The Orange Mane -  a Denver Broncos Fan Community  

Go Back   The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community > Orange Mane Discussion > Orange Mane Central Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Chat Room Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-27-2011, 10:31 PM   #1
tsiguy96
Ring of Famer
 
tsiguy96's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default MMQB notes

very good article, but some things to note:
Quote:
8. The fear around Nick Fairley is real. More and more I hear the "one-year wonder'' stuff. Mayock on Fairley: "Two years junior college, one year OK at Auburn, one great year. So what should you think?'' That plus Dareus has passed Fairley on most draftboards.


3. There's a chill around Marcell Dareus. I've been operating under the impression that the best defensive tackle in the draft would go one, two or three, and he probably still will. When scouts and GMs begin to go over players for the fourth and fifth time, and when they parse the words in their individual interviews, they're going to get nervous. Maybe that's what this is with Dareus. I can't put my finger on why, but he's cooling off in the eyes of several people I trust at the top of the draft. I still think he'd be the best pick for defensive-front-needy Denver or No. 3 Buffalo.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1Hri2Lb8g
almost makes me buy into peterson a bit more. if these guys are not going to be elite DTs, or the potential for it (i think fairley has more potential for greatness, dareus more potential to be a solid starter/rotational guy based on a lot of what ive read). might just be worth taking peterson and having new starting CB and taking DL. at this point, ill no longer be disappointed if they take peterson over a DL.
tsiguy96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-27-2011, 11:33 PM   #2
Broncobiv
Tee many martoonis
 
Broncobiv's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,709
Default

Like several other Mane posters, I am sick of having elite talent at the CB position and watching it get wasted because we have no DL. We need to pressure the QB and stop the run. Dominant DL's make average secondaries look great. It is far tougher to do the opposite.
Broncobiv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 11:40 PM   #3
schaaf
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broncobiv View Post
Like several other Mane posters, I am sick of having elite talent at the CB position and watching it get wasted because we have no DL. We need to pressure the QB and stop the run. Dominant DL's make average secondaries look great. It is far tougher to do the opposite.
there is seriously nobody on this site that argues this with you.. The thing that people are arguing is that you cant just take a D-Lineman with the number 2 overall pick if he is not going to be a complete stud. Most scouts feel that Peterson is going to be a beast in the NFL and most aren't sold on either Dareus or Fairley. Just because thats what you need most doesn't mean we should take him there.

And once again there is more than one move to be made in the offseason.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2011, 11:51 PM   #4
HAT
I think, therefore I ham.
 
HAT's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,867

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Adam Weber
Default

Liuget will be the best 3DT from this draft when it's all said and done.
HAT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 01:00 AM   #5
cutthemdown
A verbis ad verbera
 
cutthemdown's Avatar
 
Zimm to HOF

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Beach
Posts: 37,088
Default

They don't know how good they will be. These guys all drooled over Jamarcus Russell and praised Oakland for drafting him.

I will be happy with whoever we draft until they don't play well. Even a QB would make me shut up if he was really good. Sure I want dominant defensive players also. We will draft what 5 people? unless we add some picks with a trade? I'm hoping that whoever they pick are the good ones. We all know what these drafts look like after a few yrs. Bunch of busts on every team.
cutthemdown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 01:58 AM   #6
schaaf
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by d:-| View Post
Liuget will be the best 3DT from this draft when it's all said and done.
I think you're right... If he is there in the mid twenties I think we need to move up and get him
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 06:29 AM   #7
Kaylore
I am secretly Chrissy
 
Kaylore's Avatar
 
AND Bob

Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Ceti Alpha V
Posts: 47,061

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Pat Bowlen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cutthemdown View Post
They don't know how good they will be. These guys all drooled over Jamarcus Russell and praised Oakland for drafting him.
Who? Peter King? I don't remember King doing this. I remember Mayock saying he wouldn't have gone first if the QB class wasn't so crappy that year. I also remember Greasy Al getting a lot of flack for his pick, but then again, he always does.
Kaylore is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:27 AM   #8
That One Guy
Producer of Nonsense
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sun and Beachville
Posts: 14,066

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by schaaf View Post
there is seriously nobody on this site that argues this with you.. The thing that people are arguing is that you cant just take a D-Lineman with the number 2 overall pick if he is not going to be a complete stud. Most scouts feel that Peterson is going to be a beast in the NFL and most aren't sold on either Dareus or Fairley. Just because thats what you need most doesn't mean we should take him there.

And once again there is more than one move to be made in the offseason.
I absolutely agree with him. Everybody wants to recall Dwill being better than he was, in my opinion, but he got hung out to dry by Peyton when Champ was on the other side. That should've been a competent CB group but because there was nobody coming off the line to worry Peyton, they got lit up.

A DL can take over a game by himself. A CB can have a good game but wont win you anything single handedly. They just go elsewhere with the ball.

And quit being a prick to the guy for just expressing his opinion.
That One Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:29 AM   #9
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,509

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
A DL can take over a game by himself. A CB can have a good game but wont win you anything single handedly. They just go elsewhere with the ball.
I'm sure Tom Brady was thinking just that after the 2005 AFC playoff game against us. Even when he tried to go elsewhere with the ball, Champ made him pay.
Beantown Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:33 AM   #10
teknic
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco View Post
I'm sure Tom Brady was thinking just that after the 2005 AFC playoff game against us. Even when he tried to go elsewhere with the ball, Champ made him pay.
In all fairness, a pass rush from the dline was also what stopped Tom Brady from going undefeated in 2007.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:38 AM   #11
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,509

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknic View Post
In all fairness, a pass rush from the dline was also what stopped Tom Brady from going undefeated in 2007.
That was not one guy on the DLine (which is the specific argument I'm responding to above). That was an entire rotation of 5-6 studs hammering him all game long. One great guy on the DLine can be negated at least as easily, if not easier, than one great CB.
Beantown Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:40 AM   #12
tsiguy96
Ring of Famer
 
tsiguy96's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

no one is denying what a DL can do and i agree 1000%. but at end of the day, as more information comes out, do we want to potentially draft a tyson jackson? a guy who got hyped up pre draft then does nothing for the team? that is a realistic, scary thought for this team to use a high pick on.
tsiguy96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:48 AM   #13
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 37,672

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsiguy96 View Post
no one is denying what a DL can do and i agree 1000%. but at end of the day, as more information comes out, do we want to potentially draft a tyson jackson? a guy who got hyped up pre draft then does nothing for the team? that is a realistic, scary thought for this team to use a high pick on.
What a great DL can do is WAY less than people on this site have been giving them credit for.

Also, I think people have really been turning a blind eye to the horrid shelf life of DTs in the current NFL era.

...and that's not even mentioning the ridiculous bust rate.
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 07:55 AM   #14
teknic
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

I hope the Broncos trade back and pick up Von Miller. I think he could be a stud at SLB, and he will also add to the pass rush. I would even consider him at #2 if Fox believes he could be a MLB in his defense.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 08:14 AM   #15
srphoenix
77 rushing touchdowns
 
srphoenix's Avatar
 
The next TD

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Green Bay, WI
Posts: 1,009

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Montee Ball
Default

honestly, this is what we should take most from this article:

Elway's been a pleasant surprise to John Fox.
I noticed this at the Scouting Combine. John Elway, the new vice president of football operations for the Broncos, was everywhere. In the interview rooms talking to players, out in the stadium watching the workouts. Same thing at the league meetings. Chatting with other GMs and coaches. When I sidled up to new Denver coach John Fox to ask him about it, he went on like he'd discovered gold.
It was an off-the-record conversation, but it surprised me how much Fox seemed to legitimately like and admire Elway as a club executive, so I reached out to the coach Sunday to ask if I could write about it. He called back and told me, "It's not BS, what I told you. It's real. This guy works. I have fallen in love with him. A lot of people probably thought it was going to be [just a job with a title] and he wouldn't be all in. But he is.
"We went to a speaking engagement recently in Denver and one of the things John said is, 'I've discovered there's more than one 6 o'clock.' He's in at 7 most days, out at 7. When we met with players, his perspective was valuable; he understands what makes a player better than 90 percent of the people in the league. The bottom line is, he did it right. He played, he was a success in business, he raised his kids and now he's doing something he loves. I think he's going to be good at this.''
Let me make this point about what Fox just said: I've known Fox for a long time. Plenty of times -- and I mean plenty -- I'd ask him a question and he'd say we have to talk off the record for a minute, because he didn't want to lie, nor did he want to mislead me. So I do not take his words as him trying to butter up the boss, or paint a fake picture of the boss for public consumption. We'll see how it works out, but so far, so good.
srphoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 08:24 AM   #16
tsiguy96
Ring of Famer
 
tsiguy96's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
What a great DL can do is WAY less than people on this site have been giving them credit for.

Also, I think people have really been turning a blind eye to the horrid shelf life of DTs in the current NFL era.

...and that's not even mentioning the ridiculous bust rate.
DL, or more specifically ability to generate pressure without sacrificing too much in the back end, is more important than cover corners. but like i said, theres no point in drafting a DL just to draft a DL, unless they feel dareus or fairley can be potential top DL, then maybe it is worth taking peterson. bust rate is high for sure, thats my bigger thing is avoiding picking that bust aka jarvis moss just to fill the position. but if they feel dareus/fairley are guys that are worthy of top 5 picks, i hope they take them over peterson.
tsiguy96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 08:36 AM   #17
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,212

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsiguy96 View Post
no one is denying what a DL can do and i agree 1000%. but at end of the day, as more information comes out, do we want to potentially draft a tyson jackson? a guy who got hyped up pre draft then does nothing for the team? that is a realistic, scary thought for this team to use a high pick on.
Tyson Jackson wasn't hyped pre draft, he was pretty concensus not a top 10 pick, and it was widely agreed that the only reason Kansas City drafted him was that he was the only 3-4 DE player with talent to go anywhere in the top 2 rounds.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 08:39 AM   #18
gyldenlove
Ring of Famer
 
gyldenlove's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Nęstved, DK
Posts: 11,212

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Spencer Larsen
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsiguy96 View Post
DL, or more specifically ability to generate pressure without sacrificing too much in the back end, is more important than cover corners. but like i said, theres no point in drafting a DL just to draft a DL, unless they feel dareus or fairley can be potential top DL, then maybe it is worth taking peterson. bust rate is high for sure, thats my bigger thing is avoiding picking that bust aka jarvis moss just to fill the position. but if they feel dareus/fairley are guys that are worthy of top 5 picks, i hope they take them over peterson.
Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.
gyldenlove is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 08:43 AM   #19
Drunk Monkey
Mars b****es!!!
 
Drunk Monkey's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,199
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teknic View Post
I hope the Broncos trade back and pick up Von Miller. I think he could be a stud at SLB, and he will also add to the pass rush. I would even consider him at #2 if Fox believes he could be a MLB in his defense.
I am all over Von but not at #2. I hope a situation presents itself where we can trade back and still get him. I think a team needs a dominant MLB to set the tone for the defense. I always felt that leadership on D needed to come from that position.
Drunk Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 08:44 AM   #20
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,509

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.
To be fair, outside of Raji and Suh (who we had no shot at), you'd be hard pressed to name any real impact DLinemen coming out the last two years. Even if he loaded up at the position, we'd likely look just as bad, if not worse today, than we are now.
Beantown Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 09:00 AM   #21
tsiguy96
Ring of Famer
 
tsiguy96's Avatar
 
New to the Forum

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 12,749

Adopt-a-Bronco:
None
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.
but this is what im saying, and i agree you need to address dline, but do you draft dline just to draft it, even if with these particular people the bust potential is high?
tsiguy96 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 09:05 AM   #22
TheReverend
Permanent Facepalm
 
TheReverend's Avatar
 
Not. Too. Shabby.

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 37,672

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Mike Shanahan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsiguy96 View Post
DL, or more specifically ability to generate pressure without sacrificing too much in the back end, is more important than cover corners. but like i said, theres no point in drafting a DL just to draft a DL, unless they feel dareus or fairley can be potential top DL, then maybe it is worth taking peterson. bust rate is high for sure, thats my bigger thing is avoiding picking that bust aka jarvis moss just to fill the position. but if they feel dareus/fairley are guys that are worthy of top 5 picks, i hope they take them over peterson.
Sure it is. You go check the top 10 DT contracts against the top 10 CB ones and get back to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyldenlove View Post
Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.
Resources? The guy signed a bunch of ****ty old players that were never good, and one old one way past his prime and drafted a ****ing midget. It's not like he went out and got good players so I can't imagine how this is a valid point.
TheReverend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 09:06 AM   #23
schaaf
Guest
 

Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by That One Guy View Post
I absolutely agree with him. Everybody wants to recall Dwill being better than he was, in my opinion, but he got hung out to dry by Peyton when Champ was on the other side. That should've been a competent CB group but because there was nobody coming off the line to worry Peyton, they got lit up.

A DL can take over a game by himself. A CB can have a good game but wont win you anything single handedly. They just go elsewhere with the ball.

And quit being a prick to the guy for just expressing his opinion.
First of all I don't know how that is being a prick. And second I'm tired of hearing "a great DL fixes a bad secondary". Nobody argues this, what we are saying is that you can't just take a DL with the second pick to get a DT. He is going to have to be a gamechanger. If Dareus is just gonna be solid or Fairley is going to be a situational DT then we can't use our first pick on them. We can't afford to just get a 'solid' pick because we need DL. We cannot miss on this pick.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 09:08 AM   #24
oubronco
John Foneco !!
 
oubronco's Avatar
 
Mile High Magic

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sooner Country
Posts: 21,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by srphoenix View Post
honestly, this is what we should take most from this article:

Elway's been a pleasant surprise to John Fox.
I noticed this at the Scouting Combine. John Elway, the new vice president of football operations for the Broncos, was everywhere. In the interview rooms talking to players, out in the stadium watching the workouts. Same thing at the league meetings. Chatting with other GMs and coaches. When I sidled up to new Denver coach John Fox to ask him about it, he went on like he'd discovered gold.
It was an off-the-record conversation, but it surprised me how much Fox seemed to legitimately like and admire Elway as a club executive, so I reached out to the coach Sunday to ask if I could write about it. He called back and told me, "It's not BS, what I told you. It's real. This guy works. I have fallen in love with him. A lot of people probably thought it was going to be [just a job with a title] and he wouldn't be all in. But he is.
"We went to a speaking engagement recently in Denver and one of the things John said is, 'I've discovered there's more than one 6 o'clock.' He's in at 7 most days, out at 7. When we met with players, his perspective was valuable; he understands what makes a player better than 90 percent of the people in the league. The bottom line is, he did it right. He played, he was a success in business, he raised his kids and now he's doing something he loves. I think he's going to be good at this.''
Let me make this point about what Fox just said: I've known Fox for a long time. Plenty of times -- and I mean plenty -- I'd ask him a question and he'd say we have to talk off the record for a minute, because he didn't want to lie, nor did he want to mislead me. So I do not take his words as him trying to butter up the boss, or paint a fake picture of the boss for public consumption. We'll see how it works out, but so far, so good.
I like everything I hear so far from interviewing the Head coach to evaluating all the top prospects
oubronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2011, 09:10 AM   #25
Beantown Bronco
Athletic Supporter
 
Beantown Bronco's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mass
Posts: 20,509

Adopt-a-Bronco:
Matt Prater
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by oubronco View Post
I like everything I hear so far from interviewing the Head coach to evaluating all the top prospects
Would be a classic kick to the groin if the one year they finally got their crap together was the one year there was no football.
Beantown Bronco is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:05 PM.


Denver Broncos