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Old 03-01-2012, 02:51 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
Pretty sure they mentioned John's bloodline a few times last season. (not whom, but that there is more than you think initially.)
All I remember is John and Neds conversation when they seperated on the Kings road bound in different directions. Ned told John that the next time they met, then they would discuss his mother. Im sure that the parentage subplot will be a significant aspect of the final books, so I cant imagine the writers of the show would ignore it completely.
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Old 03-01-2012, 02:56 PM   #427
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Thats also why Im kinda curious, because they havent cast any of the three signigicant "bog people." The Reeds are crucial to the story IMO, and they have to this point been written out of the show.
I disagree. Meera and Jojen don't really do much and I expect all of those scenes of heading to the wall to be chopped outside of the one where they run into the future AA at that tower.

If Meera and Jojen are intended to eventually do something important, Martin will tell HBO and they'll be casted soon.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:02 PM   #428
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Agreed - the stuff about Jon's bloodline is still in the realm of online conspiracy theory. GRRM hasn't tipped his hand yet in this regard.
I really wish we had spoiler tags so we could go into detail about the books.
Being as vague as possible...don't read if you are adept at putting two and two together.



The last John chapter in the most recent book, and the event that transpires is directly tied to a vision someone on the other side of the world had in the second book at the house of the undying. If you have read the books and want me to clarify with specifics hit me up via pm.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:07 PM   #429
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I disagree. Meera and Jojen don't really do much and I expect all of those scenes of heading to the wall to be chopped outside of the one where they run into the future AA at that tower.

If Meera and Jojen are intended to eventually do something important, Martin will tell HBO and they'll be casted soon.
Jojen Reed is important to Bran's storyline, though I do agree his contribution could be combined into another character's storyline, probably Osha's.

However, Howlen Reed is crucial, though it is not really that big of an issue yet since he hasnt even showed up in the books yet. He is crucial to the Tv show because is the only living character that can inform the viewer of the ToJ, Johns parentage storyline. In the book we were made aware of it when Ned was in the black cells, which didnt happen on da television show.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:24 PM   #430
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Jojen Reed is important to Bran's storyline, though I do agree his contribution could be combined into another character's storyline, probably Osha's.

However, Howlen Reed is crucial, though it is not really that big of an issue yet since he hasnt even showed up in the books yet. He is crucial to the Tv show because is the only living character that can inform the viewer of the ToJ, Johns parentage storyline. In the book we were made aware of it when Ned was in the black cells, which didnt happen on da television show.
Jojen Reed is important to some of Bran's development, but FAR from critical or even crucial.

And Howlen has to make an appearance in the books before we start crying foul that he hasn't been cast, don't you think?
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:30 PM   #431
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I wrote a bit about AA and some prophecy stuff, but its so spoilerish I felt it neccesary to hide the text. If you want to read, which I dont advise unless you are current with the books, then highlight the blank area directly below.


****SPOILERS****

This is part of the prophecy of AA.

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone."

***HUGE SPOILERS****

Read the final moments of John's chapter.
The knight killed by the Giant has a star on his surcoat that is covered in blood (bleeding star)
Darkness gathers refers to all the brothers gathering around in there dark clothes.

Amidst smoke and salt: When John is being stabbed his wounds smoke in the night chill, and his attackers are crying hence the salt(in their tears)

Prophecy has an inherently mystical quality to it, which is why I love GrrM so much for making the realization of the prophecy so literal. John Snow is Azor Ahai and the prince who was promised, who I believe are one and the same .

Last edited by myMind; 03-01-2012 at 03:33 PM..
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:32 PM   #432
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Jojen Reed is important to some of Bran's development, but FAR from critical or even crucial.

And Howlen has to make an appearance in the books before we start crying foul that he hasn't been cast, don't you think?
Yes, that is the jist of what I was saying. I dont think that were disagreeing at all. Practically the Reeds arent vital yet, but in my mind as a reader, I cant really imagine the story w/out them. I mean, if they use Osha as the guide, then wtf is gonna happen with Rickon.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:32 PM   #433
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^ well duh.

AA is pretty obvious. Not buying the PwwP though. Not him.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:33 PM   #434
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Yes, that is the jist of what I was saying. I dont think that were disagreeing at all. Practically the Reeds arent vital yet, but in my mind as a reader, I cant really imagine the story w/out them. I mean, if they use Osha as the guide, then wtf is gonna happen with Rickon.
It could just be Bran and Hodir.
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:44 PM   #435
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^ well duh.

AA is pretty obvious. Not buying the PwwP though. Not him.
Highlight below...spoilers ahead

Thats where the R + L = J argument comes into play.
I firmly believe that in dany's vision at the HotU, the child that Rhager was looking at was Lyannas, and that the ToJ scene leads me to believe that Lyanna begged Ned to take the child and not tell anyone who he really is. "Promis me Ned!" Ned agrees with an oath he makes to his dying sister on her death bed and names the boy John and brings him home. Raegar clearly says that the child is the PtwP.
Why do you doubt that PtwP and AA are the same person?

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Old 03-01-2012, 03:50 PM   #436
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Highlight below...spoilers ahead
Check your userCP.

Better spoilers there
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Old 03-01-2012, 03:58 PM   #437
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Check your userCP.

Better spoilers there
back at ya
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:02 PM   #438
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back at ya
Certainly disagree that he'd so overload one character while neglecting another almost completely. I do think my "scenario" is more plausible.

That being said, he's probably the least predictable author ever, so we'll see how this unfolds lol
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:08 PM   #439
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Certainly disagree that he'd so overload one character while neglecting another almost completely. I do think my "scenario" is more plausible.

That being said, he's probably the least predictable author ever, so we'll see how this unfolds lol
Remember though that AA is a propehcy of the red priests. The PtwP could just as likely be referring to the same person, but from a different religion or ideal's viewpoint.

Think of WoT.
The karaethon cycle and the Dark One's prophecy are both referring to Rand, but they are worded differently and come from two different perspectives. Add in the seafolk's prophecy of the coramoor(sp?), that also refers to Rand and you'll see my point hopefully.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:11 PM   #440
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Remember though that AA is a propehcy of the red priests. The PtwP could just as likely be referring to the same person, but from a different religion or ideal's viewpoint.

Think of WoT.
The karaethon cycle and the Dark One's prophecy are both referring to Rand, but they are worded differently and come from two different perspectives. Add in the seafolk's prophecy of the coramoor(sp?), that also refers to Rand and you'll see my point hopefully.
I know what you mean (didn't mention Car'a'carn though ), but Martin has completely avoided the one invincible superman role that Jordan was eager to create with Rand al'Thor.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:16 PM   #441
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I know what you mean (didn't mention Car'a'carn though ), but Martin has completely avoided the one invincible superman role that Jordan was eager to create with Rand al'Thor.
Lol, I knew I was forgetting one. I havent reread that series in a couple years.
It is true that GrrM has avoided the superman character to his own benefit. Perhaps he is building up to one, or perhaps he will try to show that a prophecized being is still only human and has to work into the lives of his fellow humans. I.E. being only one head of the dragon. Who knows, its fun to speculate, but ulitimately the truth only exist in one mans head. As Jordan was fond of saying, I guess we'll have to read and find out.
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Old 03-01-2012, 04:17 PM   #442
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Lol, I knew I was forgetting one. I havent reread that series in a couple years.
It is true that GrrM has avoided the superman character to his own benefit. Perhaps he is building up to one, or perhaps he will try to show that a prophecized being is still only human and has to work into the lives of his fellow humans. I.E. being only one head of the dragon. Who knows, its fun to speculate, but ulitimately the truth only exist in one mans head. As Jordan was fond of saying, I guess we'll have to read and find out.
Yup, if anything he's avoided superhuman characters and over-emphasized human frailty and weakness.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:16 AM   #443
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Less than 4 weeks to go, and it is looking great:

http://www.hbo.com/#/game-of-thrones...ayMQIAUmYXOA==
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:03 AM   #444
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Fixed and OD, I'm having a discussion where I say massive parts of Bran and Dany's stories have been pointless and shouldve ended up on the editing floor.

What are your thoughts?

To me its reminiscent of WoT getting needlessly dragged on for several extra books. Feast and aDwD were supposed to be one book originally because it wouldve fit just fine. For them to be split and tediously drag on at parts oddly at a timing where we can safely assume HBO bought the dramatic rights, wellllllllllllll
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:58 AM   #445
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Fixed and OD, I'm having a discussion where I say massive parts of Bran and Dany's stories have been pointless and shouldve ended up on the editing floor.

What are your thoughts?

To me its reminiscent of WoT getting needlessly dragged on for several extra books. Feast and aDwD were supposed to be one book originally because it wouldve fit just fine. For them to be split and tediously drag on at parts oddly at a timing where we can safely assume HBO bought the dramatic rights, wellllllllllllll
I agree more about Dany than Bran. I thought Bran's story was finally starting to get somewhere interesting and I think it's going to answer a lot of outstanding questions and play a huge role in the final outcome.

With Dany ... I agree that things have dragged more than necessary. I'm having a hard time staying quite as invested in all the pseudo middle-eastern euro-trash on the continent.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:06 AM   #446
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I agree more about Dany than Bran. I thought Bran's story was finally starting to get somewhere interesting and I think it's going to answer a lot of outstanding questions and play a huge role in the final outcome.

With Dany ... I agree that things have dragged more than necessary. I'm having a hard time staying quite as invested in all the pseudo middle-eastern euro-trash on the continent.
Several hundred pages have been dedicated to Jojen being bossy and the revelation that its cold near the wall and that Dany wants Daario but it can never be.

Pointless. Reminds me of braid tugging.
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:04 PM   #447
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i've read the first three books, but this thread is full of potential spoil. I found about a bunch of stuff prematurely. As curious as I am, I would like a spoiler smiley or something.
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Old 03-08-2012, 07:11 AM   #448
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It's a simple line of code, right? Sending a PM to Taco right now.

http://www.vbulletin-faq.com/forum/s...de-Spoiler-Tag
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Old 03-10-2012, 06:41 PM   #449
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Fixed and OD, I'm having a discussion where I say massive parts of Bran and Dany's stories have been pointless and shouldve ended up on the editing floor.

What are your thoughts?
Sure, different characters storylines seem to drag at times, but when I do a reread I generally appreciate them more. Id say its mainly Dany mooning over drogo or her forked bearded tyroshi, and Cersei being a manipulative **** (which can be entertaining at times). The big offender Id say is Sansa, everything before (highlight) *spolier*her escape from kings landing is alright, but when she gets to the vale the ONLY neccesary chapters were Lisas death and Littlefingers summit with the lords of the vale. She has way too many pointless chapters.
I love Bran and every single page of every single chapter.

Oh, and

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Old 03-10-2012, 08:49 PM   #450
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HBO is showing all the episodes tonight, pretty sweet even though I've already seen them. April 1st can't come quick enough.
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