MMQB notes

[tsiguy96]

very good article, but some things to note:

8. The fear around Nick Fairley is real. More and more I hear the "one-year wonder'' stuff. Mayock on Fairley: "Two years junior college, one year OK at Auburn, one great year. So what should you think?'' That plus Dareus has passed Fairley on most draftboards.


3. There's a chill around Marcell Dareus. I've been operating under the impression that the best defensive tackle in the draft would go one, two or three, and he probably still will. When scouts and GMs begin to go over players for the fourth and fifth time, and when they parse the words in their individual interviews, they're going to get nervous. Maybe that's what this is with Dareus. I can't put my finger on why, but he's cooling off in the eyes of several people I trust at the top of the draft. I still think he'd be the best pick for defensive-front-needy Denver or No. 3 Buffalo.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1Hri2Lb8g

almost makes me buy into peterson a bit more. if these guys are not going to be elite DTs, or the potential for it (i think fairley has more potential for greatness, dareus more potential to be a solid starter/rotational guy based on a lot of what ive read). might just be worth taking peterson and having new starting CB and taking DL. at this point, ill no longer be disappointed if they take peterson over a DL.

[Broncobiv]

Like several other Mane posters, I am sick of having elite talent at the CB position and watching it get wasted because we have no DL. We need to pressure the QB and stop the run. Dominant DL's make average secondaries look great. It is far tougher to do the opposite.

[schaaf]

Originally Posted by Broncobiv

Like several other Mane posters, I am sick of having elite talent at the CB position and watching it get wasted because we have no DL. We need to pressure the QB and stop the run. Dominant DL's make average secondaries look great. It is far tougher to do the opposite.

there is seriously nobody on this site that argues this with you.. The thing that people are arguing is that you cant just take a D-Lineman with the number 2 overall pick if he is not going to be a complete stud. Most scouts feel that Peterson is going to be a beast in the NFL and most aren't sold on either Dareus or Fairley. Just because thats what you need most doesn't mean we should take him there.

And once again there is more than one move to be made in the offseason.

[HAT]

Liuget will be the best 3DT from this draft when it's all said and done.

[cutthemdown]

They don't know how good they will be. These guys all drooled over Jamarcus Russell and praised Oakland for drafting him.

I will be happy with whoever we draft until they don't play well. Even a QB would make me shut up if he was really good. Sure I want dominant defensive players also. We will draft what 5 people? unless we add some picks with a trade? I'm hoping that whoever they pick are the good ones. We all know what these drafts look like after a few yrs. Bunch of busts on every team.

[schaaf]

Originally Posted by d:-|

Liuget will be the best 3DT from this draft when it's all said and done.

I think you're right... If he is there in the mid twenties I think we need to move up and get him

[Kaylore]

Originally Posted by cutthemdown

They don't know how good they will be. These guys all drooled over Jamarcus Russell and praised Oakland for drafting him.

Who? Peter King? I don't remember King doing this. I remember Mayock saying he wouldn't have gone first if the QB class wasn't so crappy that year. I also remember Greasy Al getting a lot of flack for his pick, but then again, he always does.

[That One Guy]

Originally Posted by schaaf

there is seriously nobody on this site that argues this with you.. The thing that people are arguing is that you cant just take a D-Lineman with the number 2 overall pick if he is not going to be a complete stud. Most scouts feel that Peterson is going to be a beast in the NFL and most aren't sold on either Dareus or Fairley. Just because thats what you need most doesn't mean we should take him there.

And once again there is more than one move to be made in the offseason.

I absolutely agree with him. Everybody wants to recall Dwill being better than he was, in my opinion, but he got hung out to dry by Peyton when Champ was on the other side. That should've been a competent CB group but because there was nobody coming off the line to worry Peyton, they got lit up.

A DL can take over a game by himself. A CB can have a good game but wont win you anything single handedly. They just go elsewhere with the ball.

And quit being a prick to the guy for just expressing his opinion.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

A DL can take over a game by himself. A CB can have a good game but wont win you anything single handedly. They just go elsewhere with the ball.

I'm sure Tom Brady was thinking just that after the 2005 AFC playoff game against us. Even when he tried to go elsewhere with the ball, Champ made him pay.

[teknic]

Originally Posted by Beantown Bronco

I'm sure Tom Brady was thinking just that after the 2005 AFC playoff game against us. Even when he tried to go elsewhere with the ball, Champ made him pay.

In all fairness, a pass rush from the dline was also what stopped Tom Brady from going undefeated in 2007.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by teknic

In all fairness, a pass rush from the dline was also what stopped Tom Brady from going undefeated in 2007.

That was not one guy on the DLine (which is the specific argument I'm responding to above). That was an entire rotation of 5-6 studs hammering him all game long. One great guy on the DLine can be negated at least as easily, if not easier, than one great CB.

[tsiguy96]

no one is denying what a DL can do and i agree 1000%. but at end of the day, as more information comes out, do we want to potentially draft a tyson jackson? a guy who got hyped up pre draft then does nothing for the team? that is a realistic, scary thought for this team to use a high pick on.

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

no one is denying what a DL can do and i agree 1000%. but at end of the day, as more information comes out, do we want to potentially draft a tyson jackson? a guy who got hyped up pre draft then does nothing for the team? that is a realistic, scary thought for this team to use a high pick on.

What a great DL can do is WAY less than people on this site have been giving them credit for.

Also, I think people have really been turning a blind eye to the horrid shelf life of DTs in the current NFL era.

...and that's not even mentioning the ridiculous bust rate.

[teknic]

I hope the Broncos trade back and pick up Von Miller. I think he could be a stud at SLB, and he will also add to the pass rush. I would even consider him at #2 if Fox believes he could be a MLB in his defense.

[srphoenix]

honestly, this is what we should take most from this article:

Elway's been a pleasant surprise to John Fox.
I noticed this at the Scouting Combine. John Elway, the new vice president of football operations for the Broncos, was everywhere. In the interview rooms talking to players, out in the stadium watching the workouts. Same thing at the league meetings. Chatting with other GMs and coaches. When I sidled up to new Denver coach John Fox to ask him about it, he went on like he'd discovered gold.
It was an off-the-record conversation, but it surprised me how much Fox seemed to legitimately like and admire Elway as a club executive, so I reached out to the coach Sunday to ask if I could write about it. He called back and told me, "It's not BS, what I told you. It's real. This guy works. I have fallen in love with him. A lot of people probably thought it was going to be [just a job with a title] and he wouldn't be all in. But he is.
"We went to a speaking engagement recently in Denver and one of the things John said is, 'I've discovered there's more than one 6 o'clock.' He's in at 7 most days, out at 7. When we met with players, his perspective was valuable; he understands what makes a player better than 90 percent of the people in the league. The bottom line is, he did it right. He played, he was a success in business, he raised his kids and now he's doing something he loves. I think he's going to be good at this.''
Let me make this point about what Fox just said: I've known Fox for a long time. Plenty of times -- and I mean plenty -- I'd ask him a question and he'd say we have to talk off the record for a minute, because he didn't want to lie, nor did he want to mislead me. So I do not take his words as him trying to butter up the boss, or paint a fake picture of the boss for public consumption. We'll see how it works out, but so far, so good.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1Hu5IE1XF

[tsiguy96]

Originally Posted by TheReverend

What a great DL can do is WAY less than people on this site have been giving them credit for.

Also, I think people have really been turning a blind eye to the horrid shelf life of DTs in the current NFL era.

...and that's not even mentioning the ridiculous bust rate.

DL, or more specifically ability to generate pressure without sacrificing too much in the back end, is more important than cover corners. but like i said, theres no point in drafting a DL just to draft a DL, unless they feel dareus or fairley can be potential top DL, then maybe it is worth taking peterson. bust rate is high for sure, thats my bigger thing is avoiding picking that bust aka jarvis moss just to fill the position. but if they feel dareus/fairley are guys that are worthy of top 5 picks, i hope they take them over peterson.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

no one is denying what a DL can do and i agree 1000%. but at end of the day, as more information comes out, do we want to potentially draft a tyson jackson? a guy who got hyped up pre draft then does nothing for the team? that is a realistic, scary thought for this team to use a high pick on.

Tyson Jackson wasn't hyped pre draft, he was pretty concensus not a top 10 pick, and it was widely agreed that the only reason Kansas City drafted him was that he was the only 3-4 DE player with talent to go anywhere in the top 2 rounds.

[gyldenlove]

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

DL, or more specifically ability to generate pressure without sacrificing too much in the back end, is more important than cover corners. but like i said, theres no point in drafting a DL just to draft a DL, unless they feel dareus or fairley can be potential top DL, then maybe it is worth taking peterson. bust rate is high for sure, thats my bigger thing is avoiding picking that bust aka jarvis moss just to fill the position. but if they feel dareus/fairley are guys that are worthy of top 5 picks, i hope they take them over peterson.

Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.

[Drunk Monkey]

Originally Posted by teknic

I hope the Broncos trade back and pick up Von Miller. I think he could be a stud at SLB, and he will also add to the pass rush. I would even consider him at #2 if Fox believes he could be a MLB in his defense.

I am all over Von but not at #2. I hope a situation presents itself where we can trade back and still get him. I think a team needs a dominant MLB to set the tone for the defense. I always felt that leadership on D needed to come from that position.

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.

To be fair, outside of Raji and Suh (who we had no shot at), you'd be hard pressed to name any real impact DLinemen coming out the last two years. Even if he loaded up at the position, we'd likely look just as bad, if not worse today, than we are now.

[tsiguy96]

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.

but this is what im saying, and i agree you need to address dline, but do you draft dline just to draft it, even if with these particular people the bust potential is high?

[TheReverend]

Originally Posted by tsiguy96

DL, or more specifically ability to generate pressure without sacrificing too much in the back end, is more important than cover corners. but like i said, theres no point in drafting a DL just to draft a DL, unless they feel dareus or fairley can be potential top DL, then maybe it is worth taking peterson. bust rate is high for sure, thats my bigger thing is avoiding picking that bust aka jarvis moss just to fill the position. but if they feel dareus/fairley are guys that are worthy of top 5 picks, i hope they take them over peterson.

Sure it is. You go check the top 10 DT contracts against the top 10 CB ones and get back to me.

Originally Posted by gyldenlove

Check out where not drafting DLs got Mcdaniels, for all the resources he spent on the secondary he still managed to leave us with the worst defense this team has ever had and the worst in the league. I don't care if we have to go Houston Texans up in this b****, we can not keep ignoring the defensive front, the defense of the Denver Broncos has gone steadily downhill for a lot years now since we lost the last batch of talented defensive linemen we had and no amount of good intentions or talented secondary players including so far 3 future hall of famers have been able to change that.

Resources? The guy signed a bunch of ****ty old players that were never good, and one old one way past his prime and drafted a ****ing midget. It's not like he went out and got good players so I can't imagine how this is a valid point.

[schaaf]

Originally Posted by That One Guy

I absolutely agree with him. Everybody wants to recall Dwill being better than he was, in my opinion, but he got hung out to dry by Peyton when Champ was on the other side. That should've been a competent CB group but because there was nobody coming off the line to worry Peyton, they got lit up.

A DL can take over a game by himself. A CB can have a good game but wont win you anything single handedly. They just go elsewhere with the ball.

And quit being a prick to the guy for just expressing his opinion.

First of all I don't know how that is being a prick. And second I'm tired of hearing "a great DL fixes a bad secondary". Nobody argues this, what we are saying is that you can't just take a DL with the second pick to get a DT. He is going to have to be a gamechanger. If Dareus is just gonna be solid or Fairley is going to be a situational DT then we can't use our first pick on them. We can't afford to just get a 'solid' pick because we need DL. We cannot miss on this pick.

[oubronco]

Originally Posted by srphoenix

honestly, this is what we should take most from this article:

Elway's been a pleasant surprise to John Fox.
I noticed this at the Scouting Combine. John Elway, the new vice president of football operations for the Broncos, was everywhere. In the interview rooms talking to players, out in the stadium watching the workouts. Same thing at the league meetings. Chatting with other GMs and coaches. When I sidled up to new Denver coach John Fox to ask him about it, he went on like he'd discovered gold.
It was an off-the-record conversation, but it surprised me how much Fox seemed to legitimately like and admire Elway as a club executive, so I reached out to the coach Sunday to ask if I could write about it. He called back and told me, "It's not BS, what I told you. It's real. This guy works. I have fallen in love with him. A lot of people probably thought it was going to be [just a job with a title] and he wouldn't be all in. But he is.
"We went to a speaking engagement recently in Denver and one of the things John said is, 'I've discovered there's more than one 6 o'clock.' He's in at 7 most days, out at 7. When we met with players, his perspective was valuable; he understands what makes a player better than 90 percent of the people in the league. The bottom line is, he did it right. He played, he was a success in business, he raised his kids and now he's doing something he loves. I think he's going to be good at this.''
Let me make this point about what Fox just said: I've known Fox for a long time. Plenty of times -- and I mean plenty -- I'd ask him a question and he'd say we have to talk off the record for a minute, because he didn't want to lie, nor did he want to mislead me. So I do not take his words as him trying to butter up the boss, or paint a fake picture of the boss for public consumption. We'll see how it works out, but so far, so good.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...#ixzz1Hu5IE1XF

I like everything I hear so far from interviewing the Head coach to evaluating all the top prospects

[Beantown Bronco]

Originally Posted by oubronco

I like everything I hear so far from interviewing the Head coach to evaluating all the top prospects

Would be a classic kick to the groin if the one year they finally got their crap together was the one year there was no football.