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Old 04-12-2013, 10:11 AM   #1276
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If GRRm is smart (and he is) he won't answer all of these questions. He'll leave half of them open ended so that in 100 years when people are talking about this piece of literature, they'll have as much fun as we have now theorycrafting the plot lines and characters and their intentions.
I disagree. I want the series to end with Howard the Duck leading an army of Dark Overlords into the Realm.

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Old 04-12-2013, 10:30 AM   #1277
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What do you guys think Ghosts red eyes mean?

The other wolves have yellow eyes.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:36 AM   #1278
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What do you guys think Ghosts red eyes mean?

The other wolves have yellow eyes.
I think it means he's an albino. Albino's have red eyes.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:50 AM   #1279
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Can anyone else confirm or deny that Spoiler ( sam gets skinny ) End spoiler
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:08 AM   #1280
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SPOILER: ( Drogo only seemed to play lip service to the notion of actually sailing over to Westeros until the assassination. Also, it seems like the Khal's come and go since they are always fighting each other. Of course the big hole in that is that Varys encouraged the assassination attempt, didn't he? )
But these things are not at all inconsistent. Spoiler: (Illyrio brokers a marriage between Dany and Drogo with the objective of gaining the Dothraki horde as allies for a subsequent invasion of Westeros. Thatís certainly how the plan is sold to Danyís brother, Viserys.

As you noted, the problem is that, after the marriage, Drogo is in no rush to cooperate. He has no particular stake in Westeros and he still has easy pickings all over Essos. When Viserys calls him on this, Viserys gets the Gatoraid treatment with molten gold.

So, somethingís gotta be done to motivate Khal Drogo in the proper direction.

An assassination attempt, traceable directly to King Robert, would do the trick, provided that it fails. Varys is in a perfect position to pull this off. He encourages the attempt, which he directs (probably employing a second-rate poisoner to be his dupe.) At the same time, he warns his personal spy, Mormont, thatís itís coming and when and how. Mormont steps in and saves Dany (and the unborn child) and, coincidentally, steps up a rung on the trust latter. It works exactly as planned. Drogo is infuriated by the attempt and assumes that Robertís never going to stop, so he tells Dany that itís now officially ďonĒ with Westeros. Well, at least as soon as his son is born and they can gather up enough loot to get some boats.

And the whole maneuver would have worked if Drogo hadnít been subsequently injured and then vegetated by the queen of medical malpractice
.)
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:10 AM   #1281
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lol at "queen of medical malpractice"
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:43 AM   #1282
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But these things are not at all inconsistent. Spoiler: (Illyrio brokers a marriage between Dany and Drogo with the objective of gaining the Dothraki horde as allies for a subsequent invasion of Westeros. Thatís certainly how the plan is sold to Danyís brother, Viserys.

As you noted, the problem is that, after the marriage, Drogo is in no rush to cooperate. He has no particular stake in Westeros and he still has easy pickings all over Essos. When Viserys calls him on this, Viserys gets the Gatoraid treatment with molten gold.

So, somethingís gotta be done to motivate Khal Drogo in the proper direction.

An assassination attempt, traceable directly to King Robert, would do the trick, provided that it fails. Varys is in a perfect position to pull this off. He encourages the attempt, which he directs (probably employing a second-rate poisoner to be his dupe.) At the same time, he warns his personal spy, Mormont, thatís itís coming and when and how. Mormont steps in and saves Dany (and the unborn child) and, coincidentally, steps up a rung on the trust latter. It works exactly as planned. Drogo is infuriated by the attempt and assumes that Robertís never going to stop, so he tells Dany that itís now officially ďonĒ with Westeros. Well, at least as soon as his son is born and they can gather up enough loot to get some boats.

And the whole maneuver would have worked if Drogo hadnít been subsequently injured and then vegetated by the queen of medical malpractice
.)
SPOILER: ( That makes sense. How do their plans with Aegon figure into Dany and the Dothraki attacking Westeros, though? )
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:56 AM   #1283
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SPOILER: ( That makes sense. How do their plans with Aegon figure into Dany and the Dothraki attacking Westeros, though? )
This is still the million dollar question in my mind. Not to mention who the hell the kid actually is.

If he's actually a Targ (which I don't personally believe he is), then Varys has been involved in some evil, evil plots, and somehow had an imposter kid placed directly in Gregor Clegane's murderous path.
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:41 PM   #1284
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SPOILER: ( That makes sense. How do their plans with Aegon figure into Dany and the Dothraki attacking Westeros, though? )
Speculation Spoiler: (I think the primary plan, early on, is to put Aegon on the throne. Assuming that Aegon is Rhaegarís kid, heís technically the rightful heir and has a better claim than either Viseys or Dany, who are basically his aunt and uncle. Via Connington, Varys has had de facto custody of the kid for many years and a lot of effort has been spent to shape the kidís character and education.

Viserys, on the other hand, was already 7 years old when his brother, Rhaegar, was killed, so a lot of his personality was already formed. In addition, Viserys and Dany were originally taken to safety by Willem Darry (to Braavos). King Robert didnít want to mess with Braavos, so he initially left them alone. Subsequently, Derry died from an illness and the Targs were left nearly destitute when their own servants robbed them. They lost their house and had to hit the road, bouncing for a few years from one potential benefactor to another. So, unlike the situation with Aegon, itís hardly a controlled environment and itís pretty well established that by the time we meet Viserys, heís already damaged goods in the morality and common sense departments. Dany, who is several years younger, isnít quite as messed up.

Itís only after all of this that Illyrio gets his hands on them and takes them in. Viserys has some value as a backup plan in case something befalls Aegon, but heís not the projected starter. The opportunity arises to broker a marriage between Aunt Dany and Drogo, in the hopes of recruiting the Dothraki biker-gang.

The final thing that we need to remember is that Illyrio and Varys are both filthy, stinking, rich.

So letís assume they need to come up with some sort of dowry to seal the marriage deal. They could supply Drogo with gold, and lots of it, but Dothraki may not be the best financial managers. The Dragon Eggs are pretty valuable and probably more easily portable than gold and treasury bonds. (And this is assuming that Illyrio and Varys think they are nothing more than inert historical artifacts.) So maybe the eggs are just a dowry, mostly symbolic, and nothing more.

Until of course, the dragons hatch, at which time, Dany becomes a much bigger pawn. But it takes Illyrio awhile to learn of this and guide ships and protective agents toward her. Unfortunately, she gets distracted with affairs on the continent, so they decide to start the attacks with Aegon while all the other chaos in Westeros is in full swing, hoping, apparently, that sheíll come running once she finds out her nephew(and the rightful heir) is in need
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Old 04-12-2013, 12:46 PM   #1285
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SPOILER: ( What this thread really needs is some advice on how to get a man's wife past the TnA enough to get her to watch it. )
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:08 PM   #1286
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SPOILER: ( What this thread really needs is some advice on how to get a man's wife past the TnA enough to get her to watch it. )
Get her to read the books so she gets into the brilliance of the story.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:11 PM   #1287
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Get her to read the books so she gets into the brilliance of the story.
That's how I did. That and she's a fan Jorah.
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Old 04-12-2013, 01:24 PM   #1288
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Get her to read the books so she gets into the brilliance of the story.
Guessing I'll have to start reading them first.

First I have to read LoTR again though.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:18 PM   #1289
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i would so get slapped in this scenario. cause as soon as the camera was gone, i'm grabbing something other than their waist

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:02 PM   #1290
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Sam Tarley doesn't look so craven in that photo.
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:11 PM   #1291
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Guessing I'll have to start reading them first.

First I have to read LoTR again though.
Honestly, I think you'll have more fun going in the other direction. I read ASOFAI and am currently in the middle of LOTR with my son. There are some theories out there that ASOFAI is basically middle earth after X amount of years. Westeros and Essos were once part of the same continent.

Here it is:
ASOIAF takes place thousands of years after LOTR, after the elves have left. The dwarves, orcs, and other races left over the millennia as the Age of Man took over, taking their magic with them. The last race to leave was the hobbits, also known as Children of the Forest. Enough time has passed over the years that the ocean slowly crept where there once was land. Valyria, located in the land that was once known as Mordor, was destroyed when Mt. Doom erupted one final time.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrone...hought/c846lfu
I don't personally believe this theory, but I've had fun trying to find clues to the truth of this as I read through the LOTR.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:13 PM   #1292
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I think it means he's an albino. Albino's have red eyes.
DamnÖyou are probably right.

I was hoping for a deeper meaning.
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Old 04-12-2013, 06:25 PM   #1293
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Just downloaded the 2nd episode, will finally get to watch it tonight.
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Old 04-12-2013, 07:44 PM   #1294
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DamnÖyou are probably right.

I was hoping for a deeper meaning.
There is deeper meaning. Ghost is white with red eyes, like the weirwood trees that serve as the eyes of the green men, or any warg with the ability to do so. I think its significant to Jon's storyline.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:53 PM   #1295
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Honestly, I think you'll have more fun going in the other direction. I read ASOFAI and am currently in the middle of LOTR with my son. There are some theories out there that ASOFAI is basically middle earth after X amount of years. Westeros and Essos were once part of the same continent.

Here it is:
ASOIAF takes place thousands of years after LOTR, after the elves have left. The dwarves, orcs, and other races left over the millennia as the Age of Man took over, taking their magic with them. The last race to leave was the hobbits, also known as Children of the Forest. Enough time has passed over the years that the ocean slowly crept where there once was land. Valyria, located in the land that was once known as Mordor, was destroyed when Mt. Doom erupted one final time.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrone...hought/c846lfu
I don't personally believe this theory, but I've had fun trying to find clues to the truth of this as I read through the LOTR.
Haha. Its nothing as conscious as all that. Kinda like you I promised my boy I'd read through LOTR again when he wanted to go through it. He just finished the Hobbit a month ago or so and is finally excited about it, so I'm locked in.
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:46 PM   #1296
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Haha. Its nothing as conscious as all that. Kinda like you I promised my boy I'd read through LOTR again when he wanted to go through it. He just finished the Hobbit a month ago or so and is finally excited about it, so I'm locked in.
Oh, I totally know how that goes. We read through the Hobbit last fall, and started LOTR in December. We're just about done with the two towers.
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Old 04-13-2013, 06:55 AM   #1297
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There is deeper meaning. Ghost is white with red eyes, like the weirwood trees that serve as the eyes of the green men, or any warg with the ability to do so. I think its significant to Jon's storyline.
I agreeÖbut Bran's wolf doesn't have that and Bran is a powerful dude...
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:48 AM   #1298
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I agreeÖbut Bran's wolf doesn't have that and Bran is a powerful dude...
You're completely right. Supporting evidence that something big is still to come with Ghost (or maybe just came at the end of Dance):

Ghost grew faster than his siblings

Bran gets told those chosen by the gods to receive different eye, hair, etc color

Weirdwoods were already mentioned... dont they represent the old gods? Ghost resembling the old gods could be extremely substantial. Or, since we're already taking crazy-out-their theories, maybe his red eyes signify that Ghost is Rhllor reborn.
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Old 04-13-2013, 08:30 AM   #1299
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I'm not a writer or avid book reader, I did read all of the GOT books though. Anyway, going over all these theories about R+L = J, or ghost having red eyes because of something special- or whatever. My hat is off to grrm and all you writers out there. All of these little sub plots, and miniature details that have to be put in place from the beginning but become after thoughts until the end etc. all of this thought out before hand is impressive. My hat is off to all ya.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:37 PM   #1300
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SPOILER: (

Love the twist that Ramsay is screwing with Theon's head by pretending to be his savior. Fits very nicely into Theon's storyline -- filling in the the "off page" bits.

)
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