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Old 04-29-2014, 04:43 PM   #2301
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Yeah... My thoughts on the relationship between the Others and the 3EC and Coldhands are pretty jumbled right now.

I'm having a very difficult time accepting the idea that they can just write him out of the show as meaningless, though.
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Old 04-29-2014, 04:45 PM   #2302
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Yeah... My thoughts on the relationship between the Others and the 3EC and Coldhands are pretty jumbled right now.

I'm having a very difficult time accepting the idea that they can just write him out of the show as meaningless, though.

Could Coldhands be the Nights King?

Also could the wights be less in control of the others than we think? That is that they are in fact blood thirsty zombies who seek to kill the living, WW are safe since they are not living but if one needs to safely shepherd the living through ranks of wights perhaps the WW would still have to provide protection?
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:49 AM   #2303
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Not a reader of the books. I'm very tired of the constant theme being, "o no, the white walkers are coming!". They don't do ****. They've been in constant interaction with humans all along, obviously within striking range, and have not done ****. O cool, they can turn human infants into walkers. Seems silly to me, they are within miles of the enemy. Go attack and destroy the wall, which is a pathetic army. The Wnba all stars with baseball bats could win that battle. If the walkers were any kind of threat, they'd have been f'n **** up already. Seriously, what's stopping them?
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:53 AM   #2304
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Not a reader of the books. I'm very tired of the constant theme being, "o no, the white walkers are coming!". They don't do ****. They've been in constant interaction with humans all along, obviously within striking range, and have not done ****. O cool, they can turn human infants into walkers. Seems silly to me, they are within miles of the enemy. Go attack and destroy the wall, which is a pathetic army. The Wnba all stars with baseball bats could win that battle. If the walkers were any kind of threat, they'd have been f'n **** up already. Seriously, what's stopping them?
You don't understand how huge the Land of Always Winter is, and how far beyond The Wall it is - or that the Wall is made from sorcery that the modern civilization doesn't really understand which was made to keep them on that side of it. The thing is, if the Wildlings are successful in their attack on The Wall, all that sorcery is for naught as they'll just walk through devouring the land in cold and darkness as they go...

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Old 04-30-2014, 08:37 AM   #2305
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Anyone seen these: http://www.southparkstudios.com/guid...7-black-friday

NSFW. Pretty funny if you ask me. 3 South Park episodes spoofing GoT and the console wars. Not sure if they've been posted before.

"The pizzas are on the way! I promise! They'll be here soon." - GRRM
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:39 AM   #2306
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Anyone seen these: http://www.southparkstudios.com/guid...7-black-friday

NSFW. Pretty funny if you ask me. 3 South Park episodes spoofing GoT and the console wars. Not sure if they've been posted before.

"The pizzas are on the way! I promise! They'll be here soon." - GRRM
That was a run around TG last year. I love the tats on Bill Gates....
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:50 AM   #2307
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That was a run around TG last year. I love the tats on Bill Gates....
MS-DOS
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:00 AM   #2308
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...Also could the wights be less in control of the others than we think? That is that they are in fact blood thirsty zombies who seek to kill the living, WW are safe since they are not living but if one needs to safely shepherd the living through ranks of wights perhaps the WW would still have to provide protection?
I dunno. Everything I've seen and read so far points to the Others as being the guys who raised the zombies from the dead in the first place. That includes zombie horses that they are riding around. They look to me to be in full control - the sole exception being the wight attack on Coldhands, but we don't know exactly what or who Coldhands is. So it's easier for me to assume at this point that Coldhands isn't a typical "Other" (if he's an "Other" at all.)

In terms of sorting this all out my working theory is this. There's no reason to think that Bloodraven (the 3EC) is playing for "Team Human." His main loyalty, if anything, seems to be to himself and/or the Children of the Forest.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's playing for "Team White Walkers." They probably have their own agenda. In fact, Bloodraven may have thwarted them at least once by making sure Sam got to the wall (to help guide Bran to the secret passage) while the wights seem to have BRs hidey-hole under an ineffective siege. (He's warded it against them.)

Having said that, I can see BR (and the Children of the Forest) taking advantage of the White-Walker zombie plague if the ultimate goal is to drive humans, once and for all, from Westeros.

The thing that's so tough is that BR can supposedly get glimpses of the future. That's always a problematic plot point depending on what exactly he knows and his relative ability - if at all - to change anything that's already fated to be.
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Old 04-30-2014, 12:59 PM   #2309
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I dunno. Everything I've seen and read so far points to the Others as being the guys who raised the zombies from the dead in the first place. That includes zombie horses that they are riding around. They look to me to be in full control - the sole exception being the wight attack on Coldhands, but we don't know exactly what or who Coldhands is. So it's easier for me to assume at this point that Coldhands isn't a typical "Other" (if he's an "Other" at all.)

In terms of sorting this all out my working theory is this. There's no reason to think that Bloodraven (the 3EC) is playing for "Team Human." His main loyalty, if anything, seems to be to himself and/or the Children of the Forest.

That doesn't necessarily mean he's playing for "Team White Walkers." They probably have their own agenda. In fact, Bloodraven may have thwarted them at least once by making sure Sam got to the wall (to help guide Bran to the secret passage) while the wights seem to have BRs hidey-hole under an ineffective siege. (He's warded it against them.)

Having said that, I can see BR (and the Children of the Forest) taking advantage of the White-Walker zombie plague if the ultimate goal is to drive humans, once and for all, from Westeros.

The thing that's so tough is that BR can supposedly get glimpses of the future. That's always a problematic plot point depending on what exactly he knows and his relative ability - if at all - to change anything that's already fated to be.
Now I'm pulling from way back but weren't there multiple invasions of men? As I recall the first men actually allied with the Children of the Forest and from what it sounds like had a rather peaceable accord. After that subsequent human arrivals drove the Children of the Forest to near extinction. Perhaps because the Starks are first men BR is willing to ally with them/COF?
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:34 PM   #2310
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Here is what I'm struggling with...

1) We know that Rhollor is real. Of all the gods in the show, Rhollor is the only one that seems to have power that its acolytes can call upon. From Melissandre being able to kill kings with leeches full of king's (bastard) blood, to burning men and putting wind in sails from their screams, to Berric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart.

2) We know that the acolytes of Rhollor believe that there are two gods:
"Man once again faces the war for the dawn, which has been waged since time began. On one side is the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other, whose name may not be spoken. The Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror."
―Thoros of Myr
"There are no gods but R'hllor and the Other, whose name may not be said."
– Moqorro
3) We know that the only other god in the ASOIAF universe that shows any powers is The Old Gods - on which Blood Raven sits the throne, grooming Prince Bran of Winterfell, who is apparently a powerful (the most powerful?) greenseer to take his place.

Is not the inference that Blood Raven is "The Great Other?" And if so, are not the white walkers his servants? And if he's not the great other, who is? And if they're not the servants of the great other, then who are they servants of?

And the other thing - what is Blood Raven's motivation? He was/is a Targaryen, afterall... Well, technically a Rivers, but he's got Targaryen blood.
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Old 04-30-2014, 03:27 PM   #2311
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lol, this thread is 93 pages! Kaylore was right, this thing laughs in the face of the Donald Sterling thread.

Wish I had HBO so I could watch the show.
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Old 04-30-2014, 07:12 PM   #2312
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lol, this thread is 93 pages! Kaylore was right, this thing laughs in the face of the Donald Sterling thread.

Wish I had HBO so I could watch the show.
Get a Virtual Privacy Network and use Pirate bay. Never pay for TV, music, or movies again. Without worrying about getting in trouble. (outside of your internet bill, and $40/yr for a good VPN)
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:33 PM   #2313
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Get a Virtual Privacy Network and use Pirate bay. Never pay for TV, music, or movies again. Without worrying about getting in trouble. (outside of your internet bill, and $40/yr for a good VPN)
That's what I do. I have a vpn and go to kickass.to. You can get the show the same night it is televised.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:40 PM   #2314
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Here is what I'm struggling with...

1) We know that Rhollor is real. Of all the gods in the show, Rhollor is the only one that seems to have power that its acolytes can call upon. From Melissandre being able to kill kings with leeches full of king's (bastard) blood, to burning men and putting wind in sails from their screams, to Berric Dondarrion and Lady Stoneheart.

2) We know that the acolytes of Rhollor believe that there are two gods:
"Man once again faces the war for the dawn, which has been waged since time began. On one side is the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other, whose name may not be spoken. The Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror."
―Thoros of Myr
"There are no gods but R'hllor and the Other, whose name may not be said."
– Moqorro
3) We know that the only other god in the ASOIAF universe that shows any powers is The Old Gods - on which Blood Raven sits the throne, grooming Prince Bran of Winterfell, who is apparently a powerful (the most powerful?) greenseer to take his place.

Is not the inference that Blood Raven is "The Great Other?" And if so, are not the white walkers his servants? And if he's not the great other, who is? And if they're not the servants of the great other, then who are they servants of?

And the other thing - what is Blood Raven's motivation? He was/is a Targaryen, afterall... Well, technically a Rivers, but he's got Targaryen blood.
Its pretty obvious the lord of Darkness is Lord Voldemort.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:49 PM   #2315
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Here is what I'm struggling with...

1) We know that Rhollor is real

...
No, we don't. We know that some people think they are getting powers from said Dude, but there may be someone else who is actually behind it. Such as The COTF.

They could be behind all the magic in Westeros and Essos, divine, arcane and primal.

Also, in addition to the magic attributed to R'hllor and whatever is going on in the North, we've also seen magic from the Warlocks of Qarth (who don't seem to be associated with R'hllor at all), as well as the Alchemist's Guild in King's Landing, the "Shadowbinders" of Asshai, the Faceless Men of Braavos (who supposedly worship the "many-faced-god"), Qyburn (who seems to be some sort of necromancer), and Valyrian magic, which involves both dragons and the forging of "magic" steel.

It is interesting though, that the major faith of Westeros, Worship of the Seven, is just about the only religion for which there is absolutely no indication of any sort of real world miracles or magic.

Last edited by Old Dude; 04-30-2014 at 09:10 PM..
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:32 PM   #2316
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And this is still the most persuasive argument I've seen concerning the COTF as the Big Baddies theory:

http://gameofthronesandnorsemytholog...of-forest.html
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Old 04-30-2014, 09:36 PM   #2317
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Get a Virtual Privacy Network and use Pirate bay. Never pay for TV, music, or movies again. Without worrying about getting in trouble. (outside of your internet bill, and $40/yr for a good VPN)
I had been meaning to ask someone about that too. What's a really good VPN?
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:20 PM   #2318
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SPOILER:





When Tyrion heard about Aegon going to Westeros he said he couldn't believe he took the bait....what was he referring to?
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:29 PM   #2319
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No, we don't. We know that some people think they are getting powers from said Dude, but there may be someone else who is actually behind it. Such as The COTF.
I think there is a lot of evidence that R'hollor is real, Vary's story giving evidence that he may even be directly contacted. Whether he's behind the powers of the priests may be left up to question, but I'd think that's a red herring too far...
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:32 PM   #2320
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I had been meaning to ask someone about that too. What's a really good VPN?
I use Private Internet Access.

40 dollars for a year of internet anonymity. No logs kept, everything is encrypted, IP address masked. Well worth it.

You can also pay with gift cards to further protect your identity.
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Old 04-30-2014, 10:35 PM   #2321
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I think he was just surprised that he took his advice.
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Old 05-01-2014, 08:13 AM   #2322
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No, we don't. We know that some people think they are getting powers from said Dude, but there may be someone else who is actually behind it. Such as The COTF.

They could be behind all the magic in Westeros and Essos, divine, arcane and primal.

Also, in addition to the magic attributed to R'hllor and whatever is going on in the North, we've also seen magic from the Warlocks of Qarth (who don't seem to be associated with R'hllor at all), as well as the Alchemist's Guild in King's Landing, the "Shadowbinders" of Asshai, the Faceless Men of Braavos (who supposedly worship the "many-faced-god"), Qyburn (who seems to be some sort of necromancer), and Valyrian magic, which involves both dragons and the forging of "magic" steel.

It is interesting though, that the major faith of Westeros, Worship of the Seven, is just about the only religion for which there is absolutely no indication of any sort of real world miracles or magic.
The followers of the Many-Faced God believe he is also The Stranger of the Seven. Another wrench to throw into the gears
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:24 AM   #2323
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I had been meaning to ask someone about that too. What's a really good VPN?
I use http://new.hidemyass.com/ great service and easy to set up.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:45 PM   #2324
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I use http://new.hidemyass.com/ great service and easy to set up.
hide my ass.com

It's definitely descriptive.

Back on the subject of GOT.
I think the television show does a great job of both following the books and translating it in a way that keeps it interesting for both non readers and readers a like.

More often than not you have a book series that loses a lot in translation.
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Old 05-01-2014, 03:54 PM   #2325
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Yeah I think the Children of the Forrest are pulling a lot of the strings. To what end, I haven't nailed down just yet. Part of me thinks it's just to murder humans (Martin has been on record saying he sees everyone dead at the end of his story.) Another part has me thinking they're opposing something else. I personally think the Starks are part "other" and that affords them the ability to Wargs. I also think this other blood is what is allowing Bran to be manipulated...and possibly John Snow as well.
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