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Old 04-23-2014, 08:52 AM   #1926
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That is a great theory in that link but as someone said in the thread, there are some holes. I agree with his assumption that the Others aren't looking for genocide because isn't what happens at Hardhome exactly that?

I don't think the whole Targaryen thing plays in quite so heavily because Valyria rose and fell long after the Others disappeared and they invaded several hundred years (and visited the wall with a dragon) before their return.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:43 AM   #1927
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That is an interesting theory, Rev.
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Old 04-23-2014, 09:49 AM   #1928
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Just an interesting idea to mess with. Only a few people really know :/
No matter what, Bran is the man. He basically doubled in size from last season.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:01 AM   #1929
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Flaw in your logic:

Targ =/= Dragon

just as

Stark =/= Other
Not really, one of the core elements of that argument was that a Stark had to remain in Winterfell and married an Other. Therefore the Starks represent Ice and are a continuous factor. On the flip side, it says Daenarys is the reincarnation of AA which is in fact bad for the Others. So what makes her so special in the equation when the Targs/Valyrians controlled the lands below the Wall, had dragons, made the Starks kneel, and even took those dragons to the wall (which according to that theory was the demarcation agreed upon by the Starks and Others and the possible intrusion was a threat to the Others which got them into action.

The whole theory reads very well like a prophecy but then there is the outlier that is Dany which comes from nowhere. It would be a fantastic read and would make for an amazing twist though.

TL : DR...Dany is the square peg in the theory board full of round holes and round pegs.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:02 AM   #1930
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No matter what, Bran is the man. He basically doubled in size from last season.
He is just downright unpleasant to look at now. He used to be a cute little kid but man did puberty just smack him around.
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:16 AM   #1931
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how do we know it was the wine and not the cake?
The poison was on Sansa's necklace. Lady Olenna musses with her talking about how terrible it was that her family was killed at a wedding reception, while herself, plucking a poison pearl from the necklace. The pie was especially dry - you'll see Joffrey takes a bite and immediately calls for his cup bearer...
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Old 04-23-2014, 10:47 AM   #1932
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The thread title is very clearly labeled.
wait a minute. i usually don't watch the new episodes until the next day or tuesday. so i don't read this thread until sometime tuesday or weds. is it safe to assume you book readers wont do any spoilers that haven't yet aired on HBO?
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:02 AM   #1933
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Not even a little bit.

There's a diff thread for tv people, though.
that sucks considering the only this thread exist is because of the HBO series.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:33 AM   #1934
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I'm not seeing how you think any of that doesn't fit?

If Dany is AA and Bran is the Great Other, they're absolutely 100% offset.
I must not be grasping it but my point is that Bran makes sense due to the family name and Bran the Builder so the Starks were there from the beginning. But there is no connection between AA and the Valyrians, let alone the Targs, except for an affinity for fire.

Bran's or Jon Snow's role makes perfect sense in this theory. Dany's role as AA seems to just be because they need someone to be the counterpoint of The Great Other.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:38 PM   #1935
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How does that suck? It's helpful to YOU that there's a separate thread just for watchers.

There's a billion spoilers in the past couple pages alone...
thats alot of spoilers
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:42 PM   #1936
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thats alot of spoilers
He counted them.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:07 AM   #1937
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The description of AA fits Dany very well, actually:

"6) Daenerys Targaryen

Far and away the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (GoT, pg. 804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany’s tears. And she was ‘reborn’ in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany’s story match up with Salladhor’s? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (GoT, pg. 593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (GoT, pg. 753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo’s pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east.

But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn."
This, and the fact that the Red Priests have an uncanny fascination for her, though she hasn't encountered one as of yet, she will very soon. Is the masked women (I can't remember her name) a red priest? If so, her power to prophecy Danys turmoils, and her power to connect with her anywhere should also be considered.

One Billion and One
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Old 04-25-2014, 05:55 AM   #1938
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Just got caught up with the TV series last night.

The main thing that strikes me is the streamlining. Obviously, Strong Belwas is out and I'm now doubting, more than ever, that we'll see Coldhands since Bran's vision has now told him exactly where to go. No real need for a "guide" at this point.

Ramsey is now charged with the taking of Moat Cailin (rather than the occupation of Winterfell) so the whole Mance Rayder traveling troupe thing may be out.

Interesting that Jon Snow now has a motivation to head north of the wall (to silence the mutineers) which could change how and when that circumstance comes about.

Shae's been on a different track for some time now. And now has completely different motivation for what comes next - which, in turn should affect Tyrion's story line.

The Cersei rape thing was far more rape-like, which makes some sense since, in the series, Jaime has already been back at KL for weeks. Pretty big speed bump for him on the potential redemption trail, but on the other hand, it accelerates the distancing of those two in a more understandable manner.

Balon Greyjoy still alive and kicking? I'm assuming that's mainly because Euron and Vic are major roles that haven't been cast yet, so the writers don't want to move too fast. But now I'm wondering if we'll even see them both.

I'm sure purists will be upset about one or more of those things, but it does make the show more interesting and unpredictable since it's now telling a somewhat different story.

I'm assuming the endpoint remains the same, whatever that may turn out to be, but who knows?
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:21 AM   #1939
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Originally Posted by Old Dude View Post
Just got caught up with the TV series last night.

The main thing that strikes me is the streamlining. Obviously, Strong Belwas is out and I'm now doubting, more than ever, that we'll see Coldhands since Bran's vision has now told him exactly where to go. No real need for a "guide" at this point.

Ramsey is now charged with the taking of Moat Cailin (rather than the occupation of Winterfell) so the whole Mance Rayder traveling troupe thing may be out.

Interesting that Jon Snow now has a motivation to head north of the wall (to silence the mutineers) which could change how and when that circumstance comes about.

Shae's been on a different track for some time now. And now has completely different motivation for what comes next - which, in turn should affect Tyrion's story line.

The Cersei rape thing was far more rape-like, which makes some sense since, in the series, Jaime has already been back at KL for weeks. Pretty big speed bump for him on the potential redemption trail, but on the other hand, it accelerates the distancing of those two in a more understandable manner.

Balon Greyjoy still alive and kicking? I'm assuming that's mainly because Euron and Vic are major roles that haven't been cast yet, so the writers don't want to move too fast. But now I'm wondering if we'll even see them both.

I'm sure purists will be upset about one or more of those things, but it does make the show more interesting and unpredictable since it's now telling a somewhat different story.

I'm assuming the endpoint remains the same, whatever that may turn out to be, but who knows?
Considering that HBO now knows the ending, I'm reading into deviations much more than I would otherwise. The way I see it is that as of the 3rd season, which I believe is when GRRM really spelled out his vision to them, any character that doesn't show up is nixed for budget or just doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. I'm beginning to think that Coldhands falls under the latter. It's not the first character that the readers fell in love with that GRRM doesn't care about.
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:25 AM   #1940
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I wonder if they're setting up Shae to take Tysha's place with Tyrion?
Haven't they already mentioned that Tyrion was previously married in a small council meeting?
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:29 AM   #1941
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Haven't they already mentioned that Tyrion was previously married in a small council meeting?
Yes, I'm pretty sure they even mentioned her in the first few episodes.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:18 AM   #1942
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I meant more of take her place as the lost love he's still searching for, but yeah, never mind
I still think they use her in that storyline as the lost love "where do whores go" when he goes east. Will be upset if they don't play out the book storyline with Shae.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:20 AM   #1943
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Lena Headey just dropped a potential spoiler regarding a certain lady's heart.

http://instagram.com/p/nEeNM0PA3L/#

Last edited by Johnykbr; 04-25-2014 at 11:29 AM..
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:23 AM   #1944
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Will be upset if they don't play out the book storyline with Shae.
Big time for me. I loved the fact that he makes some characters that just you think have changed for the better then you find out they had no redeeming qualities.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:24 AM   #1945
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Here it is... One of my favorite scenes, actually...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfClyxJOHA
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:45 AM   #1946
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Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
The description of AA fits Dany very well, actually:

"6) Daenerys Targaryen

Far and away the most likely candidate for Azor Ahai, Dany fits all the requirements. She awoke the dragons out of her petrified stone eggs, on the very night she spotted the comet for the first time. (GoT, pg. 804). That night, there was smoke from the funeral pyre and salt from Dany’s tears. And she was ‘reborn’ in the sense that she emerged from the fire a stronger person--a leader whom the Dothraki would follow.

But how does Dany’s story match up with Salladhor’s? Well, one suggestion has been that her dragons are actually Lightbringer, because they can produce fire. This makes a great amount of sense. Like Azor Ahai, Dany tried three times to make her weapon--once while putting them on a brazier (GoT, pg. 593), once while coming out of her fevered nightmares (GoT, pg. 753-754), and finally succeeding on the third try at Drogo’s pyre. Also, like Azor Ahai, Dany sacrificed her spouse to make her weapon, and drew the weapon out of a fire.

Other people merely think that Lightbringer is still a sword, and perhaps Dany will find it elsewhere, maybne in Asshai or far east.

But the fact remains that, of all the candidates, Dany is the only one who has woken dragons out of stone. Unless another character is going to accomplish the same thing, Dany seems like a safe bet to be Azor Ahai reborn."
Jon's last scene in the most recent book has a bleeding star, smoke/steam rising, and salt(tears). Given that R + L = J holds true he is of the blood of the dragon as well. If the PtwP/AA are one in the same it has to be Jon. He has both Ice and Fire in his blood. Dany has no connection to ice. I really think it's Jon.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:47 AM   #1947
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I meant more of take her place as the lost love he's still searching for, but yeah, never mind

You're probably spot on, I was just confirming TJs incination. The reason you may be on to something though is the sheer disconnect between show and novel that can only be breached by altered story lines like your suggestion, and that's the inability of film to portray thought. Most of Tyrions struggle is internal, and there is almost no way of showing that without tweaking the story some line you suggested. First of all, it would be easier for the show watchers to relate, and second it would give the writers a means of circumventing his constant forelorn thoughts.

I'm also assuming they have just axed the character of Penny as well.
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Old 04-25-2014, 11:53 AM   #1948
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Jon's last scene in the most recent book has a bleeding star, smoke/steam rising, and salt(tears). Given that R + L = J holds true he is of the blood of the dragon as well. If the PtwP/AA are one in the same it has to be Jon. He has both Ice and Fire in his blood. Dany has no connection to ice. I really think it's Jon.

I think you missed something. The idea is that Azar Ahi is supposed to be a champion of Rhollar, and therefore a fire focused individual. So, Jon being ice and fire wouldn't be that person.
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:08 PM   #1949
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Perhaps Jon is Azor Ahai AND the Great Other?

/just spitballin' here
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:48 PM   #1950
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Perhaps Jon is Azor Ahai AND the Great Other?

/just spitballin' here
What about Jamie? Isn't there some disconnect as to whether or not he and Cersei are acctually Tiwans children? I thought Kevan Lannister was alluding to that fact when he was talking to someone in ADWD.
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