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Old 04-22-2014, 11:26 AM   #2176
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i haven't read the book, i can only tell you what has happened so far. at this point, he is one up on grandma. i have no doubt that grandma scheming something. up to this point, the tyrells are at a disadvantage. margery is not the queen. loras is set to marry cersei or risk never having an heir.

anyone have any ideas who tommen will marry? i doubt it will be margery. so any ties the tyrell have to the throne is all but dead. maybe the only match for tommen will be arya stark!
Now you get to watch Olenna work her magic.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:12 PM   #2177
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when the tyrells tried to mary sansa to loras tyrell and steal the north, not only did tywin came in to stop it, he forced grandma to his terms of loras marrying cersei. grandma was completely taken off guard. even grandma had to admit she was outwitted by him.

And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

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Old 04-22-2014, 12:17 PM   #2178
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And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

IHRtB but everyone alive benefits from him dying, but clearly grandma Tyrell was part of the conspiracy to kill Joffery. She's the one that actually posioned him.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:22 PM   #2179
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IHRtB but everyone alive benefits from him dying, but clearly grandma Tyrell was part of the conspiracy to kill Joffery. She's the one that actually posioned him.

Indeed. And while I believe the Tyrells are "decent" when compared to the Lannisters, throwing Tyrion and Sansa to the lions is a prickish thing to do. And while everyone benefits from Joffrey dying, the death of a king, even an evil one leaves power vacuums.

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Old 04-22-2014, 12:23 PM   #2180
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Indeed. And while I believe the Tyrells are "decent" when compared to the Lannisters, throwing Tyrion and Sansa to the lions is a prickish thing to do. And while everyone benefits from Joffrey dying, the death of a king, even an evil one leaves power vacuums.

I don't think they planned to have Tyrion take the blame...it just worked out that way. Or it could be that Little Fingerdid it to get Sansa...but I could be wrong. Poor Sansa can't catch a break.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:28 PM   #2181
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I don't think they planned to have Tyrion take the blame...it just worked out that way. Or it could be that Little Fingerdid it to get Sansa...but I could be wrong. Poor Sansa can't catch a break.

Sansa is a character I strongly dislike. How can her and Arya be related at all? Little finger having Sansa (last living Stark...) gives him a claim to the north, especially if he can marry her. Creepy bastard.

My memory is not clear about the specifics of Joffrey's death. I need to reread that book. But they may not have intended to have it fall on Tyrion and Sansa, but it did.


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Old 04-22-2014, 12:30 PM   #2182
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And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

maybe i don't understand much about kings and queens, but is margery still the queen? by default, isn't tommen now the king? if so, how does this benefit the tyrells?
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:37 PM   #2183
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Sansa is a character I strongly dislike. How can her and Arya be related at all? Little finger having Sansa (last living Stark...) gives him a claim to the north, especially if he can marry her. Creepy bastard.

My memory is not clear about the specifics of Joffrey's death. I need to reread that book. But they may not have intended to have it fall on Tyrion and Sansa, but it did.


They don't knwo that there are two surviving male heirs at this point so all Sansa is a high born womb.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:40 PM   #2184
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maybe i don't understand much about kings and queens, but is margery still the queen? by default, isn't tommen now the king? if so, how does this benefit the tyrells?

Cersei is the Dowager Queen, due to her husband dying. She is only queen regent because her unmarried (at the time) son lacked a wife. As soon as they said I do, or Joffrey becomes of age, she ceases/d to be queen.

Tommen is the king. At the moment. Maybe.

And you really need to read the books. There is so much the show cannot cover that you miss.

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Old 04-22-2014, 12:44 PM   #2185
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They don't knwo that there are two surviving male heirs at this point so all Sansa is a high born womb.

They don't know, but we do. Sansa should fall third (if I am right) in the line of succession. Behind her living brothers, and ahead of her sister and half brother. And I am aware of the mystery surrounding Jon Snow.

And a high born womb still has the correct parentage to claim the North. I never got the impression from the GoT books that succession was distinctly male line dominated.

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Old 04-22-2014, 12:45 PM   #2186
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maybe i don't understand much about kings and queens, but is margery still the queen? by default, isn't tommen now the king? if so, how does this benefit the tyrells?
That their daughter isn't married to the bastard moron king.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:46 PM   #2187
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Cersei is the Dowager Queen, due to her husband dying. She is only queen regent because her unmarried (at the time) son lacked a wife. As soon as they said I do, or Joffrey becomes of age, she ceases/d to be queen.

Tommen is the king. At the moment. Maybe.

And you really need to read the books. There is so much the show cannot cover that you miss.

ill read the book after i watch the show. everytime u read the book, it ruins the show.

anyways, if tommen is the king, how does this benefit the tyrells? does this mean the tyrells are no longer linked to the throne? if, granny did poison joeffery, wouldn't it be better that she waited until margery had a son so the tyrells are linked to the throne and the lannisters are out?

im completely lost now.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:50 PM   #2188
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That their daughter isn't married to the bastard moron king.
so why ask for the marriage in the first place? yes they didn't know about how evil joeffery is. but, when sansa said how bad joeffery was, granny and margery acted like "is that it? we got this fool". and remember, margery had joeffery eating out of her hands. she can manipulate him somewhat and turn joeffery against the lannisters.
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Old 04-22-2014, 12:56 PM   #2189
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ill read the book after i watch the show. everytime u read the book, it ruins the show.

anyways, if tommen is the king, how does this benefit the tyrells? does this mean the tyrells are no longer linked to the throne? if, granny did poison joeffery, wouldn't it be better that she waited until margery had a son so the tyrells are linked to the throne and the lannisters are out?

im completely lost now.

Maergery's first husband, Renley Baratheon, was murdered. Granted, Renley was married to her and boning her brother, but that is neither here nor there. Which means originally they believed the rumors about joffrey's parentage being true, that he is the son of a brother and sister, and that a real Baratheon would have a claim to the throne.

None of the Tyrells presented so far in the show have any reason to love the Lannisters. Vengeance is a very real motive for them. But Joffrey off the throne opens up opportunities, and in some ways ties the Lannisters more firmly to the Tyrells. Gold and food has been a theme this season. Who has both?

You have to remember the show is called Game of Thrones. Every single house with a name is playing. The Tyrells want the Iron Throne as much as the Lannisters, Baratheons or Targaryens do.

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Old 04-22-2014, 12:57 PM   #2190
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so why ask for the marriage in the first place? yes they didn't know about how evil joeffery is. but, when sansa said how bad joeffery was, granny and margery acted like "is that it? we got this fool". and remember, margery had joeffery eating out of her hands. she can manipulate him somewhat and turn joeffery against the lannisters.
That would never happen. Joffrey probably would have had Maergery killed at some point. He is the epitome of entitled evil bastard. The worst thing you can do is assume you know how he will react. If his grandfather could not control him, there is no way his wife could.

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Old 04-22-2014, 01:24 PM   #2191
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Maergery's first husband, Renley Baratheon, was murdered. Granted, Renley was married to her and boning her brother, but that is neither here nor there. Which means originally they believed the rumors about joffrey's parentage being true, that he is the son of a brother and sister, and that a real Baratheon would have a claim to the throne.

None of the Tyrells presented so far in the show have any reason to love the Lannisters. Vengeance is a very real motive for them. But Joffrey off the throne opens up opportunities, and in some ways ties the Lannisters more firmly to the Tyrells. Gold and food has been a theme this season. Who has both?

You have to remember the show is called Game of Thrones. Every single house with a name is playing. The Tyrells want the Iron Throne as much as the Lannisters, Baratheons or Targaryens do.

ok, u gotta explain it to me from the perspective of the show and not the book. what reason does the tyrells hate the lannisters and want vengeance?

i see it this way, any chance the tyrells had of capturing the throne died with joeffery. their only shot was her to have his son and the king dying making the tyrells owners of the throne.

i understand the tyrells knew about joeffery, but they clearly thought all was lost when renley died. so they ran over to lannisters. if anything, it should be the lannisters who want vengeance since the tyrells try to stand against them.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:26 PM   #2192
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That would never happen. Joffrey probably would have had Maergery killed at some point. He is the epitome of entitled evil bastard. The worst thing you can do is assume you know how he will react. If his grandfather could not control him, there is no way his wife could.

you're correct, if and only if margery wasn't even more evil than he is. granny and margery is way too smart.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:33 PM   #2193
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It's kind of funny watching you non readers stumble around like drunk midgets trying to figure out what's going on.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:41 PM   #2194
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Cersei is the Dowager Queen, due to her husband dying. She is only queen regent because her unmarried (at the time) son lacked a wife. As soon as they said I do, or Joffrey becomes of age, she ceases/d to be queen.

Tommen is the king. At the moment. Maybe.

And you really need to read the books. There is so much the show cannot cover that you miss.

Cersei is Queen Regent again, because she is the mother of the new king, Tommen, who has not yet come of age. Of course, the Lannisters have to get on the stick and hold a Coronation.

Margery's problem is that she and Joffrey said the words, but did not do the deed. Medieval cultures (including Westros) placed great store in "the Bedding".. "No Bedding, no Wedding".

Of course, Stanis' camp would say Tommen is illegitimate and the spawn of incest, therefore not fit to sit the Iron Throne.

Danny is the Last Targarian (as of right now in the HBO timeline), and there are still characters in Westros who assert Robert's rebellion was unlawful, and all that has happened since is moot, under the law.

The Starks are all but done, from what is "known": No one in the capital knows that Arya, Bran or Riccon are alive, and Sansa just disappeared. Jon Snow is a Bastard. The dream of a King in the North is on the ropes, to say the least.

The Greyjoys have a great deal of autonomy, as there is no navy capable of challenging them in the Western Sea. Balon's claim of being King of the Iron Islands is hard to dispute at this point.

And of course, Dorn is Dorn. For the non book readers, that doesn't mean squat, I realize, but suffice to say, Dorn has the most autonomy of all.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:43 PM   #2195
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It's kind of funny watching you non readers stumble around like drunk midgets trying to figure out what's going on.
That's the fun.
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:44 PM   #2196
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Cersei is Queen Regent again, because she is the mother of the new king, Tommen, who has not yet come of age. Of course, the Lannisters have to get on the stick and hold a Coronation.

Margery's problem is that she and Joffrey said the words, but did not do the deed. Medieval cultures (including Westros) placed great store in "the Bedding".. "No Bedding, no Wedding".

Of course, Stanis' camp would say Tommen is illegitimate and the spawn of incest, therefore not fit to sit the Iron Throne.

Danny is the Last Targarian (as of right now in the HBO timeline), and there are still characters in Westros who assert Robert's rebellion was unlawful, and all that has happened since is moot, under the law.

The Starks are all but done, from what is "known": No one in the capital knows that Arya, Bran or Riccon are alive, and Sansa just disappeared. Jon Snow is a Bastard. The dream of a King in the North is on the ropes, to say the least.

The Greyjoys have a great deal of autonomy, as there is no navy capable of challenging them in the Western Sea. Balon's claim of being King of the Iron Islands is hard to dispute at this point.

And of course, Dorn is Dorn. For the non book readers, that doesn't mean squat, I realize, but suffice to say, Dorn has the most autonomy of all.
I am none book reader, but I know that during the war of conquest Dorne was not included for some reason and was actually brought into the "7 Kingdoms" through diplomacy
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Old 04-22-2014, 01:45 PM   #2197
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It's kind of funny watching you non readers stumble around like drunk midgets trying to figure out what's going on.
They're also spared some of the aggravation and anticipation, though.

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Old 04-22-2014, 02:06 PM   #2198
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So who poisoned Joffrey? My girlfriend thinks it was the fool who gave Sansa the necklace. Or Sansa herself.
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Old 04-22-2014, 02:38 PM   #2199
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Cersei is Queen Regent again, because she is the mother of the new king, Tommen, who has not yet come of age. Of course, the Lannisters have to get on the stick and hold a Coronation.

Margery's problem is that she and Joffrey said the words, but did not do the deed. Medieval cultures (including Westros) placed great store in "the Bedding".. "No Bedding, no Wedding".

Of course, Stanis' camp would say Tommen is illegitimate and the spawn of incest, therefore not fit to sit the Iron Throne.

Danny is the Last Targarian (as of right now in the HBO timeline), and there are still characters in Westros who assert Robert's rebellion was unlawful, and all that has happened since is moot, under the law.

The Starks are all but done, from what is "known": No one in the capital knows that Arya, Bran or Riccon are alive, and Sansa just disappeared. Jon Snow is a Bastard. The dream of a King in the North is on the ropes, to say the least.

The Greyjoys have a great deal of autonomy, as there is no navy capable of challenging them in the Western Sea. Balon's claim of being King of the Iron Islands is hard to dispute at this point.

And of course, Dorn is Dorn. For the non book readers, that doesn't mean squat, I realize, but suffice to say, Dorn has the most autonomy of all.

I know. I was answering when Joffrey was still alive. It is hard to explain the show to people who have not read the books without giving anything away.

My mother and brother have frequent discussions about the paternity of a certain bastard, which I believe got covered somewhere in this thread. So crazy.


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Old 04-22-2014, 02:45 PM   #2200
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And Joffrey ends up dead.

What a coincidence, that happening when deals where made between the Lannisters and the Tyrells.

You have to ask yourself, who benefits from Joffrey dying? It is not Tywin. And obviously not Tyrion or Sansa.

Well, let's say someone originally wanted Sansa to Marry one of their kids and then the Lannisters stoled her away for the Dwarf. Killing the king after your daughter weds him, then framing Tyrion for murder and removing the last known Stark heir from their family sure seems like a nifty solution...
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