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Old 04-09-2011, 12:12 PM   #1
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Default Bored? Check out this Starcraft II tournament

The TSL is on!

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TeamLiquidTV

If you've never seen a Starcraft II tournament, this is one of the best ones you can watch. These are some of the best players in the world. It's a lot of fun!
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Old 04-09-2011, 01:42 PM   #2
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The TSL is on!

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TeamLiquidTV

If you've never seen a Starcraft II tournament, this is one of the best ones you can watch. These are some of the best players in the world. It's a lot of fun!
Its interesting how much more attention TSL is getting than the Gom TV tournaments simply because it forces foreigners into its brackets instead of having them all get eliminated by Koreans in the preliminary trials.

I haven't watched Starcraft in sometime, it is fun if you play it.
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Old 04-09-2011, 02:02 PM   #3
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Think I missed it. Nothing showing.
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Old 04-09-2011, 02:09 PM   #4
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IF you missed it, the VODs are posted here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/view...opic_id=203014
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Old 04-09-2011, 02:13 PM   #5
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If you really want to see something cool, the World Championship finals were last night. They posted them here:

http://www.gomtv.net/2011championship/vod/64516

You might have to forward through some of the hype stuff - this is like the Korean Superbowl - dancing girls and production value galore. But the games are REALLY REALLY good as the series goes on (it's a best of 7 format). And with the live audience and skilled commentators, you really get a feel for the excitement of the game and why people get into it.
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Old 04-09-2011, 02:29 PM   #6
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Never been much of a strategy game kind of person, but thought I look at the videos anyway.

Here is my current (can always change) video game Wish List in no particular order.

Portal 2
Deus EX: Human Revolution
Elder Scrolls V
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Old 04-09-2011, 03:05 PM   #7
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Starcraft II is top notch. Mark my words. Professional gaming is going to be a legitimate professional career within 20 years. Game music is now getting some categorization in the Grammy awards. Games are also overtaking movies in overall profits. It's the future.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:04 PM   #8
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Starcraft II is top notch. Mark my words. Professional gaming is going to be a legitimate professional career within 20 years. Game music is now getting some categorization in the Grammy awards. Games are also overtaking movies in overall profits. It's the future.
Within 1 year. The NASL has something like a $400,000 prize pot with something like $85,000 going to the champion. The winner of the IGN league, wins $50k, and I think that's the same amount for winning the MLG tournament at the end of the season. There's a lot of money moving into the space right now.
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Old 04-09-2011, 04:56 PM   #9
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I've been getting huge into Starcraft 2 lately. Check day[9] if you really want to get better. His videos are excellent.
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Old 04-09-2011, 05:48 PM   #10
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I've been getting huge into Starcraft 2 lately. Check day[9] if you really want to get better. His videos are excellent.
Believe me, I know allllll about Day[9]. I've found myself way more into Starcraft 2 than I ever imagined I'd ever be into a video game since graduating college. I can't get enough of it. I'm not great at it, but I have fun in bronze league.
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:36 PM   #11
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Believe me, I know allllll about Day[9]. I've found myself way more into Starcraft 2 than I ever imagined I'd ever be into a video game since graduating college. I can't get enough of it. I'm not great at it, but I have fun in bronze league.
I'm in Silver(So worth getting out of Bronze just to get away from the Cannon rushing a-holes). Lemme know if you wanna play some time.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:02 PM   #12
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Within 1 year. The NASL has something like a $400,000 prize pot with something like $85,000 going to the champion. The winner of the IGN league, wins $50k, and I think that's the same amount for winning the MLG tournament at the end of the season. There's a lot of money moving into the space right now.
Yeah but that's still tournament money, and its really not big enough. First place alone in Counter Strike made hundreds of thousands over a decade ago.

Real professional gaming is the system they have in Korea for Starcraft, which resembles a sports league's model here in the US. There are dozens of teams, where the members of each get paid a set salary, and they share profits made from televising the games that get distributed to the teams.

Then you're talking about paying 50k to every employee in your organization, not just 50K to a hobbiest winner who happens to win that year.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:09 PM   #13
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Believe me, I know allllll about Day[9]. I've found myself way more into Starcraft 2 than I ever imagined I'd ever be into a video game since graduating college. I can't get enough of it. I'm not great at it, but I have fun in bronze league.
if you want to get real good real fast, just pick a very basic build order and get really good doing it. Watching Day-9, unfortunately, i don't think is a great way to improve for bronze league players. Thats simply because, Day 9 talks about starcraft in a way that makes you think a about some of the different strategies, and at the early levels, thinking is kind of counter productive. What you really want to do is get the bread and butter build (4 gate, 3 rax, 1 base roach, watever) for your race, and just get really fast at that build - to the second.

With just that, I think you can get to gold league in a day, maybe 2.
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Old 04-09-2011, 09:36 PM   #14
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Within 1 year. The NASL has something like a $400,000 prize pot with something like $85,000 going to the champion. The winner of the IGN league, wins $50k, and I think that's the same amount for winning the MLG tournament at the end of the season. There's a lot of money moving into the space right now.
Definitely a lot of money, however it's only a enough for a very, very, small select few individuals. Not enough money is in there yet for it to be a viable career that you can tell your family, "this is what I'm doing with my life," without being laughed at.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:41 PM   #15
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Definitely a lot of money, however it's only a enough for a very, very, small select few individuals. Not enough money is in there yet for it to be a viable career that you can tell your family, "this is what I'm doing with my life," without being laughed at.
There's professional gamers all over Europe and Asia, it's a viable living if you happen to be one of the best in the world at the game.

There's even companies that will sponsor and play their players a ton of money for playing for them. fnatic comes to mind.
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Old 04-09-2011, 10:46 PM   #16
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Definitely a lot of money, however it's only a enough for a very, very, small select few individuals. Not enough money is in there yet for it to be a viable career that you can tell your family, "this is what I'm doing with my life," without being laughed at.
Korea is the exception, there a starcraft player is treated and compensated relative to the rest of the country the way a pro-sports player is here.
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Old 04-09-2011, 11:46 PM   #17
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if you want to get real good real fast, just pick a very basic build order and get really good doing it. Watching Day-9, unfortunately, i don't think is a great way to improve for bronze league players. Thats simply because, Day 9 talks about starcraft in a way that makes you think a about some of the different strategies, and at the early levels, thinking is kind of counter productive. What you really want to do is get the bread and butter build (4 gate, 3 rax, 1 base roach, watever) for your race, and just get really fast at that build - to the second.

With just that, I think you can get to gold league in a day, maybe 2.
But that's a really boring way to play. I'm happy playing in Silver if it means that I go into a game without a set build order. I know how to open, and what my build order options are, but I have more fun just winging it.
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Old 04-10-2011, 06:15 AM   #18
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But that's a really boring way to play. I'm happy playing in Silver if it means that I go into a game without a set build order. I know how to open, and what my build order options are, but I have more fun just winging it.
I guess, but doing 1 build order doesn't mean you're stuck doing the same thing.

For instance, 3 Rax, 4gate, 1 base roach are all sort of "stuck" compared to other build orders for each race. 2gate/3gate Robo, 1-1-1, and anything thats not a 1 base roach or early pool for zerg is very flexible.

look at all the options in this flow chart:

http://www.sc2-strategy.com/wp-conte...-flowchart.jpg

I don't think thats boring, I think there's a lot of variety in what you are doing. However, I can agree that it limits your decision making to before the game starts, and maybe you want to feel like you're constantly innovating.

The idea is once you get real good at a standard build, as long as you don't use it as a crutch and are willing to try new things from there, you can win a lot but also innovate your own builds.

Last edited by willyallthewei; 04-10-2011 at 06:18 AM..
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Old 04-10-2011, 11:02 AM   #19
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The TSL is starting at 11am PST today for anyone interested:
http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TeamLiquidTV

Some good matches scheduled.
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Old 04-11-2011, 06:18 AM   #20
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Believe me, I know allllll about Day[9]. I've found myself way more into Starcraft 2 than I ever imagined I'd ever be into a video game since graduating college. I can't get enough of it. I'm not great at it, but I have fun in bronze league.
Me too. I bought it on July 27th....the day it came out.....and it's the only game I've played since. I even bought Fallout Vegas....and haven't touched it yet. Like you, I just can't get enough of SC 2.

I'm in the Platinum League for 2v2....and in Gold for 4v4. I just can't seem to crack diamond.
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Old 04-17-2011, 08:31 AM   #21
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My 2 favorite matches so far:

TLO (Most exciting player in SC2 hands down) v. Nada (a Legend from SC1)


Jinro (probably top 5 player in the world right now) v. Morrow (used to be top ladder guy in EU server i think)
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Old 04-17-2011, 10:27 AM   #22
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This **** is crazy!!! Not knowing what the hell is going on, it's still really fun to watch!
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:02 PM   #23
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The problem with Starcraft is it's not an RTS game -- it's a real time tactics game. It's sometimes fun, but not particularly interesting as a genre game.

It's terrain and resource model is built specifically to enforce a particular game style (that style being the only effective strategy "choice" is to be offensive and expand aggressively). This restrictions is really boring but a necessity since there is no effective defensive strategy that a player can employ with the units and terrain and resource model. Sure, you can build a cute little wall of cannons in your main base, but you are dooming yourself if you do (and those cannons are going to lose badly to anything more potent than a few zerglings).

The rock, paper scissors aspect is also annoying. It's ok (but really damn boring) when you have one opponent if you scout properly to make sure you're building rocks if they are building scissors. But if you have one opponent building rocks and the other building scissors -- you have no effective unit mix to combat either threat. This system takes most of the thought out of the mix and replaces it with luck and who can click faster.

The posters here talking about becoming a better player by "choosing and practicing a particular build order" (which is correct) speaks volumes about how boxed in you are as a player. When your best hope for success is a static, single set of actions, well...

*snooze*
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:19 PM   #24
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The problem with Starcraft is it's not an RTS game -- it's a real time tactics game. It's sometimes fun, but not particularly interesting as a genre game.

It's terrain and resource model is built specifically to enforce a particular game style (that style being the only effective strategy "choice" is to be offensive and expand aggressively). This restrictions is really boring but a necessity since there is no effective defensive strategy that a player can employ with the units and terrain and resource model. Sure, you can build a cute little wall of cannons in your main base, but you are dooming yourself if you do (and those cannons are going to lose badly to anything more potent than a few zerglings).

The rock, paper scissors aspect is also annoying. It's ok (but really damn boring) when you have one opponent if you scout properly to make sure you're building rocks if they are building scissors. But if you have one opponent building rocks and the other building scissors -- you have no effective unit mix to combat either threat. This system takes most of the thought out of the mix and replaces it with luck and who can click faster.

The posters here talking about becoming a better player by "choosing and practicing a particular build order" (which is correct) speaks volumes about how boxed in you are as a player. When your best hope for success is a static, single set of actions, well...

*snooze*
I disagree with almost everything in your post.

1.) Yes, perfecting a single build order will get you up to the top 5% or so of players. After that, when players can actually handle the basics of macro, knowing a single build order will not be enough.

There is a ton of scouting and mind games in those two games I posted, can you name atleast 2? No, because you don't play or understand SC at that level, in fact SC: BW and SC2 are totally different games so the fact that you bunched the two together shows your lack of understanding of both games and the entire genre.

2.) You say that the fast pace of SC is boring, the fact that both SC games are far more popular worldwide than the defensive, macro oriented Supreme Commander and its root game - Total Annihilation is clear evidence to the contrary. When was the last time a tournament of TA or SC was popular? Never, for good reason - Massive hour long endurance battles are not as fun to watch or play as the back and forth in the SC games.

3.) SC2 units are not rock paper Scissor, except at low levels where players are garbage at micro. SC:BW had almost no hard counters, and great players could get out of the worst situations. You are not boxed in to a specific set of actions, especially not in BW and definitely not in SC2 at its current, early stage of evolution. The BW community produced unorthodox strategies in its later years after hundreds of pro players practiced the game 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for many years. There is no specific set of ways to win, but the top pro players that create tight build orders get emulated by lower players. Thats the most efficient way for a poor player to improve, doesn't mean that it forces you to play in a boxed manner, its just that the community produces "optimum" builds as pro players experiment.

4.) I also want to add that if you think the model of SC2 is no good because it encourages expansion and aggression, then I wonder what on earth you think is a good model.

All RTS games, every last one focuses on a general rock paper scissors concept. Aggressive play > Expansionist play > Defensive play > Aggressive Play.

There are some RTS games where you can "crawl" your defense into the range of opposing player's base, but you can do that in SC2 if you use Terran, and that is really just a variation of the expansionist playstyle.

Your example of photon cannons blocking your base is just terribly executed defensive play. Proper Protoss defensive play does not involve any photon cannons in 1 base play, 2 bass Forge FE with a photon cannon in the back is actually extremely effective against zerg, and will more often than not force a Baneling bust.

Last edited by Willynowei; 04-17-2011 at 01:08 PM..
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:55 PM   #25
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The problem with Starcraft is it's not an RTS game -- it's a real time tactics game. It's sometimes fun, but not particularly interesting as a genre game.

It's terrain and resource model is built specifically to enforce a particular game style (that style being the only effective strategy "choice" is to be offensive and expand aggressively). This restrictions is really boring but a necessity since there is no effective defensive strategy that a player can employ with the units and terrain and resource model. Sure, you can build a cute little wall of cannons in your main base, but you are dooming yourself if you do (and those cannons are going to lose badly to anything more potent than a few zerglings).

The rock, paper scissors aspect is also annoying. It's ok (but really damn boring) when you have one opponent if you scout properly to make sure you're building rocks if they are building scissors. But if you have one opponent building rocks and the other building scissors -- you have no effective unit mix to combat either threat. This system takes most of the thought out of the mix and replaces it with luck and who can click faster.

The posters here talking about becoming a better player by "choosing and practicing a particular build order" (which is correct) speaks volumes about how boxed in you are as a player. When your best hope for success is a static, single set of actions, well...

*snooze*

I couldn't disagree with this more. There are a million possible build orders int his game - the thought that there is only one viable way to play this game doesn't even register with me. There's an endless number of opportunities for diverse game play. Everything you've said is totally foriegn to my experience playing and observing the game.
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