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Old 05-07-2013, 12:40 PM   #1451
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That was literally the first one I mentioned...
Strange. For some reason I just saw Tyrion and Jon. But good observation nonetheless. I was just thinking about this one a couple of weeks ago after Dany's big episode and wondering if it meant something (of course it does...)
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:43 PM   #1452
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The thing that most worries me is that they'll lose actors (and have to replace them with others) if the series goes too many seasons. Related to that is the question of whether and how quickly Martin can get the remaining books out.

We know they've been given the go-ahead for season 4 and that this will probably take us through the second half of the third book, but after that, it gets funky.
As I recall, the 4th and 5th books take place at the same time, don't they? I'm curious how they handle that. I have to believe they'll script them out that way - how can they go an entire season without so many characters like was done in the books...
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:56 PM   #1453
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Well, they are going to follow A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons combined coronologically, so that should stream line those two books into let's say 3/4 seasons. That puts us in 2016/2017 with the new book Winds of Winter out, and word is GRRM has the 7th book layed out, he just just needs to flesh out the story. Give 2 seasons for Winds of Winter and your in 2018/2019; hopefully the books will be out by then.

It does pose some interesting problems, with Brans balls already droping, and Arya getting older, but they casted a guy in his mid 20s to play Gendry, so who cares. It's not like they stuck to the accurate ages of the characters to begin with. Lets face it, Rob is supposed to be 16, Sansa 13, and the list continues.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:58 PM   #1454
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As I recall, the 4th and 5th books take place at the same time, don't they? I'm curious how they handle that. I have to believe they'll script them out that way - how can they go an entire season without so many characters like was done in the books...
I'm fairly certain they have said they are going to combine the two.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:04 PM   #1455
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Strange. For some reason I just saw Tyrion and Jon. But good observation nonetheless. I was just thinking about this one a couple of weeks ago after Dany's big episode and wondering if it meant something (of course it does...)
Don't forget about Dany
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:59 PM   #1456
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I'm fairly certain they have said they are going to combine the two.
They almost have to. Otherwise they have half their cast twiddling their thumbs for a year.

Still, it's going to require an awful lot of work from a screenwriter's standpoint. It's not just a matter of rearranging things in chronological order. They'll need to do some major work on some of those subplots to keep the cast size from getting completely out of hand.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:04 PM   #1457
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We're in season three. I don't see how HBO can sustain the series more than six seasons. I suppose seven is technically reasonable, and very normal for network TV, but not as normal for cable. And abnormal for HBO, who is apparently having their budget stretched to the limit for the series. The Sopranos barely made six and that was shot in Jersey.

My hope is they go like five seasons and then do a movie.
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Old 05-07-2013, 03:05 PM   #1458
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Well, they are going to follow A Feast For Crows and A Dance with Dragons combined coronologically, so that should stream line those two books into let's say 3/4 seasons. That puts us in 2016/2017 with the new book Winds of Winter out, and word is GRRM has the 7th book layed out, he just just needs to flesh out the story. Give 2 seasons for Winds of Winter and your in 2018/2019; hopefully the books will be out by then.

It does pose some interesting problems, with Brans balls already droping, and Arya getting older, but they casted a guy in his mid 20s to play Gendry, so who cares. It's not like they stuck to the accurate ages of the characters to begin with. Lets face it, Rob is supposed to be 16, Sansa 13, and the list continues.
Beric Dondarrion is 21 in the books.
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Old 05-07-2013, 04:03 PM   #1459
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Beric Dondarrion is 21 in the books.
Wow, I totally didn't catch that. Interesting
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Old 05-07-2013, 11:28 PM   #1460
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They almost have to. Otherwise they have half their cast twiddling their thumbs for a year.

Still, it's going to require an awful lot of work from a screenwriter's standpoint. It's not just a matter of rearranging things in chronological order. They'll need to do some major work on some of those subplots to keep the cast size from getting completely out of hand.
They will, again my recollection is linked to what I believe was a co-interview between the writers and GRRM. They said they wanted to keep things fluid, and George was pretty pleased by with the idea of altering the chronology. I'll see if I can't find the interview tomorrow, and post it for you guys.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:52 AM   #1461
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We're in season three. I don't see how HBO can sustain the series more than six seasons. I suppose seven is technically reasonable, and very normal for network TV, but not as normal for cable. And abnormal for HBO, who is apparently having their budget stretched to the limit for the series. The Sopranos barely made six and that was shot in Jersey.

My hope is they go like five seasons and then do a movie.
Don't forget Rome, Deadwood and other "big" mini-series that HBO has dumped on after 4 seasons. I expect that this won't end well for viewers unless one of the big network jumps in.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:30 AM   #1462
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Don't forget Rome, Deadwood and other "big" mini-series that HBO has dumped on after 4 seasons. I expect that this won't end well for viewers unless one of the big network jumps in.
Rome and Deadwood may have had the soaring reviews like GoT but they didn't have the viewers like it. Also, GoT blu-rays and DVD sales are through the roof.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:09 AM   #1463
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I'm starting to get worried how they are going to approach Sansa leave King's Landing. Ser Dontos hasn't been seen last season and Little Finger supposedly left.

My wife is beginning to equate this show to True Blood which is apparently now so far away from the books that the show runners have admitted they are just doing their own thing now.

This seems pretty straight forward to me. Dontos sneaks her to whereever Littlefinger has a ship ready. He doesn't really have to be on the ship, he just needs to hire a captain/crew that will bring her to the Eyrie after silencing Dontos.

It's a minor change, but it still has the same end result.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:24 AM   #1464
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As for a Feast for Crows/Dance with Dragons. I don't see that being more than two seasons. Feast was pretty brutal at times in terms of sheer boringness, mainly because of all the new characters. A lot of that can be done much quicker on a TV show, so half of that book probably can be summed up in a few episodes. And it's kind of the same thing in Dance to a degree.

I thought Martin really struggled with both books, at least compared to the first three. If they cherry pick storylines, and omit others, it might even be an improvement, though Dance started to pick things back up.

But, I mean, do we really need to spend time with the Sand Snakes? Is Darkstar really all that important to the overall storyline? Does anyone really give a flying crap about either of the princesses in Dorne? Is the ridiculous Quentyn arc really necessary? And how much time really needs to be spent on Daenerys and her social life in Meereen?

They can really trim the fat on those books, and they probably need to.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:57 AM   #1465
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Generally speaking, that's my feeling as well. The series will probably peak at the end of season 4. I'd hate to see them waste all that momentum on too many secondary and tertiary characters and subplots.

If they really feel a need to address more of that stuff, maybe they could add it as "extra" features for DVD sales.

Personally, I'd prefer to see all of book 4 and the corresponding background portion of book 5 collapsed into a single season.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:58 AM   #1466
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Rome and Deadwood may have had the soaring reviews like GoT but they didn't have the viewers like it. Also, GoT blu-rays and DVD sales are through the roof.
Rome also got torpedoed by the writers striker.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:39 AM   #1467
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Rome and Deadwood may have had the soaring reviews like GoT but they didn't have the viewers like it. Also, GoT blu-rays and DVD sales are through the roof.
And they could be so much better if HBO had a better way to watch their programing.

http://screenrant.com/most-pirated-t...-thrones-2012/
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:36 PM   #1468
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As for a Feast for Crows/Dance with Dragons. I don't see that being more than two seasons. Feast was pretty brutal at times in terms of sheer boringness, mainly because of all the new characters. A lot of that can be done much quicker on a TV show, so half of that book probably can be summed up in a few episodes. And it's kind of the same thing in Dance to a degree.

I thought Martin really struggled with both books, at least compared to the first three. If they cherry pick storylines, and omit others, it might even be an improvement, though Dance started to pick things back up.

But, I mean, do we really need to spend time with the Sand Snakes? Is Darkstar really all that important to the overall storyline? Does anyone really give a flying crap about either of the princesses in Dorne? Is the ridiculous Quentyn arc really necessary? And how much time really needs to be spent on Daenerys and her social life in Meereen?

They can really trim the fat on those books, and they probably need to.
Dorne is very important to the progression of the story, and I have a feeling the Sandsnakes will become bigger characters once Danny makes it Westeros. Darkstar has all of the physical features of a Targaryan, so there could be something there. I think Quintyn story explains how Euron happens upon his horn. All in all, both books set up a lot of future events.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:45 PM   #1469
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Dorne is very important to the progression of the story, and I have a feeling the Sandsnakes will become bigger characters once Danny makes it Westeros. Darkstar has all of the physical features of a Targaryan, so there could be something there. I think Quintyn story explains how Euron happens upon his horn. All in all, both books set up a lot of future events.
Not disputing that there are reasons Martin introduced them. Just disputing whether the show needs to introduce them or discuss them in the way Martin did. I expect an awful lot of the laborous backstory building to be trimmed away. I actually like what they're doing now with Gendry and Grey Worm to streamline the show, at the expense of Strong Belwas and Edric Storm. In the books I prefer the massive amount of characters, but they already can't give some major players like Bran and the freakin' dire wolves enough air time and development.

Feast was a tedious book for me, that never rose to the level of the others, if the show falls into that trap, it won't recover. I do think there are twenty quality episodes to be found between Feast and Dance, but the producers will have to be creative to craft them.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #1470
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Dorne is very important to the progression of the story, and I have a feeling the Sandsnakes will become bigger characters once Danny makes it Westeros. Darkstar has all of the physical features of a Targaryan, so there could be something there. I think Quintyn story explains how Euron happens upon his horn. All in all, both books set up a lot of future events.
Ohhhhhh there's something there:

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Darkstar is Rhaegar. Look at it.

First, the appearance. Both are described as having silver hair and most importantly dark purple eyes​, no doubt if Rhaegar had darkened a lock of his hair it would have added to the effect. (See ADwD Chap: Griffon Reborn, in which JonCon notices that Aegon has lighter eyes than the Dornish Elia and dark purple eyed Rhaegar [one bit of proof showing 'Aegon' is fake])
They are also both described as having 'Iron Tones in his voice' (in Rhaegars case) or 'A Cruel Mouth, and an even crueler tongue' (In Darkstar's case)

Next: The Name. Two of Rhaegars closest friends on the Kings Guard were Gerold Hightower (the White Bull) and Arthur Dayne (The Sword of the Morning), now compare those two to Darkstar's real name.
Gerold Dayne
It seems odd for a man from Dorne to name their son a Reach name, considering they are enemies.

Unless Darkstar is really just an alias for Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. If he had sent a double to the Trident(A man with Valaryian Traits) it could explain how he was defeated so easily by Robert Baratheon. And if the double had taken a blow to the face then there wouldn't be much to recognize him as Rhaegar. The real Rhaegar is in Dorne at this time, waiting for Lyanna to give birth to AAR (Read: Jon Snow) which also makes the fact that Ned met three kingsguard members (Including arguably the two most skilled). When Ned came Rhaegar was away, possibly in Starfall. When word reached him (through Ned's visit) that Lyanna had died he met with Doran. He then becomes Gerold Dayne, Darkstar, of the Night. Which Rhaegar is. He is of the end of the Targaryen line, the 'night' you could say.

He then proceeds to join the group of plotters to crown Myrcella at Doran's command after the Prince catches wind of it. Because of the hate for the Lannisters he slashes at Myrcella but misses.

Darkstar's age is never stated, and people can still be considered handsome at an old age. Tyrion still considers Septon Lemore handsome, even though she is well within her fourties.

And the whole 'Luke Skywalker' comment by that Alfie Allen made concerning Jon Snow's parents. Luke's father is Darth Vader.

Darth Vader,
Darkstar,

Notice the similarities? And like Anikan Skywalker Rhaegar has assumed a different identity if R=DS is true.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:56 PM   #1471
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Not disputing that there are reasons Martin introduced them. Just disputing whether the show needs to introduce them or discuss them in the way Martin did. I expect an awful lot of the laborous backstory building to be trimmed away. I actually like what they're doing now with Gendry and Grey Worm to streamline the show, at the expense of Strong Belwas and Edric Storm. In the books I prefer the massive amount of characters, but they already can't give some major players like Bran and the freakin' dire wolves enough air time and development.

Feast was a tedious book for me, that never rose to the level of the others, if the show falls into that trap, it won't recover. I do think there are twenty quality episodes to be found between Feast and Dance, but the producers will have to be creative to craft them.

Well they are already developing Reek, which trims down on DWD. I think the climatic nature of book three is going dig the hoks deep in many casual television fans. Between Sams journey, Johns ascent, Danny's troubles, Tyrions travels, the crazyness that unfolds in Dorne, Briennes perels, Cerseis treachery, the kingsmoot, Loris, and Arya; they have plenty of quality stuff to keep people interested. There is a lot of action when you can delete travel chapters where Brienne is just being suspicious, the princess of Dorne is in a room ect. There is acctually quite a bit of nonstop action when you line the books up.
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Old 05-09-2013, 12:00 AM   #1472
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Ohhhhhh there's something there:
This is the type of fan fiction that, once read, skews expectations. It seems so epic, but it's just a guess. A wild one at that.

If he is actually still alive this story moves into Dune territory.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:39 AM   #1473
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This is the type of fan fiction that, once read, skews expectations. It seems so epic, but it's just a guess. A wild one at that.

If he is actually still alive this story moves into Dune territory.
Knowing Martin's lust for frustrating readers, he may have left him alive to no meaningful end.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:38 AM   #1474
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My guess is that he's just a miscellaneous Targ bastard. Probably some connection there, but he's way too young to be R.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:39 AM   #1475
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Knowing Martin's lust for frustrating readers, he may have left him alive to no meaningful end.
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