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Old 04-12-2011, 01:00 PM   #1
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Default The real history and origin of Christmas: a pagan holiday with pagan rituals. Did you know that?

Origin of Christmas:

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Roman pagans first introduced the holiday of Saturnalia, a week long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the weeklong celebration. The festival began when Roman authorities chose “an enemy of the Roman people” to represent the “Lord of Misrule.” Each Roman community selected a victim whom they forced to indulge in food and other physical pleasures throughout the week. At the festival’s conclusion, December 25th, Roman authorities believed they were destroying the forces of darkness by brutally murdering this innocent man or woman.

B. The ancient Greek writer poet and historian Lucian (in his dialogue entitled Saturnalia) describes the festival’s observance in his time. In addition to human sacrifice, he mentions these customs: widespread intoxication; going from house to house while singing naked; rape and other sexual license; and consuming human-shaped biscuits (still produced in some English and most German bakeries during the Christmas season).

C. In the 4th century CE, Christianity imported the Saturnalia festival hoping to take the pagan masses in with it. Christian leaders succeeded in converting to Christianity large numbers of pagans by promising them that they could continue to celebrate the Saturnalia as Christians.[2]
And some other intersting tidbits:

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The Origins of Christmas Customs

A. The Origin of Christmas Tree
Just as early Christians recruited Roman pagans by associating Christmas with the Saturnalia, so too worshippers of the Asheira cult and its offshoots were recruited by the Church sanctioning “Christmas Trees”.[7] Pagans had long worshipped trees in the forest, or brought them into their homes and decorated them, and this observance was adopted and painted with a Christian veneer by the Church.

B. The Origin of Mistletoe
Norse mythology recounts how the god Balder was killed using a mistletoe arrow by his rival god Hoder while fighting for the female Nanna. Druid rituals use mistletoe to poison their human sacrificial victim.[8] The Christian custom of “kissing under the mistletoe” is a later synthesis of the sexual license of Saturnalia with the Druidic sacrificial cult.[9]

C. The Origin of Christmas Presents
In pre-Christian Rome, the emperors compelled their most despised citizens to bring offerings and gifts during the Saturnalia (in December) and Kalends (in January). Later, this ritual expanded to include gift-giving among the general populace. The Catholic Church gave this custom a Christian flavor by re-rooting it in the supposed gift-giving of Saint Nicholas

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vita...eRealStory.htm
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:10 PM   #2
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definitely interesting stuff. It's too bad the Catholic church at the time tried to use several of the greatest events in history to appease the pagans of the day. Easter is the same way, it originally was a festival about the pagan fertility god. Christ's birth, death and resurrection can stand by themselves on their own dates corresponding to when they actually happened. There was never a need to try and cover over pagan dates.

It's also unfortunate that we've done the same things today associating Christmas more with presents and Easter more with bunnies and candy than with Jesus Christ's birth and resurrection.

Tebow would agree with me, hehe, go Broncos.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:14 PM   #3
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definitely interesting stuff. It's too bad the Catholic church at the time tried to use several of the greatest events in history to appease the pagans of the day. Easter is the same way, it originally was a festival about the pagan fertility god. Christ's birth, death and resurrection can stand by themselves on their own dates corresponding to when they actually happened. There was never a need to try and cover over pagan dates.

It's also unfortunate that we've done the same things today associating Christmas more with presents and Easter more with bunnies and candy than with Jesus Christ's birth and resurrection.

Tebow would agree with me, hehe, go Broncos.
Absolutely. Its funny how a celebration so steeped in depravity is celebrated around the world; yet the people celebrating it have no idea why they are celebrating.

I mean, should I send out Happy Saturnalia cards this December?

The world is ass-backwards.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:15 PM   #4
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I knew most of the myths: Christ was born in April and the Church merged the birthday with the Winter Solstice celebration. However a lot of what is written here isn't true. I'm pretty sure the modern Christmas tree came from one of the Kings of England being a German and bringing that tradition with him. And I am well aware that Germanic tribes were pagan, but they weren't fans of the Roman gods. This article reads like they've always had Christmas trees and they really haven't. In fact Roman culture is a hobby of mine and I can tell you absolutely that gift-giving was a more recent Christmas tradition. The idea that Roman culture has continued un-broken for 2000 years isn't true. There are definitely influences but, this reads like "...and we've been doing it ever since!"
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:16 PM   #5
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just wait until you learn about the yule log!
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:17 PM   #6
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:20 PM   #7
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Our Christian forebears also used to dance around a Maypole, worship of a big huge phallic symbol. We should not have done away with this tradition!
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:22 PM   #8
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I knew most of the myths: Christ was born in April and the Church merged the birthday with the Winter Solstice celebration.
If Christ was born in April, why does the church continue to celebrate his birthday in December? December 25th is just a random date in Christianity, but not so for pagans.

Doesn't make sense, does it?

Last edited by bronco0608; 04-12-2011 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:25 PM   #9
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Because mama church is a power whore.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:56 PM   #10
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Its pretty common for new religions to adapt to existing holidays and rituals and put their own twist on them. It makes it easier to gain trust and convert people. It Doesn't really change the significance behind the holidays for me.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:57 PM   #11
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Lies. This is all a part of the liberal war on Christmas.
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Old 04-12-2011, 01:59 PM   #12
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Its pretty common for new religions to adapt to existing holidays and rituals and put their own twist on them. It makes it easier to gain trust and convert people. It Doesn't really change the significance behind the holidays for me.
the fact that religions feel the need to constantly convert others instead of just following their own beliefs and whoever wants to hop on can changes the significance of a lot of things. so much for just leaving people be, they have to overtake other religions and to make the "transition" easier they will celebrate holidays at the same time. does that sound very "spiritual" to anyone?
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:31 PM   #13
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the fact that religions feel the need to constantly convert others instead of just following their own beliefs and whoever wants to hop on can changes the significance of a lot of things. so much for just leaving people be, they have to overtake other religions and to make the "transition" easier they will celebrate holidays at the same time. does that sound very "spiritual" to anyone?
People want thier beliefs/ideals to be validated, be it religion, politics, favorite sports teams or any other opinion we have. Its human nature.
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:06 PM   #14
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Lies. This is all a part of the liberal war on Christmas.
Really? So Christ was born in December? The Bible doesn't say that.

So how exactly is kissing a random stranger under a misletoe Christian? Where did that come from?
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:18 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bronco0608 View Post
If Christ was born in April, why does the church continue to celebrate his birthday in December? December 25th is just a random date in Christianity, but not so for pagans.

Doesn't make sense, does it?

Only if you are an idiot.

Romans were very religious. In adopting Christianity, roman religious practices merged to attract converts. This would include Roman holy days and celebrations. As Christianity spread beyond Rome the practice of adopting some pagan culture continued. This is not unique to Christianity, either. Islam, Judaism and Hinduism celebrate holy and feast days that predate the practice of that religion. Just how it is.

And the point of Christmas and Easter is not presents in one case or finding ridiculous eggs/oblong spheres on the other. Its about the birth and resurrection of Christ. When it is celebrated doesnt matter. The fact it is does.

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Old 04-12-2011, 04:20 PM   #16
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Really? So Christ was born in December? The Bible doesn't say that.
So how exactly is kissing a random stranger under a misletoe Christian? Where did that come from?

Bible gives clues. But considering the nature of the calendars then (solar/lunar) you could have spring in December or snowfall in June. More than likely Christ was born in spring, but as I said, hard to be completely sure.


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Old 04-12-2011, 04:45 PM   #17
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i ask who DIDNTknow that
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Old 04-12-2011, 04:56 PM   #18
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The examples in the OP were focused on Roman traditions, but Nordic traditions were also incorporated. The festival of Yule was the Germanic holiday tied to the winter solstice.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:00 PM   #19
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This should end well.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:42 PM   #20
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I have the utmost confidence that this is a topic that the Orange Mane is expert in.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:45 PM   #21
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Funny that people say see how christians did this. When in most cases it was not christians but those who tried to use the christian name to rule. Personally the only thing. Christmas has in common with the roman celebration is a date.
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:50 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaylore View Post
I knew most of the myths: Christ was born in April and the Church merged the birthday with the Winter Solstice celebration. However a lot of what is written here isn't true.
I don't know, would shepherds have their sheep out grazing in the Winter?
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Old 04-12-2011, 05:56 PM   #23
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I don't know, would shepherds have their sheep out grazing in the Winter?
Probably. They are in the mediteranean. I think the grazed year round.
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:00 PM   #24
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What's the big deal? The Bible doesn't say anything about having a holiday called "Christmas." Christmas is the most worldly, commercialized export of Christianity ever. It's no surprise that it came from a non-Christian cultural tradition.

And I say that as a Christian. Christmas leaves very little to be be proud of, other than the "real" meaning Christians ascribe to it. The rest of it is kind of overwhelming, commercialized, and self-centered.
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Old 04-12-2011, 06:20 PM   #25
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