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Old 06-02-2014, 12:46 AM   #2526
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Of all the deaths I have seen in movies or on tv, Oberyn's may be the most brutal. Pissed me off when I read the books and it still pisses me off watching it that that is how one of if not the best character in the entire series meets his end.


With the rest of the episode. Are we being led to believe that Baelish tapped that ass? And with that thought, was it just me or did it look like Sansa was looking like she enjoyed it.

Speaking of Sansa, I know she is the character that most gets hate for being naive and simple minded. But watching her character evolve, it almost seems as if she is learning to play the dangerous game. I truly think we are witnessing the growth of a new Cersei in Sansa.


Arya laughing at the Hound's plan blowing up in his face did make me laugh in an otherwise downer episode that still has me feeling disturbed hours later.


And I don't know why this season but I have just had no interest at all in anything to do with Dany or Jon or anything to do with the Wall really. Kind of wishing the Wildlings would destroy it so the show can spend more time with interesting story lines in King's Landing.
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:53 AM   #2527
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Yeah, my beef with Martin is he talks about letting the organic process of writing take it's course, but then he kills characters when he's done with them even if they're awesome. Oberyn was a plot device he needed that he constructed to move events along a certain way. But in building the Red Viper he kind of fell into one of the most interesting and beloved characters if not in the whole series, at least in SoS. He could have kept him going once he discovered what an amazing character he was.
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:56 AM   #2528
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man that was a brutal ending to a very good character. Wow, when they panned out all you saw a splattered remains of what was a head.

tyrion expression was "what the f just happened"?
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Old 06-02-2014, 08:16 AM   #2529
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Yeah, my beef with Martin is he talks about letting the organic process of writing take it's course, but then he kills characters when he's done with them even if they're awesome. Oberyn was a plot device he needed that he constructed to move events along a certain way. But in building the Red Viper he kind of fell into one of the most interesting and beloved characters if not in the whole series, at least in SoS. He could have kept him going once he discovered what an amazing character he was.
I was ok with the brevity of the character in the books. Considering he was so well written it was worth it just to have him for a bit. However, I'm pretty sure the popularity of his character was responsible for driving the creation of the horrible Quentyn Martell storyline in an attempt to duplicate some of the success of Oberyn.
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Old 06-02-2014, 10:44 AM   #2530
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... However, I'm pretty sure the popularity of his character was responsible for driving the creation of the horrible Quentyn Martell storyline in an attempt to duplicate some of the success of Oberyn.
99 times out a hundred in fantasy literature, when a young princeling disregards the advice of his handlers and takes an impulsive, heroic gamble, it works out for the best - at least in the long run.



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Old 06-02-2014, 12:26 PM   #2531
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The Viper was awesome, best character of this season besides Tyrion. Of course he goes out in one of the most gruesome ways possible, no justice served for his sister. Unless the mountain ends up dying, which I suspect he might.
SPOILER: (
Take note of his name. The Red Viper. He gets his revenge, and maybe even then some. There's also some dialog in this epi that is more or less an 'inside joke' book readers that know what happens.
)
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:42 PM   #2532
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SPOILER: (
Take note of his name. The Red Viper. He gets his revenge, and maybe even then some. There's also some dialog in this epi that is more or less an 'inside joke' book readers that know what happens.
)
Like "Some people die squatting over their chamber pots"? Thread title says "major spoilers"...
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:57 PM   #2533
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Yeah, my beef with Martin is he talks about letting the organic process of writing take it's course, but then he kills characters when he's done with them even if they're awesome. Oberyn was a plot device he needed that he constructed to move events along a certain way. But in building the Red Viper he kind of fell into one of the most interesting and beloved characters if not in the whole series, at least in SoS. He could have kept him going once he discovered what an amazing character he was.
I thought Tyrion and Jamie's discussion of their beetle-busting cousin was some of the funniest stuff I have seen. I am sure that Peter and Niklaus were laughing their a$$es off when they were running their lines... Dur Dur Dur.. I had to replay it a half dozen times.. IMO the best show of the series. I didn't think the purple wedding scene could be beat especially since everyone hated Joffrey. The entire fight scene was choreographed perfectly, ending with Oberyn's shocking manner of death. The entire time Oberyn taunted Clegane (and Tywin) was priceless even if you knew what was coming.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:21 PM   #2534
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Yeah, my beef with Martin is he talks about letting the organic process of writing take it's course, but then he kills characters when he's done with them even if they're awesome. Oberyn was a plot device he needed that he constructed to move events along a certain way. But in building the Red Viper he kind of fell into one of the most interesting and beloved characters if not in the whole series, at least in SoS. He could have kept him going once he discovered what an amazing character he was.
I don't know. Martin seems pretty done with Bronn, and the sell sword is still alive and kicking and doing better than ever.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:31 PM   #2535
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I don't know. Martin seems pretty done with Bronn, and the sell sword is still alive and kicking and doing better than ever.
Always loved Bronn. Especially after he named his kid after Tyrion.
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Old 06-02-2014, 03:38 PM   #2536
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I'm beginning to question the show and the books. It's one thing to have an unhappy/realistic ending, but there are literally zero moments of triumph. You get the feeling there may be a moment, but it's immediately squashed a few episodes/chapters later. Haha
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:17 PM   #2537
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I'm beginning to question the show and the books. It's one thing to have an unhappy/realistic ending, but there are literally zero moments of triumph. You get the feeling there may be a moment, but it's immediately squashed a few episodes/chapters later. Haha
I'm reading the Accursed Kings series which details early 14th century France and England. Anyway, at the end of book 5, King Edward II is murdered, but to ensure that his body doesn't show any marks to indicate it was murder, they killed him by shoving a hot poker up his ass.

I repeat: A hot poker. Up. His Ass.

So I started to think back to the first book and how many characters had been killed, murdered, overthrown, politically circumvented, etc., and I came to one starkly clear conclusion:

History is far crueler than anything Martin put to pen.
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:24 PM   #2538
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Here are the events that inspired the Red Wedding, the Massacre of Glencoe and the Black Dinner:

http://iainthepict.blogspot.com/2011...ck-dinner.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe

The Scots were ****ing cold blooded.
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:24 PM   #2539
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I'm reading the Accursed Kings series which details early 14th century France and England. Anyway, at the end of book 5, King Edward II is murdered, but to ensure that his body doesn't show any marks to indicate it was murder, they killed him by shoving a hot poker up his ass.

I repeat: A hot poker. Up. His Ass.

So I started to think back to the first book and how many characters had been killed, murdered, overthrown, politically circumvented, etc., and I came to one starkly clear conclusion:

History is far crueler than anything Martin put to pen.
Well said.
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:36 PM   #2540
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Any significance to the story about Orson and the beetles or just brilliant foreshadowing?
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Old 06-02-2014, 04:47 PM   #2541
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I'm reading the Accursed Kings series which details early 14th century France and England. Anyway, at the end of book 5, King Edward II is murdered, but to ensure that his body doesn't show any marks to indicate it was murder, they killed him by shoving a hot poker up his ass.

I repeat: A hot poker. Up. His Ass.

So I started to think back to the first book and how many characters had been killed, murdered, overthrown, politically circumvented, etc., and I came to one starkly clear conclusion:

History is far crueler than anything Martin put to pen.
That is true. History is always much worse than fiction. While fiction can amp up the drama and gore factor history simply details how despicable man can actually be. The cruelty humankind has perpetrated is far worse than any fiction.
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Old 06-02-2014, 07:38 PM   #2542
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an otherwise downer episode that still has me feeling disturbed hours later.


.
Ditto. I was working this morning, and it kept popping up in my head. Rarely do I see something on movies or TV that genuinely disturbs me and lingers in my head for hours later, but Oberyn's death sure did it. The manner in which it happened was just unsettling. Every a-hole character on the show sitting there beyond pleased after it happens, Tyrion (one of the few good guys on the show) shocked and beaten, not to mention the Mountain confessing to killing and raping Oberyn's sister, and her children, as he's pushing Oberyn's eyeballs through his skull and then breaking his whole head to bits. It was just a very disturbing, sad, and graphic scene. Never have I watched a show that makes me HATE certain characters so much. The scene where Tyrion and Jamie are talking about the beetle squashing cousin might have been the most I've ever laughed when watching this show, but the following sequence was easily the most unsettling.
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Old 06-02-2014, 08:30 PM   #2543
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I thought Tyrion and Jamie's discussion of their beetle-busting cousin was some of the funniest stuff I have seen. I am sure that Peter and Niklaus were laughing their a$$es off when they were running their lines... Dur Dur Dur.. I had to replay it a half dozen times.. IMO the best show of the series.
Absolutely. I love those two together. They have great chemistry.
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:10 PM   #2544
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What does everyone think will happen with Bran? I've read the books but I'm still not sure what his end game is. Does he even know?
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:34 PM   #2545
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What does everyone think will happen with Bran? I've read the books but I'm still not sure what his end game is. Does he even know?
Bran to me comes across as a character GRRM himself doesn't know what to do with. The quest just keeps going with new things brought up but nothing really happening.

It is such an unappealing storyline that it hasn't even been shown in like the last 4 episodes.
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:37 PM   #2546
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Ditto. I was working this morning, and it kept popping up in my head. Rarely do I see something on movies or TV that genuinely disturbs me and lingers in my head for hours later, but Oberyn's death sure did it. The manner in which it happened was just unsettling. Every a-hole character on the show sitting there beyond pleased after it happens, Tyrion (one of the few good guys on the show) shocked and beaten, not to mention the Mountain confessing to killing and raping Oberyn's sister, and her children, as he's pushing Oberyn's eyeballs through his skull and then breaking his whole head to bits. It was just a very disturbing, sad, and graphic scene. Never have I watched a show that makes me HATE certain characters so much. The scene where Tyrion and Jamie are talking about the beetle squashing cousin might have been the most I've ever laughed when watching this show, but the following sequence was easily the most unsettling.
I agree on every villain watching with glee as Oberyn died was horrible. I have never wanted to hit a woman or see a woman hit, but I would have loved to see someone knock that smug look off Cersei's face.
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:51 PM   #2547
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I'm going to work hard at replacing all memory of Oberyn's head getting crushed with images of Missandei bathing. Nathalie Emmanuel is the show's most beautiful actress.
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Old 06-02-2014, 09:56 PM   #2548
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I agree on every villain watching with glee as Oberyn died was horrible. I have never wanted to hit a woman or see a woman hit, but I would have loved to see someone knock that smug look off Cersei's face.
Agreed. Her time will come eventually. Will be looking forward to that. Some other major character will go down this season, I don't know who it will be. I highly doubt it's Tyrion. I've never read the books, but I'm guessing the mountain will die from his wounds and Tyrions life will be spared since neither guy truly won, or maybe he will have another trial by combat? In every season so far, the second to last episode is where **** has really hit the fan, (Ned's beheading, blackwater battle, red wedding) and the season finale usually addresses a couple lingering things and sets the show up for the next season. With that in mind, I expect a lot of blood to be shed at the battle for the wall.
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Old 06-02-2014, 11:05 PM   #2549
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Just about every good fictional villain is steeped in real life figures from history.
If you research land, religion, power, politics or fighting over a woman in history you will find atrocities you would think could only be in a fantasy novel.

With that said, the death of Oberyn is more gruesome and memorable than the red wedding or even Ned being beheaded.

Though I imagine Tyrion's mini revenge tour will be far more epic.
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Old 06-02-2014, 11:37 PM   #2550
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Bran to me comes across as a character GRRM himself doesn't know what to do with. The quest just keeps going with new things brought up but nothing really happening.

It is such an unappealing storyline that it hasn't even been shown in like the last 4 episodes.
I don't believe this for a second. The story of Bran and just as importantly, Bloodraven, is going to be an important part of this story that is going to make all of us question out own thoughts of good and evil and leave a mark in literary history to come. I have great faith in GRRM and the story of little Bran.

I definitely don't agree with the idea that the story-line is unappealing. It's just not that important to this particular inflection point, where there are so many other things happening.
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