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Old 06-16-2014, 11:26 AM   #2401
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Boy, some people really like complaining about great stuff.

The ONE thing I would have done differently: after killing Tywin I would've liked Tyrion to tell Varys that "in the end Tywin Lannister did not **** gold".
I was waiting for that but it didn't come.
Still though, watching him kill Tywin was worth it.
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Old 06-16-2014, 12:50 PM   #2402
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So they just threw in that Cersei admitting her incestuous relationship to Tywin scene to give Nik and Leana screen time, knowing that Tywin was going to die. That five or so minutes should have been used to properly portray Tyrion and Tywin's interaction. One of the most crucial scenes for one of the most important characters was rushed and nowhere near as impactful as it should have been. Surprisingly the story at the wall finally got it right, and Kit finally showed me Jon Snow. Outside of Brienne being the one to injure Sandor, Arya's story line is the most faithful and engaging of them all.

Now that the show has caught up to (and surpassed with Bran) the best part of the series so far, I really see no reason to keep watching. I fell in love with Martin's story, not the HBO show.

Also, if this episode's departures were sanctioned by GrrM, it throws the theory that the CotF are behind all of this out the window. The girl was throwing fire at some ice skeletons? As I typed that sentence I realized just how stupid that scene was. No Jojen Paste.
The best thing about this show was it got my youngest son to start reading again. On Saturday we were discussing all of the things that we thought would need to get "done" in this last episode. As we were talking about it, I realized that he actually read the books that pretty much brought him up to this episode, he knew ALL of the details and remembered things I had forgotten until we were talking about them. He is 21 and I don't remember him being the greatest reader in HS which was disappointing because I have always been voracious. If this is the end result I just need to get him to watch "Patton" and a few others to get him interested in history because it is disheartening talking to some younger (and older) people when you realize they have no idea HTF we have gotten where we are in the World unless they play it in a video game..
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Old 06-16-2014, 05:36 PM   #2403
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The best thing about this show was it got my youngest son to start reading again. On Saturday we were discussing all of the things that we thought would need to get "done" in this last episode. As we were talking about it, I realized that he actually read the books that pretty much brought him up to this episode, he knew ALL of the details and remembered things I had forgotten until we were talking about them. He is 21 and I don't remember him being the greatest reader in HS which was disappointing because I have always been voracious. If this is the end result I just need to get him to watch "Patton" and a few others to get him interested in history because it is disheartening talking to some younger (and older) people when you realize they have no idea HTF we have gotten where we are in the World unless they play it in a video game..

I went through that..now I like to read, but hated reading the classics in school. And I read most of them.
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Old 06-16-2014, 06:03 PM   #2404
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Wasn't a huge fan of this sewson
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Old 06-16-2014, 08:42 PM   #2405
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Just got around to watching it. It was a satisfying, if not shocking season finale. I haven't read the books, but for some reason I had a feeling what was coming for Tywin. Also had a feeling the hound was going down, but the manner in which it happened kind of pissed me off. (Although it was a good fight scene) Getting taken down by maybe the most annoying character on the show, then just left to rot by Arya. I know his intentions weren't always the best, but in that moment he was trying to protect her, and if not for him she would have been dead a looooong time ago. He was one of the better characters on the show, probably my favorite this season minus Oberyn. Things certainly didn't end well for either of them. Curious to see what the hell ends up happening with the mountain.
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Old 06-16-2014, 10:43 PM   #2406
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Wasn't a huge fan of this sewson
It was easily the best season so far.
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Old 06-16-2014, 11:19 PM   #2407
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It was easily the best season so far.
I don't rank the seasons. Just enjoy the entire story.

But every season has had it's moment of absolute badassness.

I might watch all 4 seasons again, in marathon style.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:16 AM   #2408
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Don't see how Jojens death does anything but reinforce the Jojen-paste theory...

Do you think he needs to be alive to be turned into a paste? The children wouldn't leave his body to become a wight, anyway.

Jojen being dead in the show only reinforces him being dead in the books which is the foundation of the theory.
His body was obliterated by one of those fireball/fire pots. Presumably to protect him from the indignity of being turned into a skeleton.

No Jojen paste for you.
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:33 AM   #2409
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Just got around to watching it. It was a satisfying, if not shocking season finale. I haven't read the books, but for some reason I had a feeling what was coming for Tywin. Also had a feeling the hound was going down, but the manner in which it happened kind of pissed me off. (Although it was a good fight scene) Getting taken down by maybe the most annoying character on the show, then just left to rot by Arya. I know his intentions weren't always the best, but in that moment he was trying to protect her, and if not for him she would have been dead a looooong time ago. He was one of the better characters on the show, probably my favorite this season minus Oberyn. Things certainly didn't end well for either of them. Curious to see what the hell ends up happening with the mountain.
Have you seen any major character die in a non spectacular way? Keep that in mind.
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:17 AM   #2410
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So, since the show runners have to make certain changes to adapt the material from the novels to the screen, here are a list of changes I would like to see them make for the next two seasons that HBO has already ordered.

1. Replace Ilyn Payne's role with Bronn. They have already started doing this and I think it should continue. In the novels, Bronn becomes the Lord of Stokeworth, effectively gets as close to a happy ending as happens in this universe and we don't really hear to much else from him. Because Ilyn Payne can't speak, Jaimie begins training with him to learn to fight left-handed. Well, Wilko Johnson, the actor who played Ilyn Payne, is in the process of dieing from cancer. So, they would have to recast his character anyway if they wanted to retain him. Much better to simply continue using Bronn as Jaimie's sparing partner and allow him to accompany Jaimie on his various Sieges.

2. Mix books 4 and 5 together. They were largely separated by geography instead of timeline. The Show Runners have already shown that they are no longer sticking to the 1 novel is one season formula from the shows earlier days. Season 5 should be equal parts book 4 and book 5. Lets face it, no on should be deprived of Tyrion for an entire season.

3. Don't spend much time on Quentyn Martell. We get it Martin, guys who are bound by honor and duty end poorly. The theme has been sufficiently established. This character is glorified coal for that all consuming fire. So, if they streamlined his entire role to a brief appearance where he awkwardly offers a marriage and an alliance and a scene to show his ultimate fate I would be content.

4. Put Varys and Young Griff together for a couple of scenes. Depending on what side of the debate you fall on (Young Griff is actually the crown Prince Aegon Targaryen or a clever imposter) Varys has been involved in his existence from childhood. Since they are removing Varys from King's Landing for a period of time anyway, they may as well have him hang with Young Griff for a few episodes to establish the long game the Spider has been playing.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:52 AM   #2411
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Two things here, the fast skeletons was a little bit too Army of Darkness "Deadites" for me but nonetheless I was still fascinated by the armor they were wearing because some of it was chain or plate mail which the Wildlings supposedly do not possess. Probably means nothing but who knows when it comes to Bloodraven.

Second, someone please remind me but wasn't Mance in the process of rolling out to attack again in the book when Stannis' army came in? I liked the scene a lot considering the budget restraint but I couldn't shake the feeling that it was trying to imply that Stannis butchered the Wildlings more than saved the Night's Watch that the book established.
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:32 AM   #2412
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Two things here, the fast skeletons was a little bit too Army of Darkness "Deadites" for me but nonetheless I was still fascinated by the armor they were wearing because some of it was chain or plate mail which the Wildlings supposedly do not possess. Probably means nothing but who knows when it comes to Bloodraven.

Second, someone please remind me but wasn't Mance in the process of rolling out to attack again in the book when Stannis' army came in? I liked the scene a lot considering the budget restraint but I couldn't shake the feeling that it was trying to imply that Stannis butchered the Wildlings more than saved the Night's Watch that the book established.
I didn't see it that way, but I tend to assume what happened from the books when I watch these so I like hearing from people who haven't read the books to see if they got something else from it.

I was more weirded-out by Tyrion and Jaime's amicable leaving of one another, and the fact that the mountain's death, and the ramifications for his admitting to rape and murder, never even came up. It caused some problems for Tywin specifically and Lannisters generally. Not mentioning anything made the Red Viper's death more hallow, when in the books, like the poisons he's infamous for, he exacts a measure of revenge over time.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:44 AM   #2413
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...

I was more weirded-out by Tyrion and Jaime's amicable leaving of one another, and the fact that the mountain's death, and the ramifications for his admitting to rape and murder, never even came up. It caused some problems for Tywin specifically and Lannisters generally. Not mentioning anything made the Red Viper's death more hallow, when in the books, like the poisons he's infamous for, he exacts a measure of revenge over time.
The first part I agree with. The second doesn't bother me that much.

IIRC, the Mountain admitted killing and raping, but never claimed that he did it on anyone's orders, particularly Tywin's - and Tywin's whole gig was that he didn't order it. So that doesn't bug me too much.

I have a bigger problem with the whole omission of the setup regarding in Tyrion's first love. That's what really pops his sanity and drives his rage and we don't get that. Also, in the books, I got the impression that Shae was working for Tywin from day 1 - so the betrayal there was much more extensive. Here, it looks like more of a jealousy killing.

Maybe that's counterbalanced to some extent by the fact that the Tyrion TV version has been presented in a more likeable and sympathetic light than in the books up to now. Or maybe that makes it more out of character. I don't know.

The omission probably makes Jaime look better, which he may need after the appearance of raping his sister a couple episodes ago. Many people are still pretty upset about that.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:46 AM   #2414
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Oh was it? I definitely didn't see that. Never mind then!
Don't give up. We may still see Meera paste. More filling, fewer calories.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:53 AM   #2415
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The first part I agree with. The second doesn't bother me that much.

IIRC, the Mountain admitted killing and raping, but never claimed that he did it on anyone's orders, particularly Tywin's - and Tywin's whole gig was that he didn't order it. So that doesn't bug me too much.

I have a bigger problem with the whole omission of the setup regarding in Tyrion's first love. That's what really pops his sanity and drives his rage and we don't get that. Also, in the books, I got the impression that Shae was working for Tywin from day 1 - so the betrayal there was much more extensive. Here, it looks like more of a jealousy killing.

Maybe that's counterbalanced to some extent by the fact that the Tyrion TV version has been presented in a more likeable and sympathetic light than in the books up to now. Or maybe that makes it more out of character. I don't know.

The omission probably makes Jaime look better, which he may need after the appearance of raping his sister a couple episodes ago. Many people are still pretty upset about that.
I think the chemistry between Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and Peter Dinklage has been so fantastic that they kind of pushed their story lines in a different direction. It might just be me, but in the books it reads like Jaime's affections for Tyrion are, if not entirely from, at least partially born of pity. In this way you can see a resentment that builds up much in the same way in the Dragonlance series Raistlin Majere comes to hate his brother Caramon. In the show they come across as genuine brothers and friends. The ways they've lied to each other doesn't come up as much. I think the writers of the show are wise to allow the story to move organically based around how the actors are interpreting their characters and chemistry that is occurring between them.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:33 PM   #2416
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Old 06-17-2014, 04:05 PM   #2417
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Apparently, Lady Stoneheart just wasn't considered that big a deal and, as of a year ago, the show brains still weren't sure if they wanted to deal with her at all.

Could be that she'll be another cap casualty?

http://in.ign.com/en/news/4073/game-...asn-t-included
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Old 06-17-2014, 06:38 PM   #2418
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Have you seen any major character die in a non spectacular way? Keep that in mind.
All the major character deaths have been quite memorable on the show. I did want Joffrey's to be a bit slower and more bloody, but I suppose beggers can't be choosers. I always thought the Hound and the Mountain would meet at some point, and although I guess you technically never saw either of them die on screen, that outcome seems unlikely.
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Old 06-17-2014, 07:20 PM   #2419
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Last show seemed rushed. Considering they basically ended most of the Lannister dynasty as we know it. Tyrions previous performances, they could have made this showdown epic vs Tywin more than a formality.

Wall scene was ok.

3 eyed raven ok.

Hound/Arya-Brianne was sorta exciting.

Khaleesi scene, meh. Her story has majorly bogged down.

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Old 06-17-2014, 07:37 PM   #2420
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I forgot to mention the Fight scene with with Brienne and the Hound was one of my favorite fight scenes of the series.
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Old 06-17-2014, 08:40 PM   #2421
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I forgot to mention the Fight scene with with Brienne and the Hound was one of my favorite fight scenes of the series.
Agreed. Hated that the Hound lost though.
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Old 06-17-2014, 09:02 PM   #2422
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They could focus on one storyline a season, and still not cover everything.


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Old 06-17-2014, 09:24 PM   #2423
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They could focus on one storyline a season, and still not cover everything.


So was Theon getting tortured in every episode of season three necessary when we could have had more time for other story lines left on the table? They could have fit the purple wedding or whatever its called into season three, and spent more time on the madness that unfolds in book 3. That would mean more Viper development, more wall desperation development, more time spent on building Jamie's character arch, and so on. They blew it.

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Old 06-17-2014, 09:28 PM   #2424
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So was Thion getting tortured in every episode of season three necessary when we could have had more time for other story lines left on the table? They could have fit the purple wedding or whatever its called into season three, and spent more time on the madness that unfolds in book 3. That would mean more Viper development, more wall desperation development, more time spent on building Jamie's character arch, and so on. They blew it.
I think they're setting up for what Thion is about to do to his dad.
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:01 PM   #2425
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I think they're setting up for what Thion is about to do to his dad.
What does Theon do to his dad? His dad gets blown off a bridge and drowns.
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