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Old 05-14-2013, 04:53 AM   #1326
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The Wildings have a few things going for them this time around that they probably didn't in past attempts:

1. Giants
2. A seriously diminished Nightwatch. (Even more diminished after the battle against the walkers and the subsequent mutiny at Craster's Keep.)
3. Westeros still in a state of civil war.
4. A long winter is presumably on its way and these folks are more adapted to that kind of environment.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:46 AM   #1327
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The Wildings have a few things going for them this time around that they probably didn't in past attempts:

1. Giants
2. A seriously diminished Nightwatch. (Even more diminished after the battle against the walkers and the subsequent mutiny at Craster's Keep.)
3. Westeros still in a state of civil war.
4. A long winter is presumably on its way and these folks are more adapted to that kind of environment.
if I remember correctly Giants, the presence of walkers, and winter/fertile land have always been apart of Wildlings unified assaults. Many of them date back to the age of heros, with the likes of Brandon the Builder, and (insert Stark here). The Dragons seem to be the key to Magic, and they have only been gone 200 years at this point in the story. I can't remember when the most recent Wildling raid took place, but I can almost guerentee that the previous 5 involved the factors you mentioned; minus the recent events of course.
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Old 05-14-2013, 07:54 AM   #1328
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if I remember correctly Giants, the presence of walkers, and winter/fertile land have always been apart of Wildlings unified assaults. Many of them date back to the age of heros, with the likes of Brandon the Builder, and (insert Stark here). The Dragons seem to be the key to Magic, and they have only been gone 200 years at this point in the story. I can't remember when the most recent Wildling raid took place, but I can almost guerentee that the previous 5 involved the factors you mentioned; minus the recent events of course.
White Walkers haven't been seen in 8,000 years. That is the new factor.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:02 AM   #1329
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White Walkers haven't been seen in 8,000 years. That is the new factor.
Well ****, at least we know they had Giants.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:10 AM   #1330
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So... Jeyne (or at least her counterpart on the show) is definitely pregnant. This was a point of much speculation because it is never spelled out in the books, and could have big consequences for the story going forward.
Not sure how I feel about this. It is a widely accepted theory that she is pregnant in the book and ran off. If she doesn't die at the Red Wedding and ends up pregnant in the book, we are potentially seeing a massive spoiler for the upcoming books.

Otherwise I enjoyed the episode. I don't mind the torture scenes (how else do we get Reek?) but the sex scene was definitely GRRM'esque and didn't need to be so long.

Stars of the episode were Jaime, Dany, and Tywin imo.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #1331
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Maybe we won't see Theon/Reek or Ramsay again until season 5. That would be nice.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:14 AM   #1332
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Huge spoiler! Don't press play unless you want to see how Tywin end up.

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Old 05-14-2013, 09:23 AM   #1333
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Well ****, at least we know they had Giants.
Not sure where you're getting that.

King Beyond the Wall Joramun supposedly woke the giants with a horn about 8,000 yrs ago, but he wasn't really involved in an invasion of Westeros. On the contrary, he joined up with the Starks to bring down the Night's King.


About 3000 years ago, Kings beyond the Wall Gendel and Gorne invaded, but that was accomplished by digging under the Wall. (Storm of Swords, Chapter 26) No mention of giants.


About 184 AL Raymun Redbeard led an invasion, accomplished by sending a raiding party to climb the wall and send down ropes & ladders. (Clash of Kings, ch 23, DoD chap 7). Again, no mention of giants.

I can't find any reference to the other times the Wildlings supposedly invaded.

We do know that Wildlings have occasionally interacted with giants before Mance united everyone, but I can't find anything that says they raided the south together and it seems pretty unlikely give the methods referenced. (Very hard to lift a mammoth up over the wall or to dig a tunnel big enough for it.)
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:30 AM   #1334
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Not sure how I feel about this. It is a widely accepted theory that she is pregnant in the book and ran off. If she doesn't die at the Red Wedding and ends up pregnant in the book, we are potentially seeing a massive spoiler for the upcoming books.

...
I recently came across speculation concerning a gigantic spoiler involving all of this. Most of the time, when I read theories about this or that, I kind of shrug and say hmmn ... maybe ... maybe not ... and move on. The theory I'm talking about here, however, is extraordinarily well-developed but it would involve such a huge spoiler that I don't even want to post it on the thread. If it's correct, we'll know by season's end.

People who want to get spoiled are welcome to PM me and I'll send the link.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:34 AM   #1335
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People who want to get spoiled are welcome to PM me and I'll send the link.
I just shot you off one, I would love to read about it.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:50 AM   #1336
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Its not the R+L=J or anything like that is it?
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Old 05-14-2013, 11:07 AM   #1337
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it was a great episode. When Brianne says, "Sir Jamie" the acting IMO was top notch and you could see how much it meant to him in his eyes.

People told me Jamie Lannister had a great story arch and we are starting to see it. He's regaining himself. It's obvious its the dad of the family who screwed all the kids up.
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Old 05-14-2013, 12:59 PM   #1338
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Either way it's a spoiler since we should know pretty definitively that she's pregnant or not based on the direction they go.

I think its a good thing. They SHOULD be giving viewers that have read the books new content to enjoy. What difference does it make if we read the spoiler in book 6/7 or see it now? In fact, now we get to debate whether it's real or not. Kinda makes it more fun.
There's a theory that she's basically Jeyne and Sybell Spicer rolled into one, and she's aSPOILER: ( spy working for the Lannisters. I hadn't noticed, but apparently she's writing letters nearly every time she's on screen. In that case, she may be lying about being pregnant. )
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:02 PM   #1339
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I watched the episode again last night, and I have to say that it ranks pretty high in my favorite episodes. GRRM really packed in a lot of meaning in this one. There's a lot of emotion and character development/revealation in it. Arya saying that her one true god is death. Sansa and Maergery's discussion - and Sansa still so naive. Osha's tale of her husband - which is amazing coming straight from GRRM. "Ser" Jaime. The boy king and the pimp hand. Tyrion pleading with Shae. Clyburn and Jaime's discussion. Robb and Talisa. This episode was chock full of character development and revelations.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:18 PM   #1340
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Everyone (and me) in this thread is currently nerd raging over that
Did this happen in the book? If not, it was a good change especially in light of their interactions later in the series.
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Old 05-14-2013, 01:56 PM   #1341
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Did this happen in the book? If not, it was a good change especially in light of their interactions later in the series.
Yes, it happened in the books as well.
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Old 05-14-2013, 02:06 PM   #1342
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Did this happen in the book? If not, it was a good change especially in light of their interactions later in the series.
Rev is referring to the spelling.
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:17 PM   #1343
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lol Jaime

Talisa got dat ass in this episode. So good, better than those Dreadfort skanks
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Old 05-14-2013, 03:53 PM   #1344
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:17 PM   #1345
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Rev is referring to the spelling.
Yes, I know it's supposed to be Ser. I just didn't remember that in the book.
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:24 PM   #1346
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Yes, I know it's supposed to be Ser. I just didn't remember that in the book.
Jamie =/= Jaime
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Old 05-14-2013, 04:26 PM   #1347
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Sexy is Coming.

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Old 05-14-2013, 09:45 PM   #1348
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(Swoon) Of his forked mustacio! (swoon)

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Old 05-14-2013, 09:54 PM   #1349
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Not sure where you're getting that.

King Beyond the Wall Joramun supposedly woke the giants with a horn about 8,000 yrs ago, but he wasn't really involved in an invasion of Westeros. On the contrary, he joined up with the Starks to bring down the Night's King.


About 3000 years ago, Kings beyond the Wall Gendel and Gorne invaded, but that was accomplished by digging under the Wall. (Storm of Swords, Chapter 26) No mention of giants.


About 184 AL Raymun Redbeard led an invasion, accomplished by sending a raiding party to climb the wall and send down ropes & ladders. (Clash of Kings, ch 23, DoD chap 7). Again, no mention of giants.

I can't find any reference to the other times the Wildlings supposedly invaded.

We do know that Wildlings have occasionally interacted with giants before Mance united everyone, but I can't find anything that says they raided the south together and it seems pretty unlikely give the methods referenced. (Very hard to lift a mammoth up over the wall or to dig a tunnel big enough for it.)
Well, now that the Giants are disputed I have no legs to stand on. I based my argument on circumstantial evidence that Giants existed beyond the wall, but were rare, natives if the frost fangs, beyond the common man. I guess I assumed any great leader would utilize every asset of at their disposal. Do we have circumstantial evidence outside one raid to suggest against the involvement of giants? GRRM wrote the last episode of the show, and Jon esplicitly mentioned 6 previous attacks on the wall, it wasn't in the books.
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Old 05-15-2013, 07:09 AM   #1350
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Of the reasons I mentioned above, giants are probably the least of it. It's not clear how many have joined the Wildlings, but we're talking about dozens rather than thousands.

They'd make nice shock troops, but a squad of crossbowmen could probably take out any of them with a clear field of fire. I think they might be more useful as field engineers.

The biggest issue, by far, is the civil war. The Stark forces at Winterfell have historically been the bane of these invasions, but those forces (that aren't already dead) are far to the south. Most of the fleet went down at Blackwater. The Ironborn are causing their own problems on the western shores. Provisions and supply are going to be a problem with the mess in the Riverlands. Many of the troops are pinned down in combat or protecting strongholds from their rivals.

And, of course, a new player in the game has it's own bargaining power.
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