-03-2011, 01:29 PM   #11
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I voiced it in another thread, but may as well voice it here... Regardless of what happens, i think our team is already hurt by this situation for the short term. We should be having June minicamps right now, installing both the defense and tuning up the offense. We were already behind, and this lockout only puts us further behind. I realize that everybody is affected by this, but not everybody went 4-12 last season and booted their coach to the curb before anyone even had a chance to get sick of Christmas songs.

Regardless of what the judge rules, I feel like we (the fans) got screwed here.
This definitely hurts us but it hurts all 32 teams. It was good that we were able to retain McCoy as O Coordinator that should help Tebow a Lot and regardless of how raw Tebow still is he still has a full year under his belt and will know how to prepare for the season
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:02 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I voiced it in another thread, but may as well voice it here... Regardless of what happens, i think our team is already hurt by this situation for the short term. We should be having June minicamps right now, installing both the defense and tuning up the offense. We were already behind, and this lockout only puts us further behind. I realize that everybody is affected by this, but not everybody went 4-12 last season and booted their coach to the curb before anyone even had a chance to get sick of Christmas songs.

Regardless of what the judge rules, I feel like we (the fans) got screwed here.
Absolutely. The veteran teams with no coaching turnover won't be nearly as affected as a team in our situation with almost complete turnover. This REALLY screws us.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:04 PM   #13
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mehhh...the broncos went 6-0 before the NFL started to figure out McDumbass.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:05 AM   #14
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mehhh...the broncos went 6-0 before the NFL started to figure out McDumbass.
I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic here or not, but you do realize McDaniels was a first year coach, not a veteran like John Fox. This is the only scenario where John Fox's long tenure in Carolina hurts the Broncos. The only variable I see playing in our favor is Dennis Allen.
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Old 06-04-2011, 10:52 AM   #15
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I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic here or not, but you do realize McDaniels was a first year coach, not a veteran like John Fox. This is the only scenario where John Fox's long tenure in Carolina hurts the Broncos. The only variable I see playing in our favor is Dennis Allen.
So he probably won't tend to do the dumb $#it McD did as HC...
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Old 06-04-2011, 12:18 PM   #16
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I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic here or not, but you do realize McDaniels was a first year coach, not a veteran like John Fox. This is the only scenario where John Fox's long tenure in Carolina hurts the Broncos. The only variable I see playing in our favor is Dennis Allen.
Agree and it's what Allen does that interests me the most. I think keeping McCoy may have been a mistake but doesn't worry me.
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Old 06-04-2011, 04:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I voiced it in another thread, but may as well voice it here... Regardless of what happens, i think our team is already hurt by this situation for the short term. We should be having June minicamps right now, installing both the defense and tuning up the offense. We were already behind, and this lockout only puts us further behind. I realize that everybody is affected by this, but not everybody went 4-12 last season and booted their coach to the curb before anyone even had a chance to get sick of Christmas songs.

Regardless of what the judge rules, I feel like we (the fans) got screwed here.
I've been saying this since the labor dispute began. The worst affected teams are the ones at the bottom in terms of returning talent (veterans), ones with new coaching systems in place and those that have young developing QB's or indeed rookies who they intend to start this season. We fall into every one of those categories. Some may well say that San Diego or Kansas City are suffering as much as we are but I totally disagree given the stability of both franchises on the field.

You only have to look at the DL we'd be putting out to start the season if indeed it began tomorrow. One vet DT, and 2 DE's one of whom hasn't really played 4-3 football since being drafted and the other coming off a major injury and who hasn't played in this kind of system for 2 years.

Some may well say, "but we'll have free agency before the season starts." Well we're now into June with no end in sight of this dispute and we still dont know what the boundaries will be regarding available players i.e 4 year or 6 year vets, when free agency eventually gets the go ahead. Even if we do indeed land a couple of decent vets you're giving them basically 1-2 months tops to learn a new system (unless they've played for Fox/Allen before) and get used to their new team-mates. I'm not even going to touch on the linebacker positions which could see 2 rookies starting who've had no coaching of note this offseason.

For me the NLFPA and owners have basically hindered our season and I hope that Bowlen doesn't have a measuring stick out for Fox either given the predicament he's been placed in, bridge to far too soon and if he somehow does get this team anywhere near playoff contention it'll be one of his best ever accomplishments.
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:31 PM   #18
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I've been saying this since the labor dispute began. The worst affected teams are the ones at the bottom in terms of returning talent (veterans), ones with new coaching systems in place and those that have young developing QB's or indeed rookies who they intend to start this season. We fall into every one of those categories. Some may well say that San Diego or Kansas City are suffering as much as we are but I totally disagree given the stability of both franchises on the field.

You only have to look at the DL we'd be putting out to start the season if indeed it began tomorrow. One vet DT, and 2 DE's one of whom hasn't really played 4-3 football since being drafted and the other coming off a major injury and who hasn't played in this kind of system for 2 years.

Some may well say, "but we'll have free agency before the season starts." Well we're now into June with no end in sight of this dispute and we still dont know what the boundaries will be regarding available players i.e 4 year or 6 year vets, when free agency eventually gets the go ahead. Even if we do indeed land a couple of decent vets you're giving them basically 1-2 months tops to learn a new system (unless they've played for Fox/Allen before) and get used to their new team-mates. I'm not even going to touch on the linebacker positions which could see 2 rookies starting who've had no coaching of note this offseason.

For me the NLFPA and owners have basically hindered our season and I hope that Bowlen doesn't have a measuring stick out for Fox either given the predicament he's been placed in, bridge to far too soon and if he somehow does get this team anywhere near playoff contention it'll be one of his best ever accomplishments.
I'll put it this way I can completely understand if we have another bad season. The longer the labor dispute lasts does hurt us with so many changes and lots of youth and many holes still need filling. I just hope to see improvement over the season and whatever happens live with it.

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Old 06-04-2011, 09:52 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I voiced it in another thread, but may as well voice it here... Regardless of what happens, i think our team is already hurt by this situation for the short term. We should be having June minicamps right now, installing both the defense and tuning up the offense. We were already behind, and this lockout only puts us further behind. I realize that everybody is affected by this, but not everybody went 4-12 last season and booted their coach to the curb before anyone even had a chance to get sick of Christmas songs.

Regardless of what the judge rules, I feel like we (the fans) got screwed here.
Yes, Denver is among the teams that have suffered disproportionately due to the lockout. From what I understand, under the prior CBA, new coaches were permitted an extra set of minicamps to install their systems, so not only are we not getting the oppurtunity to conduct the same camps as other teams but also we lost the additional minicamp as well. Even without that, Denver was a team that was desperately in need of a full offseason of both field and classroom training. This is something that would have been extremely valuable to Tebow (he's working out and all now, but the daily instruction for a whole summer would have really made a difference). This will also hurt the OL alot. It is hard to expect that Year 2 jump out of guys like Beadles and Walton when they don't have that full offseason to hone their skills and Franklin is in no way shape or form ready to be an NFL RT and probably won't be for many years, anyway.

We're put in a very difficult position, here, although to be realistic, it's hard to say that this was going to be anything more than a rough transition year, anyway. We are one of the worst teams in the NFL (thanks Pat) and its going to take awhile before we can truly contend, so its not like a Super Bowl window is closing or anything. Still, it would have been nice to have a real offseason with alot of these kids that need the improvement and repetitions.

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Old 06-04-2011, 11:12 PM   #20
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Yes, Denver is among the teams that have suffered disproportionately due to the lockout. From what I understand, under the prior CBA, new coaches were permitted an extra set of minicamps to install their systems, so not only are we not getting the oppurtunity to conduct the same camps as other teams but also we lost the additional minicamp as well. Even without that, Denver was a team that was desperately in need of a full offseason of both field and classroom training. This is something that would have been extremely valuable to Tebow (he's working out and all now, but the daily instruction for a whole summer would have really made a difference). This will also hurt the OL alot. It is hard to expect that Year 2 jump out of guys like Beadles and Walton when they don't have that full offseason to hone their skills and Franklin is in no way shape or form ready to be an NFL RT and probably won't be for many years, anyway.

We're put in a very difficult position, here, although to be realistic, it's hard to say that this was going to be anything more than a rough transition year, anyway. We are one of the worst teams in the NFL (thanks Pat) and its going to take awhile before we can truly contend, so its not like a Super Bowl window is closing or anything. Still, it would have been nice to have a real offseason with alot of these kids that need the improvement and repetitions.
Agree 100%
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